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How responsible is God for Satan's actions?

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Let's say the Bible is true.

If a father lets a Serpent into the room with his children, knowing in advance what the serpent will do to them, isn't the father just as responsible as the serpent, especially if you consider the fact that the father made the serpent knowing what the serpent would do?
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
@PopeADope if I believed the Bible for what it literally says- I would honestly have to conclude Satan might be the good guy. Think about some of the things the Bible says about God. That isn't mentioning what some of his Christian 'followers' tell us- that Satan wants humans to believe in our own abilities, understanding, and so on. That makes Satan sound like he's rooting for humans against someone that thinks we're junk, better for nothing than obedience, because we'd just hurt ourselves otherwise.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Let's say the Bible is true.

If a father lets a Serpent into the room with his children, knowing in advance what the serpent will do to them, isn't the father just as responsible as the serpent, especially if you consider the fact that the father made the serpent knowing what the serpent would do?

That's a strawman argument.

The serpent in Genesis is not a wild snake that will bite you like you are representing in your OP.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
You are if you had complete knowledge of what they would do, no?

Nope, they are still responsible for their own actions.

Even if I knew one was going to drink and drive at age 30. I am not liable for that action because I taught them to not drink and drive. If they still chose to do it at 30. They are responsible for making that decision.
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
Nope, they are still responsible for their own actions.

Even if I knew one was going to drink and drive at age 30. I am not liable for that action because I taught them to not drink and drive. If they still chose to do it at 30. They are responsible for making that decision.

Ok. Let's say you knew that the next child you fathered would become a serial killer who enjoyed torturing people to death, and that he would kill 2 dozen children before being caught and sentenced to death. Would you father that child?... after all, what he does after he becomes an adult isn't your responsibility, right?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Let's say the Bible is true.

I believe it is after studying it for over 40 years.

If a father lets a Serpent into the room with his children, knowing in advance what the serpent will do to them, isn't the father just as responsible as the serpent, especially if you consider the fact that the father made the serpent knowing what the serpent would do?

The serpent wasn't originally a serpent though, was he? He was a Cherub....a guardian in the Garden of Eden, placed there in a position of responsibility. The book of Ezekiel explains what happened.....

“Son of man, sing a dirge concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:

You were the model of perfection,


Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.


13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.


You were adorned with every precious stone

—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;

And their settings and mountings were made of gold.


They were prepared on the day you were created.


14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.



You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.


15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created

Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . .


17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.


You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor." (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

What is this describing?....the corruption of a once beautiful and perfect creature who, as a free moral agent allowed his own desires to lead him to rebel against his Creator. He wanted the worship that was only to be given to God. He was right there in the Garden, waiting for his chance when the couple were separated. He chose to tempt the woman as the less experienced of the two, hoping to use her influence to get to his main target.....Adam.

The fact that God can know all things, doesn't mean that he chooses to. He has endowed his intelligent creatures with free will and demonstrated a great amount of trust in them. This formerly faithful angel corrupted himself through the abuse of his gift of free will. In order to carry out his plan, he hijacked the newly created human beings so that he could get worship from them. No one else could see him as a god. His fellow angels were his equal in power and at best he could be their leader, but now he saw an opportunity to seize what he desired....to become a god to them. Every time humans commit an act of disobedience to the true God, they unwittingly give worship to the devil.

Can you understand what led this angel to be a "satan" (resister) and a "devil" (slanderer)?
He tricked the woman into believing that God was a liar who was withholding something that they had a right to know. He lied....and she believed him, but when she offered the fruit to Adam, he had a choice.....refuse the offer and lose her.....or join her and die with her. He chose badly, because he left his children with a lethal inheritance. (Romans 5:12) This often happens when loyalties are divided. Satan is dividing our loyalties even now, as he has been all along....deceiving us with lies and deception about our Creator. He has the ability to cause a certain kind of "blindness".....but only the "unbelievers" will suffer from it. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) Those who trust in God will not fall for the devil's lies.

Do you know why God did not execute those rebels on the spot? The plot thickens......
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Ok. Let's say you knew that the next child you fathered would become a serial killer who enjoyed torturing people to death, and that he would kill 2 dozen children before being caught and sentenced to death. Would you father that child?... after all, what he does after he becomes an adult isn't your responsibility, right?

I would raise him the best I can, teach him the best I can, but ultimately his decisions are his own, and thus he will have to accept the punishment for those.
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
I would raise him the best I can, teach him the best I can, but ultimately his decisions are his own, and thus he will have to accept the punishment for those.

...but you knowingly would choose to father that child... o_O

I would get a vasectomy and choose the rout that wouldn't cause needless suffering, personally.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
...but you knowingly would choose to father that child... o_O

I would get a vasectomy and choose the rout that wouldn't cause needless suffering, personally.

I birthed him also knowing he has choices in life. He could be a killer or a doctor. It all depended on his choices. I am responsible for neither the good or bad choices. That is all on the kid.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I believe it is after studying it for over 40 years.



The serpent wasn't originally a serpent though, was he? He was a Cherub....a guardian in the Garden of Eden, placed there in a position of responsibility. The book of Ezekiel explains what happened.....

“Son of man, sing a dirge concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:

You were the model of perfection,


Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.


13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.


You were adorned with every precious stone

—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;

And their settings and mountings were made of gold.


They were prepared on the day you were created.


14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.



You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.


15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created

Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . .


17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.


You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor." (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

What is this describing?....the corruption of a once beautiful and perfect creature who, as a free moral agent allowed his own desires to lead him to rebel against his Creator. He wanted the worship that was only to be given to God. He was right there in the Garden, waiting for his chance when the couple were separated. He chose to tempt the woman as the less experienced of the two, hoping to use her influence to get to his main target.....Adam.

The fact that God can know all things, doesn't mean that he chooses to. He has endowed his intelligent creatures with free will and demonstrated a great amount of trust in them. This formerly faithful angel corrupted himself through the abuse of his gift of free will. In order to carry out his plan, he hijacked the newly created human beings so that he could get worship from them. No one else could see him as a god. His fellow angels were his equal in power and at best he could be their leader, but now he saw an opportunity to seize what he desired....to become a god to them. Every time humans commit an act of disobedience to the true God, they unwittingly give worship to the devil.

Can you understand what led this angel to be a "satan" (resister) and a "devil" (slanderer)?
He tricked the woman into believing that God was a liar who was withholding something that they had a right to know. He lied....and she believed him, but when she offered the fruit to Adam, he had a choice.....refuse the offer and lose her.....or join her and die with her. He chose badly, because he left his children with a lethal inheritance. (Romans 5:12) This often happens when loyalties are divided. Satan is dividing our loyalties even now, as he has been all along....deceiving us with lies and deception about our Creator. He has the ability to cause a certain kind of "blindness".....but only the "unbelievers" will suffer from it. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) Those who trust in God will not fall for the devil's lies.

Do you know why God did not execute those rebels on the spot? The plot thickens......
Satan deceives people because God wants him to. if God didn't want Satan to deceive people, God could stop all of his efforts, and God chooses not to, making God just as responsible For the evil in the world.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I birthed him also knowing he has choices in life. He could be a killer or a doctor. It all depended on his choices. I am responsible for neither the good or bad choices. That is all on the kid.
but if there is a devil deceiving your kid, and you have all the ability to stop the devil's efforts , and you choose not to, you share the responsibility
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
but if there is a devil deceiving your kid, and you have all the ability to stop the devil's efforts , and you choose not to, you share the responsibility

The devil has no power. If someone listens to the devil they are responsible for their actions. Not God, not the devil, the person performing the actions.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The devil has no power. If someone listens to the devil they are responsible for their actions. Not God, not the devil, the person performing the actions.
a lot of people in bondage to Satan don't know that they are in bondage to Satan.
God could quickly and easily destroy the work of the devil and he chooses not to, making him the devil's enabler
 

InChrist

Free4ever
...but you knowingly would choose to father that child... o_O

I would get a vasectomy and choose the rout that wouldn't cause needless suffering, personally.
It is easy to assume you would choose not to father such a person in a hypothetical situation, but I think reality is much more complex. For example, what if before your hypothetical child becomes a serial killer he has a family and his children are all caring, responsible people who benefit their community and also have children who go on to be productive individuals, possibly even inventing or doing something to truly bless the world. No one person exists in a vacuum, as all humanity is interconnected...mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, etc. So to say you would eliminate someone because they will commit terrible things, may if fact also cause the elimination of many others who may do all kinds of tremendously good things bringing many beneficial accomplishments to the world. Finite humans just don't know the future and can't see the whole picture.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
a lot of people in bondage to Satan don't know that they are in bondage to Satan.
God could quickly and easily destroy the work of the devil and he chooses not to, making him the devil's enabler
God is not the devil's enabler. People do know when they are doing wrong. God has given each one a conscience. When people choose to continue to do wrong things anyway, because they feel like, they are rejecting God and choosing to follow satan. No one is in bondage to satan...by accident.
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
I birthed him also knowing he has choices in life. He could be a killer or a doctor. It all depended on his choices. I am responsible for neither the good or bad choices. That is all on the kid.

Oh?... I wasn't aware that that's how predetermination works; especially for an omnipotent being (and especially in the example I gave). It seems you're moving the goal posts.

Still, if we're talking about possible futures instead, I still wouldn't take that risk. Knowing a future child had a very good chance of being a serial killer still puts the responsibility in my court.

It'd be like throwing a boulder from the top of a mountain known for avalanches, then blaming the mountain if an avalanche starts...
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
a lot of people in bondage to Satan don't know that they are in bondage to Satan.

I call bull. I understand what it's like being in that position and feeling hopeless like I never could change. But ultimately I had to reach deep down and make that change. Its easier said than done, which is why so many people have such a hard time with it.

Living by giving in to temptation is easy.

Living by resisting temptations is hard.
 
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