atheism and death

[syo]

You suppose they use fear of death to convince themselves of belief?
Seems plausible, if self-deceptive.

yes, it is one of the reasons why many people have a religion.

 

[syo]

Okay, so let's say we've somehow established that our conscious/self lives on after our physical body dies and rots away. Why do you assert that a supernatural god being is required to keep a conscious/self intact?

because it doesn't have a body anymore, so the self needs something else, god.

How do you know that it is even possible for this assumed conscious/self that exists after a body dies to ever NOT be intact?

because it's a reality, and reality doesn't disappear.

 

[`mud]

Ahhhhh.....To die and lose my cognizance,
that is one fear controlling my existence.
Tyson is just about right on his points.
But democracy can't take that away, no matter the laws.
But the worms be damned, burn my arse.
Then I return to where I came, the Cosmos.
I really think that I will miss my cognizance,
but I won't be there to know it, will I ? Ask Thief, he might know.
I wish all those that believe in gods and idols, good luck.
You might even find your heaven,
but a flipped coin, could land on it's edge.

 

[QuestioningMind]

because it doesn't have a body anymore, so the self needs something else, god.

because it's a reality, and reality doesn't disappear.

Quit simply making claims without any evidence to suggest that they are true. WHY does a conscious/self NEED anything else? Why can't conscious/self exist WITHOUT a body or God? What are you basing your assertions on?

Again, provide some EVIDENCE that it is reality. You do realize that simply SAYING it is reality does NOT make it so, right?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

yes, it is one of the reasons why many people have a religion.

Surely people don't think they can speak heaven into existence though?
Oh, who am I kidding. It's entirely plausible that sum do.

 

[`mud]

hey Lewis,
I guess it's the thought that counts !
I keep thinking of all those trumpets blaring,
and thousands of angels dancing on pointed pins.
And there's that HEAVY throne , just floating there.....
NuffStuff

 

[syo]

WHY does a conscious/self NEED anything else? Why can't conscious/self exist WITHOUT a body or God?

the body is the ''vessel'' of self. we can't conceive a self without it's body. we simply can't. when we die the body/vessel rots. then the self needs another vessel, god. the evidence is that self can't exist on it's own, it's impossible to conceive anything without a body. can you conceive anything that isn't printed in a body? no you can't. the evidence is actually empirical, from what we understand of reality, of what we see.

 

[`mud]

hey SYO,
Thanks for the

 

[QuestioningMind]

the body is the ''vessel'' of self. we can't conceive a self without it's body. we simply can't. when we die the body/vessel rots. then the self needs another vessel, god. the evidence is that self can't exist on it's own, it's impossible to conceive anything without a body. can you conceive anything that isn't printed in a body? no you can't. the evidence is actually empirical, from what we understand of reality, of what we see.

First off, being 'unable to concieve' of something is not evidence that it doesn't exist. Second, I agree that all of the empirical evidence points to the reality that a physical body is required to produce conscious/self. HOWEVER, you started off this discussion declaring that conscious/self DOES continue to exist after the body dies. I agreed to ASSUME that this is true, but then asked for your EVIDENCE that a conscious/self that CAN exist without a physical body would SOMEHOW require a God in order to exist. I'm STILL waiting for you to provide any such evidence.

 

[`mud]

Regarding: "conscious/self". How does one become a `vessel` ?
What is the mind/form from which cognition operates.
It seems to be independant from all other bodily entities.
It seems that it's part of the brain, but totally seperate.
The question is, why can't it go forward without the operating mind ?
Nothing in this thread really answers that question,
without the adaptation of the invinsible `gods or idols`.
Maybe the `spirit` comes before the body, and leaves on death.
Maybe the native Americans had something right there.
But....no `gods or idols` are needed in that case.
Maybe we still have a chance after all !
Maybe Thief has it right after all, don't tell him I said that.

 

[12jtartar]

suppose atheism is correct and there is no god. what happens when we die?

syo,
An atheist will get the same eventuality as any beast, or a person who claims to believe, but does not obey God’s words, Ecclesiastes 3:17-22, Acts 4:8-12.
When Jesus came to earth, he died so that all people, who put their trust in him will be resurrected back to life, on a paradise earth. This is a gift from God, Only to those who have faith in Jesus Ransom Sacrifice, 1Timothy 2:1-6. This great Sacrifice of Jesus will only be given to those who obey the word of God and follow Jesus’ footsteps, 1Peter 2:21, John 15:10, 20:31. Jesus’ Ransom Sacrifice is meant for everyone, but there is NO Sacrifice for ones who do not become doers of the word and not hearers only, James 1:21-25, Hebrews 10:26-31.

 

[12jtartar]

That's it.

If we are not reborn, lights out. Nothing to do with atheism. There are religions that believe in the afterlife without the existence of a god.

What's interesting is I am getting more comfortable with "nothing will exist" since my aunt/my friend passed away three weeks ago. She's not here. Why would I think she would be anywhere else but in the hearts of her family, friends, and people who wished her well living?

Carlita,
You are right about you aunt being in the thoughts of family and friends, but there is another one, even more important, God. The chances are very good that she is in God’s memory, which means that she will be resurrected, to life again, in a paradise earth, John 5:25-28, Revelation 21:1-8.
Your aunt is almost certain to be back on earth in a few years
from now, but will you be there to welcome her back? The ones who are living when Jesus comes again must Know God and obey The lord Jesus, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10. We must all become doers of the word and not hearers only, James 1:21-25, and followers of Jesus Christ, 1Peter 2:21, Acts 4:10-12.
God does not want to destroy anyone, but the end of this old system of things is very near, 2Peter 3:9.
All the things Jesus told would be happening when he returns are happening NOW, and on an unpresedented scale, Matthew chapter 24. With so much evidence there can be no doubt!!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita,
You are right about you aunt being in the thoughts of family and friends, but there is another one, even more important, God. The chances are very good that she is in God’s memory, which means that she will be resurrected, to life again, in a paradise earth, John 5:25-28, Revelation 21:1-8.
Your aunt is almost certain to be back on earth in a few years
from now, but will you be there to welcome her back? The ones who are living when Jesus comes again must Know God and obey The lord Jesus, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10. We must all become doers of the word and not hearers only, James 1:21-25, and followers of Jesus Christ, 1Peter 2:21, Acts 4:10-12.
God does not want to destroy anyone, but the end of this old system of things is very near, 2Peter 3:9.
All the things Jesus told would be happening when he returns are happening NOW, and on an unpresedented scale, Matthew chapter 24. With so much evidence there can be no doubt!!!

Thank you letting me know your belief. Scripture is not my authority so I cant find truth in it. (What evidence? outside your belief). We believe that spirits of the deceased are on earth. They help family, friends, etc in our everyday life. The spirit is not casper; visible spirit (though my mother, father, and real estate person say ones years ago). Who is in our hearts become physical and spiritual (and self fufilled) existence of someone not physicaly here. I assume they stay here until "we" let them go.

I havent encountered my aunt's spirit yet. I did with my grandmother five years ago. That would be interesting to see her reborn as someone else.

 

[Willamena]

Either non existence or something else.

This. And since the former is impossible...

 

[syo]

First off, being 'unable to concieve' of something is not evidence that it doesn't exist. Second, I agree that all of the empirical evidence points to the reality that a physical body is required to produce conscious/self. HOWEVER, you started off this discussion declaring that conscious/self DOES continue to exist after the body dies. I agreed to ASSUME that this is true, but then asked for your EVIDENCE that a conscious/self that CAN exist without a physical body would SOMEHOW require a God in order to exist. I'm STILL waiting for you to provide any such evidence.

i don't have any.

 

[syo]

Regarding: "conscious/self". How does one become a `vessel` ?
What is the mind/form from which cognition operates.
It seems to be independant from all other bodily entities.
It seems that it's part of the brain, but totally seperate.
The question is, why can't it go forward without the operating mind ?
Nothing in this thread really answers that question,
without the adaptation of the invinsible `gods or idols`.
Maybe the `spirit` comes before the body, and leaves on death.
Maybe the native Americans had something right there.
But....no `gods or idols` are needed in that case.
Maybe we still have a chance after all !
Maybe Thief has it right after all, don't tell him I said that.

i think that native Americans knew a lot!

 

[syo]

syo,
An atheist will get the same eventuality as any beast, or a person who claims to believe, but does not obey God’s words, Ecclesiastes 3:17-22, Acts 4:8-12.
When Jesus came to earth, he died so that all people, who put their trust in him will be resurrected back to life, on a paradise earth. This is a gift from God, Only to those who have faith in Jesus Ransom Sacrifice, 1Timothy 2:1-6. This great Sacrifice of Jesus will only be given to those who obey the word of God and follow Jesus’ footsteps, 1Peter 2:21, John 15:10, 20:31. Jesus’ Ransom Sacrifice is meant for everyone, but there is NO Sacrifice for ones who do not become doers of the word and not hearers only, James 1:21-25, Hebrews 10:26-31.

i believe all humanity should follow jesus' teachings alongside with their individual beliefs.

 

[QuestioningMind]

i don't have any.

It's kind of silly to make an assertion without any evidence.

 

[`mud]

I'm trying to figure out what Questioning meant when she/he asked about the evidence.
What `evidence` is needed, when the absence of presence of something, prove anything ?
I think that the loss of one's life doesn't prove that one's death, and loss of cognizance,
proves any more than the possibility of another form of exisitance or not.
The answer to the question would have to be `I don't know` doesn't it ?
I see no `silliness` here, but the silliness seem's to be coming from the question, doesn't it ?
Oh......I'm confusing myself now, and it's all rather silly from the start.

 

[ASPls]

Well, the Bible never really says anything about "immortal soul" floating off to heaven or hell. Therefore, what most unbelievers think is actually true : when they die, they just die. They return to dust, their thoughts perishes/dissipates, returns to nothing, just like any other animals. There is no torture or pitchforks - death itself is the punishment.

Hell is reserved just for satan and his kind, while heaven is basically the believers being resurrected at end times to get in the "new kingdom".