From the other thread......scripture included. As this is quite long...I'll split it up.
Off to a good start.
Agreed.
Disagree.
Chapter 2 is a "history" or a recap, (not necessarily in chronological order) adding detail that is not recorded in the basic account of what is recorded in Chapter 1. There is only one creation of mankind and the other creatures who inhabit planet Earth....they had one assignment....to reproduce and fill the earth.
Genesis 1:26-28..."Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”
Why would God make two separate creations of humankind? And what makes you think that there are two?
In Genesis ch 2 it says that in the earth, for Adam, "there was no helper as a complement of him. 21 So God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And God built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman, and he brought her to the man. . . . .That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
If other humans existed, then why did God have to create a mate for him?
Genesis ch 3 continues on from ch 2, detailing the unfolding events pertaining to the first humans and their alienation from God. Because of their disobedience, they were expelled from the garden to eke out an existence on cursed ground.
"After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living."
Now if Eve had to become the "mother of everyone living" that rules out any living humans in existence before her. It also makes no sense that Adam could find no mate if there were other women in the world.
Not sure how the genealogy "not leading to Jesus" fits in here...? You see in Genesis 3:15, we have the first prophesy given as a response to the fall of man. It was a veiled reference to the remedy that God would apply, to undo what Adam had done to his offspring, (condemning them to death because of his disobedience.) in alluding to the sacrifice of Jesus. If other humans existed before Adam and Eve, then how did all humans descended from this "one man" inherit his sin? (Romans 5:12) Only Adam's offspring were affected.
The word used here is rendered more correctly as "blameless" rather than "perfect". There were no "perfect" humans descended from Adam. His firstborn son became a murderer, such was the power of sin handed on from his parents.
A man who is "blameless" is one who walks in integrity despite his sinful nature...like Job....and Abraham.
The "sons of God" were angels, materialized in human form, who took the "daughters of men" and produced a hybrid offspring known as the Nephilim. These monstrous half-humans were violent and sex mad and they filled the earth at that time with a situation God would not tolerate, so he brought a drastic end to their existence and all the sinful humans influenced to emulate them.
Which is why it makes no sense for there being other humans before the creation of Adam and Eve.
If you understand the mechanics of the ransom, the one redeeming has to pay the right price to release the one in debt.
What Adam lost for his children was perfect, sinless life in paradise.....Adam eventually paid for his own sin with his own life, but there was no one to pay the redemption price for his children. Perfect, sinless life was lost and a perfect sinless life was required to pay the debt. This is why Jesus had to come from outside the human race....he was perfect and sinless. If other humans had existed apart from Adam then they would not have had the defect of sin that he passed on, so your scenario doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, we are all of necessity descendants of Noah. But how does that fit in with your scenario? Anyone who tries to imply that creation and evolution are somehow the same story are suffering from wishful thinking IMO.
Tom Larkin said:I am a Christian who believes the Bible is the Word of God. I also work in Biotechnology and have a Masters in Biochemical Engineering and I am very familiar with the science behind evolution. After studying the Bible for quite a while, I noticed some consistent patterns and would like to propose that the events of Genesis are sequential and that the men and women created in Chapter one of Genesis were created before Adam and Eve in Chapter 2, which would eliminate the contradiction between the Bible and evolution, the sequence of Chapter 1 is consistent with the evolutionary sequence. My argument below:
G1 - the Bible is the word of God (the current 66 books)
G2 - any scripture must be interpreted in light of all scripture, no scripture may be "privately interpreted"
Off to a good start.
Evidence:
E1: The creation in chapter1 describes the creation of the universe from the Big Bang (let there be light - initially photons only existed prior to even atoms) the creation of the universe, the creation of the stars, earth moon, sea life, plants, animals and humans.
Agreed.
E2: Creation of Chapter 2 describes the creation of Adam, the Garden and the animals.
Disagree.
Chapter 2 is a "history" or a recap, (not necessarily in chronological order) adding detail that is not recorded in the basic account of what is recorded in Chapter 1. There is only one creation of mankind and the other creatures who inhabit planet Earth....they had one assignment....to reproduce and fill the earth.
Genesis 1:26-28..."Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”
Why would God make two separate creations of humankind? And what makes you think that there are two?
In Genesis ch 2 it says that in the earth, for Adam, "there was no helper as a complement of him. 21 So God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And God built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman, and he brought her to the man. . . . .That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
If other humans existed, then why did God have to create a mate for him?
Genesis ch 3 continues on from ch 2, detailing the unfolding events pertaining to the first humans and their alienation from God. Because of their disobedience, they were expelled from the garden to eke out an existence on cursed ground.
"After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living."
Now if Eve had to become the "mother of everyone living" that rules out any living humans in existence before her. It also makes no sense that Adam could find no mate if there were other women in the world.
E3: Throughout the book Genesis, the geneology of the line not leading to Jesus is always given first. This is consistent throughout the book including Seth, Shem, Isaac, Jacob, etc.
Not sure how the genealogy "not leading to Jesus" fits in here...? You see in Genesis 3:15, we have the first prophesy given as a response to the fall of man. It was a veiled reference to the remedy that God would apply, to undo what Adam had done to his offspring, (condemning them to death because of his disobedience.) in alluding to the sacrifice of Jesus. If other humans existed before Adam and Eve, then how did all humans descended from this "one man" inherit his sin? (Romans 5:12) Only Adam's offspring were affected.
E4: In Genesis 6, it states the "sons of God" saw the "daughters of men" and saw that they were fair and took them as wives, but Noah was perfect in his generations.
The word used here is rendered more correctly as "blameless" rather than "perfect". There were no "perfect" humans descended from Adam. His firstborn son became a murderer, such was the power of sin handed on from his parents.
A man who is "blameless" is one who walks in integrity despite his sinful nature...like Job....and Abraham.
The "sons of God" were angels, materialized in human form, who took the "daughters of men" and produced a hybrid offspring known as the Nephilim. These monstrous half-humans were violent and sex mad and they filled the earth at that time with a situation God would not tolerate, so he brought a drastic end to their existence and all the sinful humans influenced to emulate them.
E5: In 1 Cor and in Romans, Paul states we are born in "corruptible seed" through Adam and sown in incorruptible seed through the second Adam, Jesus.
Which is why it makes no sense for there being other humans before the creation of Adam and Eve.
If you understand the mechanics of the ransom, the one redeeming has to pay the right price to release the one in debt.
What Adam lost for his children was perfect, sinless life in paradise.....Adam eventually paid for his own sin with his own life, but there was no one to pay the redemption price for his children. Perfect, sinless life was lost and a perfect sinless life was required to pay the debt. This is why Jesus had to come from outside the human race....he was perfect and sinless. If other humans had existed apart from Adam then they would not have had the defect of sin that he passed on, so your scenario doesn't make sense to me.
E6: All men and women alive today are descended from a common most recent ancestor who was alive when other men and women were alive (Nature 6Aug13 among many other sources)
Yes, we are all of necessity descendants of Noah. But how does that fit in with your scenario? Anyone who tries to imply that creation and evolution are somehow the same story are suffering from wishful thinking IMO.
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