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“God loves you anyway” – does He really?

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
Does JW teach eternal damnation?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what... According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
By chance, do you have any children? If they do wrong, do you hate them?

IOW, "hate the sin, not the sinner".
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
By chance, do you have any children? If they do wrong, do you hate them?

IOW, "hate the sin, not the sinner".

I wouldn't hate them but patience can only stretch so far. If they kept doing wrong things I wouldn't pat them in the back and tell them to go on no matter how much I loved them.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I wouldn't hate them but patience can only stretch so far. If they kept doing wrong things I wouldn't pat them in the back and tell them to go on no matter how much I loved them.

There is a big difference between not loving someone as opposed to not liking someone. If you love someone you will always love that person; doesn't mean you will always like that person.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I wouldn't hate them but patience can only stretch so far. If they kept doing wrong things I wouldn't pat them in the back and tell them to go on no matter how much I loved them.
Ah, but the point is that you would still love them, right? Why would one hate their own children, especially since they might well repent, as in the case of the Parable of the Prodigal Son?

What I am not saying is that one should ignore or blindly excuse their actions without repentance.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I wouldn't hate them but patience can only stretch so far. If they kept doing wrong things I wouldn't pat them in the back and tell them to go on no matter how much I loved them.
So you would love them anyway and the title of this thread was either ill-conceived or slippery click-bait.

Now that that's clear, what would you like to talk about?
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ah, but the point is that you would still love them, right? Why would one hate their own children, especially since they might well repent, as in the case of the Parable of the Prodigal Son?

What I am not saying is that one should ignore or blindly excuse their actions without repentance.

If someone disappoints your beyond your limits that doesn't mean your love will transform into hate. You might just not want anything more to do with them and cut them off from your life.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
He loves people no matter what.

First Letter of John. In chapter 4, verse 8. It does not say that
God is a lover, but God is love. A love called agape, which is a
purely other-directed love, a love that seeks no response and demands no return, a love centered totally on the beloved. The damned cannot cause God not to love them; they cannot make God be not God.

Mt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment." "The second is like it "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?


Mt 18:21
"I do not say to you seven times," "but seventy times seven."
Unless you think this was an order to offer 490 pardons before calling it quits, it is a command to forgive without limit.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.
I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

No it does not. Being loved by God has nothing to do with morality. Being loved by God has nothing to do with blessings and curses. I have seen way too many examples of devout people living a life with nothing but curses and misery. I have seen immoral people live lives with wealth and privilege. I think God is indifferent to our morality with each other based on my life experiences and evidence.

Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He
But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

It is not clear God bothered in the first place. As far as I can tell the Bible was written by men not God. The concepts in the Bible are man's laws and principles. Having morality is important. But that is not the same thing as saying the Bible is the word of God because it says so. There's a lot of money and power in religion. People have motivations to manipulate the weak minded.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

We have secular laws and law enforcement for a reason. As a society we value justice. But valuing justice has nothing to do with God.

It's not a question whether someone deserves God's love. That is not for you or anyone else to decide. No one speaks for God. However, I choose to believe in a God of unconditional love who loves us no matter what we do in our lives. My faith is in a God of unconditional love. It may be right, it may be wrong. But that is my faith.

The problem with obeying "God's commands" is nobody knows what they really are. People pretending to speak for God use the idea of "God's commands" to control and manipulate the weak minded.

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

Yes, it does make sense and here is why. An all-loving all-power creator God loves ALL of His creation equally no matter what. All of God's creation is divinely perfect no matter how bad some of the immoral behavior may be. Based on human experiments there is no amount of unnecessary evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. God is clearly pro-choice. People treat each other badly and immorally is just a fact of life. If you want justice, it's not going to come from God. Justice comes from us. What is moral and immoral is defined by the secular laws of the time. As far as I can tell, God is mostly indifferent to the affairs of men.

Nature is relentless in executing the laws of physics exactly as they are defined. As far as I can tell God is a passive observer.

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.

That's really what this comes down to. Do you give up your personal authority about morality and God to words in a book written by men 2000 years ago. I think being a moral person is important. I just don't think being a moral person comes from the words in the Bible. I don't think justice comes from the Bible either. And I certainly do not trust anyone pretending to speak for God. Pretending to speak for God has got to be the height of human hubris and possibly man's greatest possible sin.

Everyone has access to God equally. Nobody owns your conversation with and about God.

Absolute authority comes from within. If anyone tells you differently they are trying to sell you something or get you to join them in a power cult.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Mt 18:21
"I do not say to you seven times," "but seventy times seven."
Unless you think this was an order to offer 490 pardons before calling it quits, it is a command to forgive without limit.

That is true in the case of genuine repentance, not when people take advantage and make a fool of someone else.
Imagine that you give some money to a banker to invest in your name. Instead of investing it he uses your money to go on vacation. He then apologizes and you accept that's he's sorry and give him more money to invest. This time he buys a new car. The apologizing starts again. How many more times are you willing to believe him before you take your business somewhere else?
When Jesus told his disciples to keep forgiving, he didn't mean they should continuously allow people to profit from their good will. Unfortunately many people spin it that way to make excuses for themselves.
 

socharlie

Active Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.
this is Greek vs English: "love" is not a good translation , a better one , more comprehensive is "care." God cares of us all. God sustains us all. God wants us all to become caring of our brothers.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
First Letter of John. In chapter 4, verse 8. It does not say that
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment."

Replace the word "love" with "obey" is more like it. In my mind, love is little acts of kindness for someone without any expectations for reciprocation. The Bibles idea of love is some twisted sadomasochistic expression of obeying authority. It's too creepy for me.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I'm no scholar, and I could be wrong about this, but I don't think there's much in the bible to support the notion that the Christian God loves unconditionally. Rather, it seems to me that among the conditions He sets for His love is faith or belief in him, and possibly "good acts", etc. In short, His love is all too conditional, all too human, rather than godlike. That is one of the major reasons I do not find His existence credible.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
this is Greek vs English: "love" is not a good translation , a better one , more comprehensive is "care." God cares of us all. God sustains us all. God wants us all to become caring of our brothers.

I think personal responsibility is more important than passively hoping God will take care of us. If we poop in our own bed, it is up to us to clean it up.
 
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