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Who was, and is the beast right now?

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
See, now if you had read Scripture, you would have known that Jerusalem will have to be "captured" (Zechariah 14:1-3) before the "gathered" (Revelation 16:13-19) nations are "crushed" (Daniel 2:35) & (Zechariah 14:12), and all the surviving nations start keeping the statute of God, which requires them to keep the feast of Boots (Zechariah 14:16). As for Daniel being "apocrypha", well, there are three chapters which are not in the Protestant bible, which are considered such, but I have not referred to them. As for the Knesset being secular, well, Jerusalem hasn't been "captured" yet, and king David doesn't rule at this time (Ezekiel 37:24-25). Give it some time. At that time, the "Word of God" will smite the nations, and rule them with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15). Why push your luck. Revelation is not about your walk, it is about the end of your walk down the "broad" "way" to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). It is about the "awesome day of the LORD" when those with the mark, the mark of the dragon, given to the 7th head of the beast and his false prophet, will get to drink the wine of the "wrath of God". That wine has probably been in the bottle past it's expiration date.

In Revelation 16:13, John saw 3 unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon"

Do you know what those 3 unclean spirits are?
Where in the book of Revelation tell's what those 3 unclean spirits are?

Do you know what the mark
and number 666 of the beast is ?

Where in the book of Revelation, will give what the mark and number 666, of the beast is ?

In Revelation 16:16--"And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon"

Do you know when this takes place ?

Where in the book of Revelation tell's when this takes place ?
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
...but supposing I have read scripture and am just smarter than you or limiting the scripture less in some way? Its not so hard to imagine. I guess for you it is?

There you go again asserting Daniel as history and not only as history but in addition as future history.

Hold on. There is a giant leap here in which you say Zechariah is written about our time. Recall it is written over 3500 years ago, and since that time the city of Jerusalem becomes Jewish again and control is recovered under the Maccabees, but I guess that time period is immaterial and not mentionable by Zechariah? Does Zechariah say nothing about that? Too unimportant? Then control was lost again after about 150 years or so. Finally Jewish control was decimated by the Romans until very recently. So...what happens during the period of the Maccabees? Are you saying this prophecy in Zechariah isn't written about that? Where are all of the nations that are fighting against Jerusalem today? Name them, because I am not seeing that many -- Lebanon maybe or Hamas perhaps. What about USA? We are Israel's ally and can blow anybody to smithereens. Zechariah 14:11 says Jerusalem will be inhabited and never again destroyed, but since the time of the prophecy and since the time of the Maccabeans it has been destroyed...two or more times. Tell me in what way did the LORD fight, feet standing on the Mt. of Olives, when the Romans came to take Jerusalem? Clearly it was not in the way you imagine. What about when the Crusaders came to Jerusalem? In what way did the LORD fight, feet standing upon the Mt. Olive? When all the nations surrounded Jerusalem then during the Middle Ages? So at this time when almost no nations are arrayed with armies around that physical city, this is the time you think to say that the nations are arrayed against it; and this time you say the LORD will with physical feet descend upon the Mt. Olives. Nevermind all of the speeches in the Bible which you say I have not read. Nevermind the HUNDRED TIMES that we are told that our weapons are not carnal -- but for you its got to be about feet and the dividing of a mountain. Nevermind that in the Bible (which I have read) plagues are not necessarily about illness but can be about spiritual illnesses and blindness. When Zechariah says ever pot will be Holy to the LORD do you then think he is talking about tea kettles, too? I wonder if you have even the least claim to talk about which of us has read the Bible.

Yes I can agree, 2nd pillow, hasn't even explain what those 3 unclean spirits are in
Revelation 16:13 that like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon are or where in the book of Revelation tell's what they are. He gives Revelation 16:13, but don't explain what they are or where in Revelation tell's what they are.


Much less, hasn't explained when
Armageddon takes place or show where this fits into the book of Revelation ?

2nd pillow talks like the beast is already
here to day, the beast he's referring to, is not here yet, That's still future. There's other Prophecy's in the book of Revelation that are to be fulfilled. Before the beast takes place.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Who was, and is the beast right now?

The “beast” of Revelation 13:1, with “seven heads” is the same beast as Revelation 13:2, which is the beast of Daniel 7:3-8, which is representative of Babylon through to Rome. The “beast” of Revelation 13:4, is “one of his heads which had been slain” (Revelation 13:3), and was healed, and to have “authority for forty two months” (Rev 13:5), the length of the reign of Julius Caesar as a dictator. He “made war with the saints” (Rev 13:7), as one of his initial co rulers of the Roman Republic, Pompey, destroyed Jerusalem. Julius Augustus Caesar was slain by the Senate, yet was healed as the Augustus Caesars, the 6th head of the beast, who also went on to rule as gods. He made war with the saints through to the 10th horn of Augustus Caesars, Titus, who destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

The “dragon” is the devil, Satan, and the Serpent (Revelation 20:2), who gave his authority to the beast (Rev 13:4). The dragon rules the word through the beast. (John 14:30)

The 7th head of the beast was the “another” (king) of Daniel 7:24-26). He is the “beast with two horns like a lamb”, Constantine, who instituted the Roman Church through his convened Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. Constantine went on to “conquer” the world through the symbol of the cross, his labarum, which was the vision given to him by Sol Invictus in 312 A.D. In effect, he conquered the world through the false gospel of the cross by way of the false prophet Paul, one of the “horns like a lamb”. The 8th head of the beast will be the one who “was, is not, is himself also an 8th” (Rev 17:11) and is the Emperor/Dictator Julius Caesar, in the form of a “demon spirit” (Rev 16:13-19).
The 10 horns of the 8th head will hate the “harlot” who is Judah/Jews, and will persecute her and burn her with fire Rev 17:11). That would be the kingdoms which persecuted the Jews, from Germany, Russia, France, Spain, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, etc., and they will eventually be “crushed” (Daniel 2:35 & 44), and the “dragon” will be chained in the abyss (Revelation 20:1-3).

Seeing you gave Revelation 16:13-16,
can you explain what the 3 unclean spirits that came out of the frogs mouths are, And where in the book of Revelation will tell what those 3 unclean spirits are.
Can you do this, since you made mention of Revelation 16:13 and show in the book of Revelation where it shows what these 3 unclean spirits are. Can you do that?

And you also made mention about Armageddon in Revelation 16:16, So can you give when this takes place in the book of Revelation. And What is happening that leads up to Armageddon, in the book of Revelation.

You know if you Quote things from the book of Revelation, then you should also be able to give in the book of Revelation where it said, what your saying.
So where in Revelation does it tell what those
3 unclean spirits are. That are given in Rev 16:13
And where in Revelation does it tell, what is happening that leads up to Armageddon.
In Rev 16:16
Can you do that ?
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The “beast with two horns like a lamb”, Constantine, is a Roman Emperor. Your false prophet Paul, is an avowed Roman. The beast of Revelation 13:3-4, is Roman. The Roman church, based on the idolatry of the gods of Babylon, in the form of the sun god Bel/Sol Invictus, the “dragon”/devil, gave his authority to the beasts, which includes Rome.

Can you show exactly where in the book of Revelation will say, what your saying, that the beast with two horns as being Constantine, where is that written at in the book of Revelation.

You know if you state something from the book of Revelation, then your called to show where in the book of Revelation where it says what your saying.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Can you show exactly where in the book of Revelation will say, what your saying, that the beast with two horns as being Constantine, where is that written at in the book of Revelation.

You know if you state something from the book of Revelation, then your called to show where in the book of Revelation where it says what your saying.

The book of Revelation was written during the period of the Roman empire. Revelation 17:10 The book of Revelation was written during the reign of the Augustus Caesars, which were the 6th head of the beast, who had 10 horns. Now if you had "understood" Daniel 7:23 & Daniel 12:10, your would have known that. Now Constantine, was the "another" of Daniel 7:24, who was the 7th head of the beast (Revelation 17:10), who will "wear down the saints of the Highest One". This was done through the agency of Constantine's instituted Roman church by way of its dogmas, decrees, and the power of the beast of Rome, upon whom she sat (Revelation 17:3). Not that you would be able to understand either Daniel (Daniel 12:10), or Revelation, which requires the agency of the Spirit of revelation, but as the day of the LORD, is just behind the door, I wouldn't want it said that you were totally in the dark.

New American Standard Bible Revelation 17:10
and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Seeing you gave Revelation 16:13-16,
can you explain what the 3 unclean spirits that came out of the frogs mouths are, And where in the book of Revelation will tell what those 3 unclean spirits are.
Can you do this, since you made mention of Revelation 16:13 and show in the book of Revelation where it shows what these 3 unclean spirits are. Can you do that?

And you also made mention about Armageddon in Revelation 16:16, So can you give when this takes place in the book of Revelation. And What is happening that leads up to Armageddon, in the book of Revelation.

You know if you Quote things from the book of Revelation, then you should also be able to give in the book of Revelation where it said, what your saying.
So where in Revelation does it tell what those
3 unclean spirits are. That are given in Rev 16:13
And where in Revelation does it tell, what is happening that leads up to Armageddon.
In Rev 16:16
Can you do that ?

You must be reading from a JW or KJ bible. The reason the "three unclean spirits like frogs" came out of the beast, and the false prophet, is because they are both dead, and their "demon spirits" are all that are left. As for the dragon, well his spirit is apparently "unclean" as well. Anyway, the authority of the beast, comes from the dragon (Revelation 13:4). We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast, the one that was, is not during the period of the 6th head of the beast, which would make it the 5th head of the beast, Julius Augustus Caesar, the head that was slain, and healed as the Augustus Caesars.

Oh yeah, Har-Magedon takes place when the nations are gathered against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-3) to the "valley of judgment"/Har-Magedon (Joel 3:2), which follows the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem (Joel 3:1-2) & (Revelation 16:16). At that time the nations/Gentiles "where I have scattered you (Jacob), described in Jeremiah 30:11, will be I completely "destroy" (Daniel 2:35 & 45).

Revelation 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The book of Revelation was written during the period of the Roman empire. Revelation 17:10 The book of Revelation was written during the reign of the Augustus Caesars, which were the 6th head of the beast, who had 10 horns. Now if you had "understood" Daniel 7:23 & Daniel 12:10, your would have known that. Now Constantine, was the "another" of Daniel 7:24, who was the 7th head of the beast (Revelation 17:10), who will "wear down the saints of the Highest One". This was done through the agency of Constantine's instituted Roman church by way of its dogmas, decrees, and the power of the beast of Rome, upon whom she sat (Revelation 17:3). Not that you would be able to understand either Daniel (Daniel 12:10), or Revelation, which requires the agency of the Spirit of revelation, but as the day of the LORD, is just behind the door, I wouldn't want it said that you were totally in the dark.

New American Standard Bible Revelation 17:10
and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.


Hey look I didn't ask you for all that.

I ask you a simple question

Can you explain what the 3 unclean spirits like frogs are in Revelation 16:13, and where in Revelation it can be found the explains what the 3 unclean spirits are.

Can you explain what is happening that leads up to the battle of Armageddon,
in Revelation 16:16.
And where this can be found in Revelation.

And don't come back with alot of other books of the bible, I ask you to show in the book of Revelation where all these can be found in the book of Revelation.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
You must be reading from a JW or KJ bible. The reason the "three unclean spirits like frogs" came out of the beast, and the false prophet, is because they are both dead, and their "demon spirits" are all that are left. As for the dragon, well his spirit is apparently "unclean" as well. Anyway, the authority of the beast, comes from the dragon (Revelation 13:4). We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast, the one that was, is not during the period of the 6th head of the beast, which would make it the 5th head of the beast, Julius Augustus Caesar, the head that was slain, and healed as the Augustus Caesars.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

So you say, Now that's most ridiculous stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Are you sure your not having a dream or got hit in the head to come up with these things.

Is it any wonder why people laugh at people who come up with such things, frogs coming out of dead demons, that's to laughable.and ridiculous.
You really got to be kidding.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Hey look I didn't ask you for all that.

I ask you a simple question

Can you explain what the 3 unclean spirits like frogs are in Revelation 16:13, and where in Revelation it can be found the explains what the 3 unclean spirits are.

Can you explain what is happening that leads up to the battle of Armageddon,
in Revelation 16:16.
And where this can be found in Revelation.

And don't come back with alot of other books of the bible, I ask you to show in the book of Revelation where all these can be found in the book of Revelation.

Take a breath, read the post again, and if that doesn't help, there is not much I can do for you. Unclean spirits come from unclean dead corpses. In this case the corpses of the "false prophet", and the "beast". Paul and Julius Caesar are both dead, and only like the dragon, exist in an "unclean" spiritual form. That is why they gravitate to unclean people and swine as hosts. Hussein Obama would be a prime example, who is led by the unclean spirits, and attempted to gather the nations against Jerusalem (Revelation 16:13-16). Well actually he is still trying to take down the U.S. and Israel.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Take a breath, read the post again, and if that doesn't help, there is not much I can do for you. Unclean spirits come from unclean dead corpses. In this case the corpses of the "false prophet", and the "beast". Paul and Julius Caesar are both dead, and only like the dragon, exist in an "unclean" spiritual form. That is why they gravitate to unclean people and swine as hosts. Hussein Obama would be a prime example, who is led by the unclean spirits, and attempted to gather the nations against Jerusalem (Revelation 16:13-16). Well actually he is still trying to take down the U.S. and Israel.


You know what, that's not only ridiculous, And its the most stupidest thing that I have ever heard of.
Your to far out in La,La Land
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
So you say, Now that's most ridiculous stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Are you sure your not having a dream or got hit in the head to come up with these things.

Is it any wonder why people laugh at people who come up with such things, frogs coming out of dead demons, that's to laughable.and ridiculous.
You really got to be kidding.

I doubt even if the KJ bible reads "frogs coming out of dead demons". Demons don't die, and the verse reads "unclean spirits like frogs". Demons are the unclean spirits of the deceased children of the heavenly watchers and the daughters of men (see the book of Enoch).
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I doubt even if the KJ bible reads "frogs coming out of dead demons". Demons don't die, and the verse reads "unclean spirits like frogs". Demons are the unclean spirits of the deceased children of the heavenly watchers and the daughters of men (see the book of Enoch).

In case you haven't realized, in the book of Revelation does tell what those 3 unclean spirits like frogs are.

So what you have given about those 3 unclean spirits like frogs.

Don't compare to what the book of Revelation explains what they are.

So therefore that shows all your doing, is saying things that the book of Revelation doesn't even support.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
In case you haven't realized, in the book of Revelation does tell what those 3 unclean spirits like frogs are.

So what you have given about those 3 unclean spirits like frogs.

Don't compare to what the book of Revelation explains what they are.

So therefore that shows all your doing, is saying things that the book of Revelation doesn't even support.

I don't know whether you are being obtuse, or simply trying to obfuscate. What ever you are trying to do, it ain't working.

Revelation 16:13-14 13Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The “beast with two horns like a lamb”, Constantine, is a Roman Emperor. Your false prophet Paul, is an avowed Roman. The beast of Revelation 13:3-4, is Roman. The Roman church, based on the idolatry of the gods of Babylon, in the form of the sun god Bel/Sol Invictus, the “dragon”/devil, gave his authority to the beasts, which includes Rome.
Yes, "good" argument. Because Paul happened to be born into a city that had automatic Roman citizenship therefore Paul is bad? Just ignore how Paul was beheaded by the Romans because the testimony of the Yeshua ha Mashiach.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Yes, "good" argument. Because Paul happened to be born into a city that had automatic Roman citizenship therefore Paul is bad? Just ignore how Paul was beheaded by the Romans because the testimony of the Yeshua ha Mashiach.

As for Paul being "beheaded", give me a break. Nero's was known for strangling his problems or having his "dagger men" stab them with short swords/daggers. If Paul hadn't been a Roman citizen, Paul most likely would have been torn apart by dogs, crucified, or burned alive.. Paul and his relationship to Nero went south when Herod's relationship with Nero tanked. Any Roman citizenship of Paul, would have most likely come from his relationship to Herod. Paul had no direct knowledge of the testimony of Yeshua, he was too busy persecuting the messengers that God sent to Jerusalem. Oh, yeah, by the way, those who claim a relationship with the persecutors of the messengers of God, are held guilty for the blood of all the righteous shed on earth (Mt 23:25-35). Being as you apparently have the "mark of the beast", I am thinking that you might be drinking the wine of the wrath of God (Rev 14:9-10). You might want to think less about saving Paul, who is already dead, and deal with what is just behind the door (Mt 24:33). Paul's day is over (Mt 13:39-42).

As for Paul (Zech 11:10) being "bad", that is like saying that Judas Iscariot (Zech 11:12-13) is "bad". They, like Satan, all had a role to play.

According to the historian Tacitus, Christians during Nero’s time (at least) were mainly torn apart by dogs, crucified, or burned alive. Were Christians really thrown to the lions?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I don't know whether you are being obtuse, or simply trying to obfuscate. What ever you are trying to do, it ain't working.

Revelation 16:13-14 13Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
There are people who will go into the bible and pick out one or two verses of the bible and try to apply it to someone or something else in the Bible.

Heck anyone could do that, without knowing what the verse is actually about.

That's like taking Revelation 16:13 about the false prophet and saying this is Paul.
Without giving the Chapter and Verses in Revelation that plainly States the false prophet as being Paul.

All you have is someone's accusations.which proves nothing.Unless they can provide the Chapter and Verses in Revelation that plainly States that the false prophet is actually Paul

Just because a person accuses someone, that's not enough proof to hang a person on. There has to be evidence showing to prove their case. Without evidence they have nothing, only their accusations.

So where's the evidence in Revelation that's written that states Paul as being the false prophet.

Let's for say, someone accuses you of robbing a bank, do their accusation mean you did, of course not, it's just their accusation without proof. Which stands to be nothing without actual proof.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
There are people who will go into the bible and pick out one or two verses of the bible and try to apply it to someone or something else in the Bible.

Heck anyone could do that, without knowing what the verse is actually about.

That's like taking Revelation 16:13 about the false prophet and saying this is Paul.
Without giving the Chapter and Verses in Revelation that plainly States the false prophet as being Paul.

All you have is someone's accusations.which proves nothing.Unless they can provide the Chapter and Verses in Revelation that plainly States that the false prophet is actually Paul

Just because a person accuses someone, that's not enough proof to hang a person on. There has to be evidence showing to prove their case. Without evidence they have nothing, only their accusations.

So where's the evidence in Revelation that's written that states Paul as being the false prophet.

Let's for say, someone accuses you of robbing a bank, do their accusation mean you did, of course not, it's just their accusation without proof. Which stands to be nothing without actual proof.

Now if you actually knew who the "beast with two horns like a lamb" was (Rev 13:11), then you wouldn't be acting like you knew anything, and would be looking for a rock to hide under (Rev 6:12-17).
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Now if you actually knew who the "beast with two horns like a lamb" was (Rev 13:11), then you wouldn't be acting like you knew anything, and would be looking for a rock to hide under (Rev 6:12-17).


I don't know why you even bother, I'm still waiting for you to prove to where in the book of Revelation, where it's written in what Chapter and Verses where it's said Paul as being the false prophet. Where's the Chapter and Verses to prove what you say. All you do is bring accusations, which doesn't stand, without Chapters and Verses in Revelation, saying Paul being the false prophet.
 
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