Is This a Test

[ThePainefulTruth]

As a agnostic-deist, it is more accurately my hope, as opposed to my belief, that there is a God and a Hereafter. And if there is, that raises the question, what's the purpose of going through the pain, strife and ultimate death in this world? I personally believe that God created the universe to spawn self-aware creatures to see how they handle free will in their lives here. That's the sole purpose of the universe, to provide us with a stage where we wouldn't be influenced by the knowledge of God's existence. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly.

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test. And most philosophies (that don't believe in predestination) look at it that way, to at lest some degree. So what's the purpose of the test? It's already an enormous assumption, the existence of God, so any further supposition would be 100% pure speculation--but an afterlife would be more consistent with an existent God, than none.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As a agnostic-deist, it is more accurately my hope, as opposed to my belief, that there is a God and a Hereafter. And if there is, that raises the question, what's the purpose of going through the pain, strife and ultimate death in this world? I personally believe that God created the universe to spawn self-aware creatures to see how they handle free will in their lives here. That's the sole purpose of the universe, to provide us with a stage where we wouldn't be influenced by the knowledge of God's existence. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly.

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test. And most philosophies (that don't believe in predestination) look at it that way, to at lest some degree. So what's the purpose of the test? It's already an enormous assumption, the existence of God, so any further supposition would be 100% pure speculation--but an afterlife would be more consistent with an existent God, than none.

... and here's the #1 way that religion devalues the human experience, life, and... everything, really. "This existence has no value in and of itself; it's just the test or practice for what really matters."

I understand how someone who believes in a good god could rationalize themselves to this position, but it's utter poison, IMO.

 

[Sunstone]

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test.

I think you are yet to offer reasons and/or evidence that would warrant that conclusion. Could you do that, now?

 

[WalterTrull]

if there is a God, this must be a test.

Whole lot of presumption behind that statement. Whew. Don't sweat the easy stuff dude. We are. Hey hey. We are!

 

[bobhikes]

Also agnostic but switch between deist/atheist daily. In my Deist version God created this universe to create an equal or equals, whether we are a cog in the wheel or to be the ultimate outcome is unknown. The purpose is to be an equal to God, the path and our part is unknown.

 

[George-ananda]

I see life not as a test but as a play/drama of God. He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself. Why? To experience finite existence that ends in victory liberation for all after eons of challenges and growth.

 

[socharlie]

As a agnostic-deist, it is more accurately my hope, as opposed to my belief, that there is a God and a Hereafter. And if there is, that raises the question, what's the purpose of going through the pain, strife and ultimate death in this world? I personally believe that God created the universe to spawn self-aware creatures to see how they handle free will in their lives here. That's the sole purpose of the universe, to provide us with a stage where we wouldn't be influenced by the knowledge of God's existence. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly.

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test. And most philosophies (that don't believe in predestination) look at it that way, to at lest some degree. So what's the purpose of the test? It's already an enormous assumption, the existence of God, so any further supposition would be 100% pure speculation--but an afterlife would be more consistent with an existent God, than none.

we passing through the worlds and states of consciousness as initiation into the higher worlds. that is how I understand this issue. we stay in the same class until we learn required lesson.

 

[Quintessence]

Reading stuff like this makes me glad I'm part of a life-affirming, world-affirming religion.

 

[Stanyon]

I don't know about the afterlife or the lack of one or the existence/non-existence or truth of any one religions God's or Goddesses, Spirits etc. but I am pretty confident that there is no re-test.

 

[metis]

To me, there are some questions we may not be able to answer, and the OP is one of them, imo. At my ag-- er, I mean maturity--, I've learned that we/I can't know everything and have come to accept that.

 

[`mud]

A test you say, that would Life and it's Stuff.
Life is pretty simple really, it's the Stuff that's a pain in the arse.
Whether or not a `god` excists, this `god` created all the Stuff that surrounds us.
Putting up with all this Stuff is how we deal with the problems that are presented to one.
Has anyone ever noticed that `praying` doesn't help much, if at all ?
Has anyone questioned the fact that `god` is invinsible, maybe transparent to eye.
Tongues in the sky is all we get, if your lucky. Or you're on some kind of meds.
And.....some don't need any meds, they float away on their own, seaching for their saviour.
The universe doesn't have any test for us, except for understanding it, for what it is.
The universal test is how we handle our daily tributes and the rewards given to us.
In the very end of life one will exist in a very different form, as your `Spirit`.
And one will not be aware of the existence of one's lack of being,
one's cognizence will be gone.
The Cosmos will finally take one back, to where we came, the `test` is done.

 

[InChrist]

As a agnostic-deist, it is more accurately my hope, as opposed to my belief, that there is a God and a Hereafter. And if there is, that raises the question, what's the purpose of going through the pain, strife and ultimate death in this world? I personally believe that God created the universe to spawn self-aware creatures to see how they handle free will in their lives here. That's the sole purpose of the universe, to provide us with a stage where we wouldn't be influenced by the knowledge of God's existence. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly.

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test. And most philosophies (that don't believe in predestination) look at it that way, to at lest some degree. So what's the purpose of the test? It's already an enormous assumption, the existence of God, so any further supposition would be 100% pure speculation--but an afterlife would be more consistent with an existent God, than none.

I believe this life is a test to determine who we will follow and trust...
-the Creator God who is the eternal source of life, love, goodness, and beauty, or
-a created being who is not God, who is filled with self-exalting iniquity, a murderer and deceiver.
Since I believe God is omnipotent He already knows, but the test(s) are for our benefit and awareness, to reveal our motives and character and show where our love and loyalty lies.

 

[Nakosis]

As a agnostic-deist, it is more accurately my hope, as opposed to my belief, that there is a God and a Hereafter. And if there is, that raises the question, what's the purpose of going through the pain, strife and ultimate death in this world? I personally believe that God created the universe to spawn self-aware creatures to see how they handle free will in their lives here. That's the sole purpose of the universe, to provide us with a stage where we wouldn't be influenced by the knowledge of God's existence. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly.

So yes, if there is a God, this must be a test. And most philosophies (that don't believe in predestination) look at it that way, to at lest some degree. So what's the purpose of the test? It's already an enormous assumption, the existence of God, so any further supposition would be 100% pure speculation--but an afterlife would be more consistent with an existent God, than none.

It's as good as a story as any, based on a lack of any knowledge.

We don't know the truth of any of this, so you assume some truth and create a story based on your assumptions.

The truth can be assumed to be anything and from there you can see where your assumption take you.

It's OK I guess. I do the same. It's just best, IMO, to realize that none of it may have anything to do with what is true. With that established, create whatever truth for the universe that takes you fancy. Just don't expect anyone else to give it any credibility.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

If there IS a god, therefore...life is a test...

If there is NO god, therefore life ISN'T a test...

although logically neither of the two conclusions follows from the alternative propositions. Life might or might not be a test if there is a God...and the lack of God doesn't automatically mean that life isn't a test set up by something less that God.

I prefer my approach: life is a Great Mystery. I can study it to find out how it seems to work (science), I can create interpretations of my understanding and appreciation of it (art), but in the end, the best I can do is experience life...

That's my approach, at least.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

... and here's the #1 way that religion devalues the human experience, life, and... everything, really. "This existence has no value in and of itself; it's just the test or practice for what really matters."

I understand how someone who believes in a good god could rationalize themselves to this position, but it's utter poison, IMO.

The proposition is, what IF there is a God? What do you suggest. And if you're just gonna go with the baseless claim that there is no God (even though there's no explanation either way for the universe), I can understand why you'd just want to cop out.

How can you say there's no value in training and testing? We're doing it now, in all societies, without any knowledge at all of a reward anywhere else but here. You continue to argue against the revealed religions.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I think you are yet to offer reasons and/or evidence that would warrant that conclusion. Could you do that, now?

Why would God put us here and then not interact with us?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Whole lot of presumption behind that statement. Whew. Don't sweat the easy stuff dude. We are. Hey hey. We are!

Yes indeed, and the difference for us in our lives between atheism and deism is not discernible. But hope is still an option.

Also agnostic but switch between deist/atheist daily. In my Deist version God created this universe to create an equal or equals, whether we are a cog in the wheel or to be the ultimate outcome is unknown. The purpose is to be an equal to God, the path and our part is unknown.

Equal with God? Not in this life, or the next life either. There can only be one omnipotent God, though we may become a part of it. But I think the Bible puts it pretty well, we are (evolved) in It's image--not an anthropomorphic image, but a spiritual, fully self-aware consciousness image.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I see life not as a test but as a play/drama of God. He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself. Why? To experience finite existence that ends in victory liberation for all after eons of challenges and growth.

I'd put it another way, feeling the surprises, disappointments and joys of self-aware individuals, through those taking the test, and ostensibly, through those who have passed it.

Reading stuff like this makes me glad I'm part of a life-affirming, world-affirming religion.

So, what then, you're a deist.

To me, there are some questions we may not be able to answer, and the OP is one of them, imo. At my ag-- er, I mean maturity--, I've learned that we/I can't know everything and have come to accept that.

I said we can't answer it, the only difference is hope. As for accepting doubt, absolutely, and the general inability to accept that is where all the revealed religions came from. I've just narrowed it down to two possibilities, this one dealing the a non-interactive God, the only one possible given the evidence, or lack of it.

It's as good as a story as any, based on a lack of any knowledge.

We don't know the truth of any of this, so you assume some truth and create a story based on your assumptions.

The truth can be assumed to be anything and from there you can see where your assumption take you.

It's OK I guess. I do the same. It's just best, IMO, to realize that none of it may have anything to do with what is true. With that established, create whatever truth for the universe that takes you fancy. Just don't expect anyone else to give it any credibility.

If there's nothing then.... If there is a God, what better scenario can you come up with?

If there IS a god, therefore...life is a test...

If there is NO god, therefore life ISN'T a test...

although logically neither of the two conclusions follows from the alternative propositions. Life might or might not be a test if there is a God...and the lack of God doesn't automatically mean that life isn't a test set up by something less that God.

I prefer my approach: life is a Great Mystery. I can study it to find out how it seems to work (science), I can create interpretations of my understanding and appreciation of it (art), but in the end, the best I can do is experience life...

That's my approach, at least.

Well, the faith based atheist contingent is heard from.

 

[bobhikes]

Equal with God? Not in this life, or the next life either. There can only be one omnipotent God, though we may become a part of it. But I think the Bible puts it pretty well, we are (evolved) in It's image--not an anthropomorphic image, but a spiritual, fully self-aware consciousness image.

We are not talking about the same God here. My God would either be indifferent to religion or support all religions. Humans do not have to be near the final stage. In fact we may just be a part and the universe itself is going to become another god. It just makes sense, if there is a god that has lived forever that god's desire will grow from loneliness. Creation of an equal would be challenging and desirable.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Well, the faith based atheist contingent is heard from.

No, that would be the agnostic contingent.