Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[sandy whitelinger]

The only things left to happen is the removal of all the ungodly, and the resurrection of the saints...

I've known since birth, sent just before it, in an effort to warn everyone they've already been deceived, and since most people ignore me, it will happen anyway.

Christ returns at the midnight hour (Matthew 25:1-13, Mark 13:35-37) as a thief (Revelation 3:3, Revelation 16:15), to fight with the words from his mouth how people are not following what was taught.

In my opinion.

What about, "As it was in the days of Noah..." Back then there was only one righteous man. Maybe we have a few more than that right now. Also, what if He tarries?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

...and since most people ignore me, it will happen anyway.

In my opinion.

This makes you more like Jeremiah. Nobody listened to him either.

 

[wizanda]

what if He tarries?

Not sure you meant to quote this:

Habakkuk 2:3 "For the vision is yet for the appointed time; It hastens toward the goal and it will not fail. Though it tarries, wait for it; For it will certainly come, it will not delay.

What were you meaning?

What about, "As it was in the days of Noah..." Back then there was only one righteous man. Maybe we have a few more than that right now.

That was a good verse to quote:

Luke 17:26-30 As it was in the days of Noah, even so will it be also in the days of the Son of Man. (27) They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ship, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (28) Likewise, even as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from the sky, and destroyed them all. (30) It will be the same way in the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

This makes you more like Jeremiah. Nobody listened to him either.

More people listen to Jeremiah than Yeshua amazingly; Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin as evil for murdering the prophets as atoning sacrifices...

Thus now the whole world thinks Yeshua came to die as a sin sacrifice, due to Pharisaic Judaism making up the writings of John, Paul, and Simon.

Now the bit that i don't get is why send me when we knew people wouldn't listen, why have the textual evidence there to show them where they're not logical...

Is it possible to turn it all around, as the verse you first quoted implies that riddle shall be solved; now i understand the riddle, and am willing to share with the world, yet only if we can get people to listen respectfully.

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And now you step into seriously dodgy ground, because you're outright calling the Shia Islamic faith 'barbarian'.

That is a typical example of what Bahai 'peace seeking' really is. Shocking.

Read what they did. How else do you describe bloodthirsty Mobs.

“...Amongst the documents referring to the Bábís in my possession is a manuscript copy of an article in German published on October 17, 1852 in No. 291 of some German or Austrian newspaper of which, unhappily, the name is not noted. I think that I received it a good many years ago from the widow of the late Dr. Polak, an Austrian doctor, who was a physician to Násiri’d-Dín Sháh at the beginning of his reign, and who is the author of a valuable book and several smaller treatises on Persia and matters connected therewith. It is chiefly based on a letter written on August 29, 1852, by an Austrian officer, Captain von Goumoens, who was in the Sháh’s service, but who was so disgusted, and horrified at the cruelties he was compelled to witness that he sent in his resignation. The translation of this article is as follows:

‘Some days ago we mentioned the attempt made on the life of the Sháh of Persia on the occasion of a hunting-party. The conspirators, as is well known, belonged to the Bábís, a religious sect. Concerning this sect and the repressive measures adopted against it, the letter of Austrian Captain von Goumoens lately published in the “Soldier’s Friend” (Soldatenfreund) contains interesting disclosures, and elucidates to some extent the attempt in question. This letter runs as follows: “Tihrán, August 29, 1852. Dear Friend, My last letter of the 20th inst. mentioned the attempt on the King. I will now communicate to you the result of the interrogation to which the two criminals were subjected. In spite of the terrible tortures inflicted, the examination extorted no comprehensive confession; the lips of the fanatics remained closed, even when by means of red-hot pincers and limb-rending screws they sought to discover the chief conspirator…. But follow me, my friend, you who lay claim to a heart and European ethics, follow me to the unhappy ones who, with gouged-out eyes, must eat, on the scene of the deed, without any sauce, their own amputated ears; or whose teeth are torn out with inhuman violence by the hand of the executioner; or whose bare skulls are simply crushed by blows from a hammer; or where the bazar is illuminated with unhappy victims, because on right and left the people dig deep holes in their breasts and shoulders and insert burning wicks in the wounds. I saw some dragged in chains through the bazar preceded by a military band, in whom these wicks had burned so deep that now the fat flickered convulsively in the wound like a newly-extinguished lamp. Not seldom it happens that the unwearying ingenuity of the Orientals leads to fresh tortures. They will skin the soles of the Bábí’s feet, soak the wounds in boiling oil, shoe the foot like the hoof of a horse, and compel the victim to run. No cry escaped from the victim’s breast; the torment is endured in dark silence by the numbed sensation of the fanatic; now he must run; the body cannot endure what the soul has endured; he falls. Give him the coup de grace! Put him out of his pain! No! The executioner swings the whip, and—I myself have had to witness it—the unhappy victim of hundredfold tortures and runs! This is the beginning of the end. As for the end itself, they hang the scorched and perforated bodies by their hands and feet to a tree head downwards, and now every Persian may try his marksmanship to heart’s content from a fixed but not too proximate distance on the noble quarry placed at his disposal. I saw corpses torn by nearly 150 bullets…. When I read over again what I have written I am overcome by the thought that those who are with you in our dearly beloved Austria may doubt the full truth of the picture, and accuse me of exaggeration. Would to God that I had not lived to see it! But by the duties of my profession I was unhappily often, only too often, a witness of these abominations. At present I never leave my house, in order not to meet with fresh scenes of horror. After their death the Bábís are hacked in two and either nailed to the city gate, or cast out into the plain as food for the dogs and jackals. Thus the punishment extends even beyond the limits which bound this bitter world, for Musulmans who are not buried have no right to enter the Prophet’s Paradise. Since my whole soul revolts against such infamy, against such abominations as recent times, according to the judgment of all, present, I will no longer maintain my connection with the scene of such crimes.”’ (He goes on to say that he has already asked for his discharge, but has not yet received an answer.)” (E. G. Browne’s “Materials for the Study of the Bábí Religion,” pp. 267–71.)

Regards Tony

 

[wizanda]

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

Like the bit that gets me the most, is the complete lack of knowledge on what Yeshua came to do based on the Tanakh prophecies...

It is more a surface view taken from Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism, which are both fake, and then used to establish the beliefs of Baha'i.

Like having a quick look on if Baha'i accepted Yeshua's death as an atoning sacrifice found this:

"The divine Prophets came to establish the unity of the Kingdom in human hearts. All of them proclaimed the glad tidings of the divine bestowals to the world of mankind. All brought the same message of divine love to the world. Jesus Christ gave His life upon the cross for the unity of mankind. Those who believed in Him likewise sacrificed life, honor, possessions, family, everything, that this human world might be released from the hell of discord, enmity and strife.
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 5)

Yeshua came to set a Snare (Isaiah 8 - Isaiah 28), and put a Curse on Israel because of his death (Malachi 4:5-6, Zechariah 11), and eventually remove all the ungodly because of it (Isaiah 34, Isaiah 24).

Sorry unless someone can show us otherwise, currently finding that Baha'i is for simple people; who want to think the world will get better by wishful thinking, and ignoring contexts.

In my opinion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With the following sentence, seems we don't agree 100%. I am also of the mind that Jesus has not returned, and will never return; as stated, the dead don't return.


No, the events are nowhere near able to be called "nearly identical". Jesus was arrested and crucified. The bab was hung from a rope and shot at. When the shots broke the rope he tried to flee, but he was brought back and shot proper. Being accused of apostasy is the only connection between the two, but you might as well compare every apostate every slain to Jesus at that point.


Then it's not Jesus returning.

The signs are all there in the Bible that He has returned. But that doesn’t mean people won’t reject His second coming just like they rejected His first appearance.

Maybe you’re not convinced. I’m absolutely certain and sure of it. Just how much have you investigated and with an open and unbiased mind?

 

[wizanda]

The signs are all there in the Bible that He has returned.

Show these signs you think have been fulfilled please, and we can debate each based on scripture.

In my opinion.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Not sure you meant to quote this:

Habakkuk 2:3 "For the vision is yet for the appointed time; It hastens toward the goal and it will not fail. Though it tarries, wait for it; For it will certainly come, it will not delay.

What were you meaning?


In my opinion.

I was thinking more John 21:22.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg , thank you for your response. I have a few questions though: Could you give an example of a few? For instance, has he ushered in a reign of world peace, with his rule centered in Jerusalem?

Thank you for your response - The common interpretation of the name Jerusalem is "The City of Peace" or "Abode of Peace".

So it does make sense that it will be Peace that is taught.

Revelation 21:2 "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband."

Thus this does no mean that the current City of Jerusalem is the place where all this will unfold. Baha'u'llah has ushered in a reign of Peace and the New Jerusalem is Haifa on Mt Carmel. My Carmel is in Prophecy saying it will witness the 'Glory of the Lord' (Baha'u'llah)

Isaiah 35:2 "It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God."

Would you mind explaining how they are? I apologize for not looking it up myself, but it's difficult to find coherent sources on the Baha'i faith.

Baha'u'llah has explained it using the sun and mirror analogy.

[ATTACH=full]20535[/ATTACH]

This shows that it is the same God giving us the Message in each age. This is the One Fold and One Shepherd talked about in the Bible. It is also said that in the Last Days His name will be One.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

John 17:21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [I]art[/I] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

It is the same Rays from the Sun shining in each One of Gods Manifestations.

[QUOTE="Duke_Leto, post: 5515380, member: 57845"][USER=62223]But if that's so, wouldn't it be possible to interpret [I]anything[/I] as having fulfilled these prophecies? Unless there's a very clear way to determine that they were in fact fulfilled, it seems like it would be quite easy to make any claim you could want.[/QUOTE]

There has to be someone that has made the claim. Then one by one demonstrate how they have fulfilled Prophecy. Baha'u'llah has done this and also appointed Abdul'baha His Son to further clarify and then Shoghi Effendi His Grandson also undertook this task. We have a mountain of information on this subject now.

Mathematically, to take one person that has made a claim such as this and then take each Prophecy to see if they can fulfill it in some way, it becomes a number equivalent to all the atoms in the known universe that it would be pure chance.

[QUOTE="Duke_Leto, post: 5515380, member: 57845"][USER=62223]Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah were metaphorical plagues of locusts, demons, and bowls of God's wrath spilled out as a punishment for humanity? Are you sure?[/QUOTE]

Abdul'baha has given a quick thought on this topic, here is a section from a talk given on 11th Chapter of Saint John.

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muḥammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.”
Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb."

This is the full talk - [URL="http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-11.html"]Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61[/URL]

[QUOTE="Duke_Leto, post: 5515380, member: 57845"][USER=62223]Once again, could you illustrate how?[/QUOTE]

This is a massive question, this very short explanation.

Biblical Scholars in the 18800's had picked 1844 as the return of Christ. they had used Daniel's 2300 year Prophecy and a start date to that Prophecy as 457 BC, When you add these numbers knowing there is no year Zero it gives the 1844 Date.

Daniel also gives this same time as 31/2years, which translates to 1260 Years. You will find this 1260 years in Revelation in relation to Two Witnesses that would give Prophecy clothed in sackcloth for 1260 years.

What was not known at the time, is that AD1844, is also the year of the Muslim Calendar AH1260. Thus the Bible has told us the Revelation of Muhammad would last 1260 years before the event all await will happen. (Revelation Chapters 11 and 12)

It was 1844 when the Bab gave the Message and foretold he had come to prepare the way for the One whom God would make Manifest, "Baha'u'llah".

Thank you for the questions, regards Tony[/user][/user][/user]

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What about, "As it was in the days of Noah..." Back then there was only one righteous man. Maybe we have a few more than that right now. Also, what if He tarries?

Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This is the Hint to the time that the Message will continue on the Earth; “Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth” (Genesis 7.17).

For 40 Years Baha'u'llah gave His Message. the same neglect was given to this Message.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry unless someone can show us otherwise, currently finding that Baha'i is for simple people; who want to think the world will get better by wishful thinking, and ignoring contexts.

That is your opinion and we will in no way infringe upon your free will to give it

Baha'u'llah puts it into context, no other man can.

Regards Tony

 

[12jtartar]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

View attachment 20526

But lets go for a further three options;

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

Tony Bristol-Stagg,
A very good question, one that is vital that we understand! Please think about what I say, because I have reasearched this subject thoroughly.
Now, in one way Jesus has come, but not in the way he will COME, in the near future.
Some people think that Jesus has come, because he has, now taken up the CROWN, as King of The Messianic Kingdom, which the Bible says will be for 1,000 years. This is a time of complete restoration of the earth and mankind to the perfection, of the earth at the time that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden.
Now, allow me to point to Scriptures that prove this.
Jesus, in Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, and Luke chapter 21, told his disciples the signs that would be on earth just before his Coming. The signs would be earthquakes, famines, especially Wars, and also a breakdown of social and religious mores. 2Timothy 3:1-7, 4:2-5. These things have happened in every generation, so in order to fulfill the sign that Jesus gave, these things would necessarily be greater than all the generations before. Well, consider Wars, there has been more people killed in wars in the 20th and 21st century that in all the centuries since Jesus said these words, earthquakes- since Jesus has become King, earthquakes, major earthquakes have been ten times worse. Pestilences and famines have all gotten worse. The Spanish Flue killed over 100 million in 1918. In magnitude, all the things that Jesus pointed to, have happened in this generation in an unprecedented scale, and they will even get worse before Jesus COMES.
In Daniel, we are told of a great Tree that was so big that it could be seen all over the earth, and everything ate from it. This great Tree was cut down and be banded for 7times. These times were years and in prophecy 360 days are used foe a year, which makes 7 X 360= 2,520 years. This Tree mentioned in Daniel was a long range prophecy fortelling the setting up of the Kingdom of Go again on earth. When it was cut down and banded was 607 BCE, when Nebuchadnezzar, and the Babylonian Empire destroyed Jerusalem, and the great Temple that Solomon had built, which signaled the end of Theocratic rule over the earth, Daniel 4:10-26. Here the short fulfillment was on Nebuchadnezzar, but the long range prophecy was about the Theocracy, God rule on earth, Genesis 49:10, Ezehial 21:25-27, Luke 21:24, until the Messiah would come again. If we add 2,520 years to 607 BCE, we come to 1914, which was the year that Jesus was given the Crown as King, Revelation 6:2. The Bible shows that when the Hingdom was set up Jesus would be ruling in the midst of his enemies for a short time, Psalms 110:1-7. Revelation 6:2-6. Notice that WAR was the first thing to happen after Jesus became King, Revelation 12:1-12,pictures the birth of the Kingdom, from God’s woman, and then WAR in Heaven. Satan and hid demon angels were thrown down to earth. What then would this year 1914 bring to mankind World War 1, ant then. Wars and all other terrible thing that Satan and his demons would cause, until Jesus really COMES to the earth.
So you see, Jesus has not COME, because when he does COME, it will be time for Judgment of the earth, Matthew 25:31-46, 2Thessalonians 1:6-19. Consider Revelation 12:13-17, which is a picture of what Satan and his demons would cause on earth.
Because all the things mentioned in the Bible, about this generation, are coming true just as Jesus prophecied, on an unprecedented scale, is positive proof that we are the generation that Jesus spoke about, and that Jesus’ COMING is very near!!Matthew 24:34, Luke 21:31,32.
Agape!!!

 

[wizanda]

I was thinking more John 21:22.

John is made up.

Baha'u'llah puts it into context, no other man can.

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be 76 demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God. -
Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 75-76

Since I'm an arch angel sent before the Tribulation, this isn't only a man saying it...

Thus unless someone can show otherwise, Baha'i doesn't understand the Biblical prophecy, and therefore can not be Christ.

Yeshua didn't come as a ransom for sin, that is what Christianity perceived, as they've missed the contexts applied in Isaiah 28, that the covenant with death was disannulled before it was ever thought about...

The whole thing is a Snare to catch out demons at the Tribulation, as Isaiah 24 relates.

Thus please give us some reason to even question the hypothesis...

If the only aspect is Baha'i teaching that Martyrism is equivalent to sainthood, this is also faulty like the Catholic church teaches, due to many blunders in translation, and exegesis.

In my opinion.

 

[Godobeyer]

Thank you for that. I will just offer a further thought you can consider or disregard.

From my view I have come to know Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) and the Koran because of the Message of Baha'u'llah. I have become aware that there may be Koran Passages and verified Haddith that support the return. This is a topic in its own self.

This is how I see Baha'u'llah in the Koran;

"...To Him Muhammad, the Apostle of God, had alluded in His Book as the “Great Announcement,” and declared His Day to be the Day whereon “God” will “come down” “overshadowed with clouds,” the Day whereon “thy Lord shall come and the angels rank on rank,” and “The Spirit shall arise and the angels shall be ranged in order.” His advent He, in that Book, in a súrih said to have been termed by Him “the heart of the Qur’án,” had foreshadowed as that of the “third” Messenger, sent down to “strengthen” the two who preceded Him. To His Day He, in the pages of that same Book, had paid a glowing tribute, glorifying it as the “Great Day,” the “Last Day,” the “Day of God,” the “Day of Judgment,” the “Day of Reckoning,” the “Day of Mutual Deceit,” the “Day of Severing,” the “Day of Sighing,” the “Day of Meeting,” the Day “when the Decree shall be accomplished,” the Day whereon the second “Trumpet blast” will be sounded, the “Day when mankind shall stand before the Lord of the world,” and “all shall come to Him in humble guise,” the Day when “thou shalt see the mountains, which thou thinkest so firm, pass away with the passing of a cloud,” the Day “wherein account shall be taken,” “the approaching Day, when men’s hearts shall rise up, choking them, into their throats,” the Day when “all that are in the heavens and all that are on the earth shall be terror-stricken, save him whom God pleaseth to deliver,” the Day whereon “every suckling woman shall forsake her sucking babe, and every woman that hath a burden in her womb shall cast her burden,” the Day “when the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord, and the Book shall be set, and the Prophets shall be brought up, and the witnesses; and judgment shall be given between them with equity; and none shall be wronged.” Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

Regards Tony

I don't said all Hadithes are fake,but it's verified that the Hadithes about return of Jesus(pbuh) and anti-Christ are just copy/paste from Bible.

 

[Fool]

Correct and the Temple promised by God is the Temple of Baha'u'llah.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

This is that Proof

Regards Tony

i have no idea what you're attempting to convey in this post, except the particular article. I gave it a summary glance and gave up.

would you like to offer a short synopsis of the work?

 

[oldbadger]

Read what they did. How else do you describe bloodthirsty Mobs.........................................

Regards Tony

You quote from a letter written by an unknown person in remembrance of a disenchanted employee's claims.......... OK, so the fate of assassins wouldn't have been pleasant back then. And then you painted millions of people with the one brush, thus:-

There are a couple of more reliable sources that were not Baha'i, they support the fact that the Baha'i history, as recorded, is an accurate portrayal of the birth of a new Peace seeking Faith, amongst barbarians.

You need to remember that this Babi group was a revolutionary, insurrectionist group of apostates dedicated to the overthrow of the existing government, a potentially violent group who carried weapons, with proven murderous intent against even heads of state.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Show these signs you think have been fulfilled please, and we can debate each based on scripture.

In my opinion.

I included a small number of them in post #36.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

I view the Bahai's as a force for good, and as Jesus is quoted in the gospels "He who is not against me is for me." I await Christ's return, however I am not a traditional Christian and am more of a facsimile, a sort of mutt with a combination background from multiple Christian factions. I have no apostolic line, no ordination, no real accomplishments, nothing at all to show except for myself. I do not await the return of a man flying down from the sky but the revitalization and renewal of Jesus hopes and the answer to his prayers. This is the return of Christ according to my best attempts to grasp it.

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

But lets go for a further three options;

Many await a man, and that is a tragedy I think. There is no use pointing fingers about who has caused this confusion. It has been caused by us, by our own nature casting a shadow in the light. I am not speaking of the light here in the sense like in John in the Christian Bible and not in the Quaker sense but in the sense its referred to in James in the Christian Bible. The former talks about and uses light to represent something (Logos) that comes and dwells among us, but the latter which I am referring to talks about and uses light to refer to wisdom and life like it is a pure fountain or like the continual shining of the sun which gives us birth we who must be shined through rather than out of. In this light we have cast a shadow, and so there is no one to blame about all of the misunderstandings about Christ's return. In the sense of the former, our inner light has been somewhat covered, dimmed, controlled. Like fire it has been smoldering to run out of control, just looking for an opening.

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

Personally I do not think Christ has returned just yet, and I sometimes wonder if Christ will. Christ will, however. Nothing will stop Abraham's vision. If the lampstands be removed that is still not the end, just a realization.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yeah, and Christianity established by John, Paul, and Simon don't know how prophecy is fulfilled within the Tanakh properly; so would dismiss both for not building precept, upon precept.

In my opinion.

According to Tanakh, the Christ had to appear at the Second (now gone) Temple. Who is the Christ, then?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Matthew 16:28
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Amen! Good thing they did in the passage immediately following this pronouncement!