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“God loves you anyway” – does He really?

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.

The only Problem with God loves everyone just as you are, Pastor's, Preachers goes about teaching this concept,Then people will say, well if God loves me no matter how I am, Then those people who have been going to church since they were kids hearing this concept in church, If God loves me no matter how I am, So what if I'm an Atheist God loves me no matter how I am, So what if I'm gay, God loves me no matter who I am, and there are those who go out into the world drinking, parting, All the while these Pastor's, Preachers who taught them this concept that God loves you no matter how you are. Then Turns around and curse's these people who are only doing what they were taught.

I've met many people who teaches this concept that they heard from their Pastor's, Preachers teach.
And I say to them, why are you complaining about, you taught them, that God loves you no matter how you are, Now you want to criticize them, for doing what you and your Pastor's, Preachers have taught people.
This is just one of many reasons why I don't belong to any church, for the simple reason, that I am not going out telling people that God loves you no matter how you are, and then turn around and condemn them for doing what I was taught by my Pastor's, Preachers, Which makes me out to be a hypocrite. For saying one thing and then going against what I was saying.
It didn't take me long to see what I was doing. Teaching on one hand and then condemning on the other hand.

Is it any wonder why Jesus talks about people who comes in his name, calling themselves Christians and are not. But are deceving many people.

Matthew 24:5--"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many"

Who else besides Christians comes in the name of Christ = Christian.

So you have two groups of Christians in the world, one being a true Christian and the other a false Christian.

It's not hard to know the false Christians, when they teach you God loves you no matter how you are and then condemn you for following this teaching of theirs.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.

A parent understands.

I assume you are not a parent.

As a parent we love our children. We may not like or approve of everything we do but we love them regardless.

We are God's children. As such He loves all of us. He may not like or approve of some of the things we do, but He loves us nonetheless.

As for forgiveness or salvation. If you continue to blatantly do wrong after you have asked for forgiveness then the question comes to mind were you really sorry to begin with? If you had a child who continually stole money from you to buy drugs would you forgive them every single time and allow them to keep doing it? No good parent would. That's called being an enabler. At a certain point a parent has to put their foot down, and stop accepting apologies for activities the child is not genuinely sorry for.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
A parent understands.

I assume you are not a parent.

As a parent we love our children. We may not like or approve of everything we do but we love them regardless.
Circling back to my original objection, your view and version of parenting does not equal all parents. Being a parent does not automatically mean that one is understanding or even loving of their children. Not all parents are going to parent like you.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Circling back to my original objection, your view and version of parenting does not equal all parents. Being a parent does not automatically mean that one is understanding or even loving of their children. Not all parents are going to parent like you.

They should be. Or similar at least.

I am a cool Dad after all. :cool:


*as my kid looks over and rolls her eyes and calls me a nerd.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's not the use being used in the bible. Hence, why I bolded the biblical language as used in the 1200's. And yet even "zealous" is not necessarily flattering, and is often as negative as it is positive. And even still, the word used in the original text - as given to you - does not translate to "zealous". It does not translate to "lovingly protective" or other such interpretations. It means "jealous" in the sense of intolerance for the worship of other deities. Jealous of "his people," so much so that he denied them any contact with anything that might "tempt" them away from him. This is shown throughout the Old Testament.
You're still talking to me. :) God is present to lead anyone who will to the promises of God. So, jealous is good because it means that if you choose another 'god' you will be led by that one instead of The One. But, keep talking to me, if you want to.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
They should be. Or similar at least.
But they don't. It's why "being a parent" makes for a poor metaphor for deities. Ask David and Louise Turpin what being a parent means.

You're still talking to me.
Yes, I am. Because we're actually having a discussion now; of which I do appreciate, though we disagree still.

God is present to lead anyone who will to the promises of God. So, jealous is good because it means that if you choose another 'god' you will be led by that one instead of The One.
No. "Jealous" used in such a sense does not mean such a thing. It means - as displayed throughout the OT - that Yahweh fears his people (possession) leaving him and turning to other gods. It's not out of concern or protection - other people do just fine with the gods they worship - it is purely through self-interest and spiritual control. "Obey me, worship me, and prosper. Disobey and be destroyed."

Jealousy is never good.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
But they don't. It's why "being a parent" makes for a poor metaphor for deities. Ask David and Louise Turpin what being a parent means.

Its not fair to compare mentally ill people to everyone else. If they did using your logic. People would compare being gay to being a cannibalistic serial killer. But nobody thinks all LGBT are bad just because Jeffrey Dahmer was a cannibalistic serial killer.

The vast majority of parents care for their children. This is how our species had arrived ad we are today. So yes the parent metaphor is perfect.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Its not fair to compare mentally ill people to everyone else. If they did using your logic. People would compare being gay to being a cannibalistic serial killer.
I don't see how, as being homosexual and being cannibalistic have very little intrinsically in common. But the Turpins are parents. As were John List, William Bradford Bishop, Andrea Yates, Jeffrey MacDonald, Darlie Routier, Josh Powell, Diane Downs, Robert Fisher, Susan Smith, Elmer Crawford, and I'm sure many others.

My point is that being a parent doesn't automatically grant benevolence. There's no standard that a parent loves their children - in fact my great-grandmother infamously hated her children and grandchildren. Being a parent isn't a constant experience, and just as there are exceptional parents that rarely do wrong, there are terrible parents who do horrible things and haven't a shred of concern or love for their children.

The vast majority of parents care for their children. This is how our species had arrived ad we are today. So yes the parent metaphor is perfect.
Survival doesn't necessitate caring. How many children left on firehouse doorways by a parent that didn't care for them survive and grow to adulthood? How many neglected and scorned children endure their parents, and then flee the moment they come of age? The metaphor doesn't work because not only is it a single case that isn't outweighed by "a majority of parents," but the many instances in the bible that illustrate Yahweh's actions towards the Israelites - his people and "children" - do not paint a good picture.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
My point is that being a parent doesn't automatically grant benevolence. There's no standard that a parent loves their children - in fact my great-grandmother infamously hated her children and grandchildren. Being a parent isn't a constant experience, and just as there are exceptional parents that rarely do wrong, there are terrible parents who do horrible things and haven't a shred of concern or love for their children.

Sure there is good and bad in just about everything. If every parent strived to be good parents don't you think the world would be a better place? Even if just a little bit?
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Sure there is good and bad in just about everything. If every parent strived to be good parents don't you think the world would be a better place? Even if just a little bit?
Aye, I do. But I also think the world would be a better place if a lot of things happened that I know won't because the world got too small.

My point is that it doesn't mean much to just say "Of course god loves us, he's like a parent!" and compare it to a parent loving their child even when they're disobedient. Because, as given, there are some parents who don't love their children, even when they're not disobedient.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Aye, I do. But I also think the world would be a better place if a lot of things happened that I know won't because the world got too small.

My point is that it doesn't mean much to just say "Of course god loves us, he's like a parent!" and compare it to a parent loving their child even when they're disobedient. Because, as given, there are some parents who don't love their children, even when they're not disobedient.

I gotcha.

I still maintain my position though. So we will just have to agree to disagree and move on! Thanks for the discussion!
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
God can be spoken of with no pronoun.

Instead of saying, God has given us his laws to obey, you can say, God has given us God's laws to obey.

I've tried that. In a single paragraph or two, and in most circumstances, that works. Otherwise, it can become tedious, trite and obnoxious. "It"....get used to It. :)

I believe I read once the Coptic word for God is gender neutral. But obviously, an omnipotent God can be all things at once. That is what is means to be omnipotent.

But calling God "He" or "She" also betrays its anthropomorphic origin. If God is omnipotent, It is also omnipresent, and "omni-" means all in one. "He" also implies a possible "She", which would not be One.

God has no limitations so God can be every gender and no gender all at the same time. God can be an anthropomorphic type God as well as pantheistic type God all at the same time.

Precisely, God = It.

I think that people like Hitler must change into a different person to be able to exist in the dominion of God so to say, God forgives people like that who have zero respect for life, is nonsense, imo.

If there is a hereafter, we must necessarily judge ourselves in the Judgment Seat, bathed in the undeniable light of Truth. When faced with horrible pain and waste of who we were, we have the merciful option of oblivion, not hell. Why would God and the heavenly host want to listen, or even know about, the sadistic reality of hell. It's one of the most evident indicators that the invention of the Bible was the work of man alone, and sadistic men at that. Add to that, the descriptions of God (read Moses etc.) leading the "kill all the men, women and children" in the Israelite conquest of Canaan. And then there's the issue of human sacrifice (Abraham and Isaac, Jephthah's daughter, "God's son" Jesus)

No man or animal can die as as substitute for our repentance, the ONLY path to salvation--which Jesus and John the Baptist preached BTW.

A parent understands.

I assume you are not a parent.

As a parent, we are God's children. As such He loves all of us. He may not like or approve of some of the things we do, but He loves us nonetheless.
Can a parent love an unrepentant Hitler, or Jeffrey Dahmer? When we have no other choice, evil must be expunged to protect the rights of the innocent. If you do nothing, you become part of the evil.[/QUOTE]
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Aye, I do. But I also think the world would be a better place if a lot of things happened that I know won't because the world got too small.

My point is that it doesn't mean much to just say "Of course god loves us, he's like a parent!" and compare it to a parent loving their child even when they're disobedient. Because, as given, there are some parents who don't love their children, even when they're not disobedient.
So the entire discussion could have been avoided by adding the word "ideal" in front of parent? :p
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
The 'do what you like' and still be approved dogma is satan's.
God's love is conditional on us doing what we can to obey him. In this then comes repentance, punishment from sins committed if serious, even eternal damnation - as in eternal sleep in death.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
But calling God "He" or "She" also betrays its anthropomorphic origin. If God is omnipotent, It is also omnipresent, and "omni-" means all in one. "He" also implies a possible "She", which would not be One.

Why do you think our omnipotent God is bounded by the laws of physics or logic. Surely you can imagine and omnipotent God being in more than one place at the same time with more than one gender. Omnipotent means without limitations.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
According to some god loves anyone no matter how far the bottom of the **** pile they are, however being loved doesn't mean your out of the **** which is why people in the **** ask for God's help but they're still in the ****, go figure Imo.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
And that still falls in line with human jealousy. I grow so tired of this "wordplay" game, as it never does anything. If your god is "god-jealous" rather than "human-jealous", then perhaps he shouldn't have used the word "jealous".

The word translated "jealous" in Exodus 20:5 is "qanna'" used only with regard to Jehovah. It is not the same word that we use pertaining to human jealousy. It is not a negative quality but a positive one. He is fiercely protective of those whom he considers his children. Not all humans are seen that way however.
This pertains to God exacting exclusive devotion, not tolerating the worship of any rival gods in the minds of men. Such worship is futile because there are no other gods and the worship of them goes straight to his adversary by default. He does not want any of his children to fall into the hands of his arch enemy....a clever deceiver. (1 John 5:19)

Yet my point on love and parents still stands.

If you recall in the Genesis account of creation, God's love has always been conditional right from the beginning. Unlike humans, his love is not based just on sentiment, but on justice tempered with mercy. He is a lawmaker and a law enforcer and he has made us to be dependent upon his guidance for our eternal welfare. When humans spurned God's guidance in the beginning and broke his law, there was no basis to show mercy because they did not make a mistake due to some defect in themselves. They deliberately disobeyed because of a purely selfish motive. When they were questioned about their actions, each blamed someone else. There was no contrition ever expressed, so no mercy was shown. The full weight of the law they broke came upon their own heads.... and they died, alienated from their Creator....but who would rescue Adam's children from the poor example and the genetic defect left to them?

Adam's children have a reason to sin due to inherited imperfection, leading all of them in the wrong direction with sinful inclinations. The first murderer was produced within one generation, yet he was warned that he could overcome the emotions that led him to hate his brother enough to kill him. Premeditated murder was not forgivable. Cain showed no remorse either.

The offspring of Adam are the ones to whom God extends mercy, but only if it is warranted. Just because humans have a natural inclination to sin, they are still free moral agents. They can be tempted to sin, but it is not something they have no say in. Sin can be a master over us only if we submit to it. If we are overcome in a moment of weakness, then there is a possibility of forgiveness, but only if there is genuine repentance.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
By chance, do you have any children? If they do wrong, do you hate them?

IOW, "hate the sin, not the sinner".
Vee is talking about practicing wrong actions.

Look at Psalms 11:5.... if they "love" what is wrong, then they are practicing it.

An occasional misstep is different.
 
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