Is Enlightenment a Choice?

[crossfire]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

My most enlightening discoveries were made when I was looking for something else. [Homer Simpson voice] *doh* [/Homer Simpson voice]

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

I would say having an open mind and paying attention would be the best things to cultivate, imo. (This makes sense if you know that you don't know.)

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

Blue eyes on an owl? Really?

 

[godnotgod]

To me, enlightenment would mean you realize you don't have to look for the needle. It's enough to know the needle will be there when you need it.

The key here is to ask the question: 'who is it that is looking?'

 

[shunyadragon]

just read what is written and understand, I have no other suggestion, it is all explained there.

Nothing coherent nor consistent explain, just an anecdotal religious claim based on your belief.

 

[BSM1]

spiritual world, different levels of it, not just afterlife but one that you enter while possessing physical body.

Hmmm....

 

[socharlie]

Nothing coherent nor consistent explain, just an anecdotal religious claim based on your belief.

not my belief but knowing, belief is just your opinion, thank you.

 

[shunyadragon]

not my belief but knowing, belief is just your opinion, thank you.

Your claim of knowing is anecdotal.

 

[Milton Platt]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

Is there a universally accepted definition of "enlightenment"? What exactly are we talking about here?
If one person is enlightened and simply writes a book and everyone reads the book, is everyone then enlightened, and if this is so, then why has it not happened after many thousands of years?
If this is not the case, then what is it that cannot be written down?

 

[Ponder This]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Generally speaking, you can choose to pursue enlightenment... whenever you want to pursue it. As to whether or not that is a moral or ethical choice... who knows?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

Perhaps an experience leads to your enlightenment. As to your reasons for pursuing it... they are your own.

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

As I understand it, no amount of discipline is sufficient. When the monkey let's go of the object of his desire, then he will then be free.

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

What fashion sense?

 

[Sunstone]

As to whether or not that is a moral or ethical choice... who knows?

Fascinating question! Could you elaborate a bit on that?

As I understand it, no amount of discipline is sufficient. When the monkey let's go of the object of his desire, then he will then be free.

Interesting way to look at it. Makes sense too.

What fashion sense?

On the other hand, his fashion sense NEVER makes sense. I happen to know that three years ago, Salix traveled to India to visit a famous ashram. While there, twelve assistant gurus spontaneously and involuntarily reincarnated into different centuries from ours in order to avoid seeing any more of Salix's wardrobe.

 

[allfoak]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Isaiah 28:10

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

[atanu]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

At mind-ego level there is a choice to pursue the path of pleasure or the path of goodness. However, the teaching of a non dual school is as below:

Mandukya Karika
90 One should be conversant, at the very outset, with four things. These are as follows: the things to be avoided, the goal to be realized, the disciplines to be cultivated and the tendencies to be rendered ineffective. Of these four, all except the goal to be realized i.e. the Supreme Reality exist only as products of the imagination.​

 

[Twilight Hue]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

All this time passed so far, and nobody can tell me just what this enlightenment thingamajig is.

 

[Sunstone]

Is there a universally accepted definition of "enlightenment"? What exactly are we talking about here?

I have never heard of a universally accepted definition of "enlightenment". Like almost every word commonly used outside of the sciences and other highly technical disciplines, "enlightenment" seems to have no one fixed definition that everyone accepts as the only legitimate definition. For that reason, it is often useful to others to define how you yourself are using the term. For instance, if you argue that no such thing exists, then it helps if you describe what it is that you believe does not exist.

If one person is enlightened and simply writes a book and everyone reads the book, is everyone then enlightened...

As you know, it has never worked like that.

If this is not the case, then what is it that cannot be written down?

It is sometimes hard to tell when a question is intended to be funny or is merely clumsy. This is one of those times.

 

[shunyadragon]

I do not consider the nature of 'enlightenment' to be remotely related to moral and ethical issues, nor other cultural standards of good and bad or evil, nor Revelation of Truth nor knowledge of one religion nor another. 'Enlightenment is not something on achieves as fallible humans. It is the journey of increasing awareness and quietness of perception without the burdens of all of the above.

"To say yes or no is to immobile on two feet." paraphrased from the Gita.

 

[Sunstone]

All this time passed so far, and nobody can tell me just what this enlightenment thingamajig is.

"You are your own refuge. There is no other refuge."

Years ago, someone quoted to me those words of the Buddha, and then added, "Now, get to work figuring out for yourself what enlightenment means, you lazy bum!"

Good advice to anyone who seeks to "know what enlightenment means", I think.

 

[shunyadragon]

On the path of enlightenment . . .

Anecdotal moment of a little 'satori' or awakening.'

I studied Zazen meditation for a number of years with my studies of Aikido, Iado, and Kendo. A guest instructor came to our class to give to give us an advanced lesson on proper Zazen posture and breathing technique. I became aware that the instructor had a large clock hanging from his sash.

Time to move on. . .

 

[Milton Platt]

I have never heard of a universally accepted definition of "enlightenment". Like almost every word commonly used outside of the sciences and other highly technical disciplines, "enlightenment" seems to have no one fixed definition that everyone accepts as the only legitimate definition. For that reason, it is often useful to others to define how you yourself are using the term. For instance, if you argue that no such thing exists, then it helps if you describe what it is that you believe does not exist.



As you know, it has never worked like that.



It is sometimes hard to tell when a question is intended to be funny or is merely clumsy. This is one of those times.

Neither clumsy nor funny (Well, maybe funny to some). It would seem that eventually everyone should be enlightened (by what ever definition one uses) because the supposed knowledge would be shared. What's the problem with that? If various people have been enlightened during the course of thousands of years, surely whatever there is to be enlightened about would be available in some form for everyone by now.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Does one, at some point in their life, make a moral or ethical conscious choice to become enlightened or to have enlightenment experiences?

Is it experience, mystical or otherwise, that either leads one to the path of enlightenment or to automatically 'become' enlightened? Or does one become familiar with the term and its definition and make the choice to seek enlightenment?

What measure of discipline, if any, in your opinion, does it take to become enlightened or to have an enlightenment experience?

Most importantly, is my fashion sense really all that bad?

The common definition of enlightenment is: The state of understanding something.
So yes, a person can choose to educate themselves in order to fully understand something.

 

[Sunstone]

Neither clumsy nor funny (Well, maybe funny to some).

I confess, the notion that one can "write down what cannot be written down" did indeed strike me as ridiculous. But as a joke, it's a bit of a cliché. I've heard it intentionally stated as a joke dozens of times.

At any rate, let's dissect this frog a bit, so to speak. In the first place, there is more than one kind of knowledge, isn't there? Ask any psychologist and he or she will tell you that only some -- but not all -- knowledge is "symbolic" or "conceptual". Some psychologists will even tell you that most of what you know -- most of what you have learned in life -- is non-symbolic, non-conceptual knowledge.

Now, this non-symbolic, non-conceptual knowledge cannot be transmitted, taught, communicated, shared, etc symbolically, conceptually. All you can do is "point someone to it".

By "point someone to it", I mean you can tell sometimes tell them where or how to find it. For instance, what it feels like to have really great sex is for the most part (but not entirely) non-symbolic, non-conceptual knowledge. You can tell me all day what it's like, and if I have never experienced really great sex, then there are things about it I just won't "get" no matter what you say. Maybe I think I understand you, but once I actually do have some really great sex, then I will realize I didn't understand you much at all. So you can't for the most part tell me what really great sex is like, but you can tell me where to go for it, how to have it, and so forth.

By almost all accounts, enlightenment comes about via an experience or series of experiences that -- among other things -- appear to impart some non-conceptual knowledge. HOWEVER, it is highly debatable just how important that non-conceptual knowledge is to someone's being enlightened. Who knows whether it's key or not? Maybe enlightenment isn't brought about by any kind of knowledge at all, but is instead brought about by some re-wiring of neurons in the brain such that information is processed differently now, processed in an "enlightened" way.

It would seem that eventually everyone should be enlightened (by what ever definition one uses) because the supposed knowledge would be shared.

That strikes me as like saying, "Someday everyone will know what it is like to have a really great orgasm because the knowledge can be shared." Sounds pretty assumptive, if you ask me (not to mention ridiculous). For all we know, only a relatively few people have any chance at all of enlightenment. There does not seem to be any natural law that says you must be able to orgasm, nor does there seem to be a natural law that says you must be able to attain to enlightenment.

 

[crossfire]

All this time passed so far, and nobody can tell me just what this enlightenment thingamajig is.

This:

"D'oh!" (/doʊʔ/ DOH) is a catchphrase used by the fictional character Homer Simpson, from the long-running American animated sitcom The Simpsons (1989–present). It is typically used when Homer injures himself, realizes that he has done something stupid, or when something bad has happened or is about to happen to him.