What do you think happens when we die

[Twilight Hue]

Quite literally stardust. That has seen endless transformations.

Staggering thought. And I bet we are the sum total of all the information those atoms acquired throughout eternity.

I think so. When it's examined in that regard, I don't see there was conceivably a beginning to start with. How many forms via molecules every atom in our body went through up to this point? :0)

 

[George-ananda]

And I bet we are the sum total of all the information those atoms acquired throughout eternity.

How do atoms acquire and retain this information?

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that when we die, our consciousness dissolves. it is no more. Then our bodies rot (if there are enough bacteria around) or mummify (otherwise).

I'm not sure what else there is to say about it.

I believe that when we die, our physical bodies go back into the earth but our consciousness continues because our soul is responsible for our consciousness. Our soul continues on to the spiritual world and takes on another form made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual world.

 

[Deeje]

Do you have to wait for Jesus to return before you are resurrected? What about people who are not Christians, do they remain dead in their graves? What is supposed to happen after the body is resurrected from a grave? Where does it go then?

If I may.....this is how I see things....

There is nothing in scripture that tells us that we have any part of us that lives on after the death of our soul. (Ezekiel 18:4) Yes, the Bible says that souls "die".

A "soul" in the Bible is not an invisible "thing" that lives in our body to drive it like some kind of vehicle. The "soul" is the living, breathing entity that is mortal and needs food and water and oxygen to survive. It it the whole person or animal or living thing.

Adam was not "given" a soul, but "became" a soul as soon as God animated him, giving him breath. (spirit)

A soul cannot exist apart from a body and a body is not alive without spirit. The whole "life after death" thing came about for two reasons....

1) Once humans begin to live, they are programmed to go on living indefinitely.
King Solomon wrote...
"He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

Though created as mortals, humans had the opportunity in the beginning to live forever in the flesh. Our perfect bodies were designed to renew themselves perpetually....and God provided the means to ensure this with what is called "the tree of life" in the garden. It was freely available until their disobedience, then access was denied. (Genesis 3:22-24)

Science does not know what happens to cause this process of cell renewal to slow down and eventually cease. They know "how" it happens, but not "why" it ends in a gradual decline into death.Theoretically it should keep on going.

The earth is our home and we were never supposed to live anywhere else. If humans had never disobeyed God, paradise on earth is where they would have spent eternity.....all of them. But disobedience brought death....something as foreign to us now as it has always been. We have an inner desire to go on living, never being able to imagine a time when we will not be....but that is what death is....a return to the dust...."the big sleep".....we fight it.

2)The devil exploited this inner need by suggesting to the woman in Eden that she would NOT die even if she ate the forbidden fruit. To offset the inevitability of death, the devil suggested that life would somehow go on in some other realm. With that thought in mind, people invented places for their 'immortal soul' to go. It is a widely held belief that our loved ones are supposedly able to watch over us from above. But if we think about it, how would that make heaven a happy place if our departed loved ones were watching us make terrible mistakes, or getting some dreadful disease and suffering? What if they saw us heading for a fatal accident or a violent murder and had no way to stop it?
What if they are observing the bombings and the killing in religious wars or political conflicts? Would you be happy observing if that was the case? Heaven would be flooded with tears. That makes no sense.....it's not at all comforting.

The Bible's promise of a resurrection is a full bodily return to one's former life....with everything restored...memories, health, relationships, youth...everything that Adam lost for his children. The main difference on the earth will be the restoration of paradise. Adam lost his paradise home and his children have never lived there. Christ came to get it back for us. That is what makes sense to me.

The Bible was written for another age in history, before people were ready to understand what really awaits us in the afterlife and what the soul is. What was not revealed in the Bible has now been revealed, the many things Jesus spoke of that we could not bear, so we now know that there is an eternal soul that separates from the body upon death, takes on another form, and continues to exist forever in the spiritual world. All humans have eternal souls, no matter what they believe or disbelieve. The state of the soul after death will differ among individuals but all souls can continue to progress after they separate from the body.

Well, that is what some people believe, but it finds no support in the scriptures. Can you show me a single scripture that says that the soul separates from the body at death? There is nothing to continue, no matter how much we want to believe that we will not exist for a time, sleeping in death is what we do. There is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Jesus said that his friend Lazarus was "sleeping" when it was plain that he had died. (John 11:11-14)

Human consciousness needs a brain. The brain is often the part of our anatomy that dies first when breathing stops. Deprived of oxygen, the cells deteriorate very rapidly and once brain death is confirmed, there is no hope of revival. Irreparable brain damage cannot be reversed. Life support is turned off.

Yes, the body dies, but the soul lives on and goes to the spiritual world and takes on another form made up of heavenly elements in the spiritual realm.

Please provide scripture to confirm what you believe.

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun......Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; 10)

Solomon wrote that and it was what the ancient Jews believed.....resurrection after sleeping peacefully in the grave was their hope. But notice what verse 6 says....."their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun."

We would understand a persons negative qualities (hate and jealousy) being eliminated by death but why would "love" perish?.....it is the very epitome of everything God is. Who could live with God without love?

Humans are designed for the earth and the earth was designed for us.....one day soon I believe that Jesus will clean up this planet and bring redeemed humanity back to God's original purpose in line with Isaiah 55:11.

 

[Trailblazer]

Fortunately, I do not have to guess because I believe the Bible. The Bible says we will be dead in all ways until Jesus returns and gives us new life.

Where does the Bible say that?

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

It seems to me that if one already believes in Jesus there is nothing to be resurrected.

Obviously, Jesus is talking about spiritual death and spiritual life, not about the physical body.

Jesus already gave us a new spiritual life. Why does Jesus have to return to give us new life?

 

[viole]

It's a very simple question. What happens when we die? What are you true feelings on the subject. Do you believe what other people tell you is true. Or do you have your own ideas on the subject.

Here are my thoughts: I think when we die we look into the face of God and become mesmerized by God's infinite beauty. Time stops and we experience eternal Heavenly bliss. Everyone gets to have this experience regardless of our Earthly sins. I think my way of looking at this matches the evidence we have from near death experiences.

Even though looking into the face of God lasts only a few nanoseconds, it feels like eternity. Eventually the brain's electricity dissipates and conscious thought stops. But who cares. Once you look into the face of God experiencing God's infinite beauty is there anything else left to do. I don't think so.

Is this a good thing or bad thing. I think everything in life is "good". It's all good!

Same place we were before being born.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

If I may.....this is how I see things....

There is nothing in scripture that tells us that we have any part of us that lives on after the death of our soul. (Ezekiel 18:4) Yes, the Bible says that souls "die".

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

A soul is not physical entity so it cannot die physically. A soul that sins dies a spiritual death (sink in their depths) in the sense that it is handicapped in this life, but ever more so in the afterlife because without the free will we have here it cannot acquire the spiritual qualities in the afterlife without God’s mercy and the prayers of others.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 159-160

A "soul" in the Bible is not an invisible "thing" that lives in our body to drive it like some kind of vehicle. The "soul" is the living, breathing entity that is mortal and needs food and water and oxygen to survive. It is the whole person or animal or living thing.

Adam was not "given" a soul, but "became" a soul as soon as God animated him, giving him breath. (spirit)

A soul cannot exist apart from a body and a body is not alive without spirit. The whole "life after death" thing came about for two reasons....

I would have to see the scriptures you are referring to. I was never a Christian so I do not know the Bible very well. I can only try to interpret the scriptures you post and explain what they mean to me.

1) Once humans begin to live, they are programmed to go on living indefinitely.
King Solomon wrote...
"He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

I agree we are programmed to go on living indefinitely, but not in the same physical body we are born into on earth. When our soul ascends to the spiritual world, it will take on another form, another kind of body:

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

Though created as mortals, humans had the opportunity in the beginning to live forever in the flesh. Our perfect bodies were designed to renew themselves perpetually....and God provided the means to ensure this with what is called "the tree of life" in the garden. It was freely available until their disobedience, then access was denied. (Genesis 3:22-24)

Why would we even want to live forever in the flesh? Even if it was like a Garden of Eden...

Compare that with this:

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise…..” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 151-152

Science does not know what happens to cause this process of cell renewal to slow down and eventually cease. They know "how" it happens, but not "why" it ends in a gradual decline into death.Theoretically it should keep on going.

There is no reason to believe that the physical body would live forever, and I cannot understand why anyone would want to live forever in a physical body... That would be a punishment not a reward.

(Continued on next post)

 

[Trailblazer]

The earth is our home and we were never supposed to live anywhere else. If humans had never disobeyed God, paradise on earth is where they would have spent eternity.....all of them. But disobedience brought death....something as foreign to us now as it has always been. We have an inner desire to go on living, never being able to imagine a time when we will not be....but that is what death is....a return to the dust...."the big sleep".....we fight it.

What are the scriptures that support this?

The Bible's promise of a resurrection is a full bodily return to one's former life....with everything restored...memories, health, relationships, youth...everything that Adam lost for his children. The main difference on the earth will be the restoration of paradise. Adam lost his paradise home and his children have never lived there. Christ came to get it back for us. That is what makes sense to me.

What are the scriptures that support this?

Well, that is what some people believe, but it finds no support in the scriptures. Can you show me a single scripture that say that the soul separates from the body at death? There is nothing to continue, no matter how much we want to believe that we will not exist for a time, sleeping in death is what we do. There is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Jesus said that his friend Lazarus was "sleeping" when it was plain that he had died. (John 11:11-14)

Human consciousness needs a brain. The brain is often the part of our anatomy that dies first when breathing stops. Deprived of oxygen, the cells deteriorate very rapidly and once brain death is confirmed, there is no hope of revival. Irreparable brain damage cannot be reversed. Life support is turned off.

The soul is not dependent upon the brain because it is the soul that causes the brain to have consciousness.
The soul comes into being at the moment of conception and it animates the human body. The body needs a soul or it cannot live, but the soul does not need a body, so it continues to exist after the body dies. The body is destructible and temporary so eventually it dies; the soul is indestructible and eternal so it lives forever in the spiritual world.

Please provide scripture to confirm what you believe.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Why do you think Baha’u’llah said almost exactly the same thing? Awakening is about spiritual life and death, not about physical life and death. The soul never dies physically because it is not physical but it can die spiritually or live spiritually, as Jesus said.

Why did Jesus mention the soul in this context if it does not matter, associating the soul with life?

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Jesus was referring to the eternal life of the soul, not of the body. Where did Jesus ever mention the body living forever?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun......Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; 10)

What I think that means is that we had best do what we can now, before we die, because it will be too late after we die because we will not have the free will we have in this mortal life anymore.

Humans are designed for the earth and the earth was designed for us.....one day soon I believe that Jesus will clean up this planet and bring redeemed humanity back to God's original purpose in line with Isaiah 55:11.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

I do not see how this verse says that.

 

[Deeje]

@Trailblazer...its late here and I am ready for bed...I will reply to these tomorrow.....

 

[ajay0]

hey Ajay,
I'd rather be unconscious please !

Exactly ! This is the unconscious fear of oblivion and the unknown speaking.

 

[ajay0]

Said by whom?

those who claim to have personal experience with it are lying, since they are not, after all, dead.

They themselves could have perhaps died experiencing this and took birth again to tell the tale. There are stories in India of yogis giving up old bodies and taking up recent dead bodies of young people. Some have lived for centuries in this manner. One such was a yogi called Prabhakara Siddha yogi.

There is a story of a young man's dead body about to be cremated by his relatives, when an elderly man came up hurriedly shouting not to cremate it. After coming near the funeral pyre, the elderly man dropped dead while the dead body of the young man came up alive and ran away from the scene. The shocked relatives, at a loss on what to do, decided to cremate the elderly man's body instead.

This may seem implausible understandably , but it is theoretically possible taking the doctrine of the reincarnating soul into account as taught in the dharmic religions, and as rebirth in buddhism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It's a very simple question. What happens when we die? What are you true feelings on the subject. Do you believe what other people tell you is true. Or do you have your own ideas on the subject.

I tend to go my own way based on my understanding through study and personal experience.

The term "death" is subjective.

For me, it is merely a change of form. What composes the body is displaced and takes on another form. However, the 'I', that which is aware, that which is the observer, does not die. After the body ceases to be the vehicle of my temporal experience, the 'I' may experience rebirth in temporal reality or may remain as one with the Absolute, which is determined by level of mystical knowledge/understanding. Either way, while I may experience temporal "death," 'I' am immortal.

 

[osgart]

If a universe exists and God created it, how could it be outside of God's will?

Do you mean that because the material world is less than perfect it cannot be God's will?

That's what I mean.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How do atoms acquire and retain this information?

I'm under the impression it's regarding an atom's elemental characteristics.

 

[osgart]

How do atoms acquire and retain this information?

Well it's a bet. But particles once entangled maintain a non local relationship, instantly, though separated. Effect the super position of one, the other shows relationship.

 

[osgart]

I'm under the impression it's regarding an atom's elemental characteristics.

That too

 

[WalterTrull]

To me if a God exists, this universe is outside of God's will.

How can God create anything less than perfection?

Rats. I was with you there for a bit.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm under the impression it's regarding an atom's elemental characteristics.

Clear as mud, but anyway without a conscious entity that experiences, nothing matters.

 

[George-ananda]

Well it's a bet. But particles once entangled maintain a non local relationship, instantly, though separated. Effect the super position of one, the other shows relationship.

OK, but how does any of that relate to the thread topic?

Do you believe our consciousness (not our particles) continues after death? That is what I take to be the important question in this thread. My position is that consciousness is something fundamental and eternal and only temporarily incarnates physical forms.

 

[Araceli Cianna]

I don't think anything happens... I've always been rather spiritual, but weirdly for the most part have never expected there to be anything after death. Like, it's probably just the end, and I'm cool with it.