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UC Professor. No evidence in the Bible attributing Satan as being evil.

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
UCLA research professor Henry A Kelly
after a 40 year study.

2006 University article.........

What the Devil? Prince of Darkness Is Misunderstood, Says UCLA Author of New Satan ‘Biography’

Satan is not actually evil and is misunderstood.

When a person thinks about it, there's really not any evidence in the Bible that indicates Satan as actually being evil.

Thoughts or comments?

This Professor must be illiterate or morally bankrupt.

John 8:44 KJV

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Being a murderer and liar count would count as evil. Soz;)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This Professor must be illiterate or morally bankrupt.

John 8:44 KJV

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Being a murderer and liar count would count as evil. Soz;)

Isn't John 8:44 a lie itself?

Where in the Bible has Satan actually lied or murdered anybody?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Isn't John 8:44 a lie itself?

Where in the Bible has Satan actually lied or murdered anybody?

Consider the source. Jesus is speaking in John 8:44.

Now someone can debate what Satan is or is not all day. I've got no problem with that.

But the Bible clearly says he is evil as shown in John 8:44. So this Professor doesn't know what he is talking about as far as the Bible not portraying Satan as evil.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Consider the source. Jesus is speaking in John 8:44.

Now someone can debate what Satan is or is not all day. I've got no problem with that.

But the Bible clearly says he is evil as shown in John 8:44. So this Professor doesn't know what he is talking about as far as the Bible not portraying Satan as evil.

Sure it says it, that's clear enough, but the Bible still gives no accounts of Satan doing any of that.

Some people could refer to the Book of Job for instance by way of rebuttal, but that would effectively make God a co-conspirator for murder by which Satan was given God's permission.

So there clearly are gaps in the Bible that don't fill in the blanks in regards to Satan being, "The father of Lies" or a "Murderer from the start" that would justify the accusations made in the book of John.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Sure it says it, that's clear enough, but the Bible still gives no accounts of Satan doing any of that.

Some people could refer to the Book of Job for instance by way of rebuttal, but that would effectively make God a co-conspirator for murder by which Satan was given God's permission.

So there clearly are gaps in the Bible that don't fill in the blanks in regards to Satan being, "The father of Lies" or a "Murderer from the start" that would justify the accusations made in the book of John.

Pay close attention to John 8:44 "he was a murderer from the beginning" this is a reference to Genesis when the serpent (Satan) tempted Adam and Eve with the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

For context.

Genesis 2: 16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Here is the first lie Satan told.

Genesis 3:1-4

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The Murder is that of Adam and Eve. Which caused Adam and Eve to lose their immortality. Effectively murdering them by causing them to be able to die.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Regarding the whole "murder" thing, god has a much higher body count. As for lying: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Since you pride yourself on logic. If you consider God a murderer then you must also consider any woman who had an abortion a murderer. Since when did you become pro-life? :p
 

LionLooking

Member
Since you pride yourself on logic. If you consider God a murderer then you must also consider any woman who had an abortion a murderer. Since when did you become pro-life? :p
I don't see how that makes sense.
God, according to the Bible, killed whole cities of living, breathing people - abortions (if done early enough) kill clusters of cells. The comparison is not valid.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Pay close attention to John 8:44 "he was a murderer from the beginning" this is a reference to Genesis when the serpent (Satan) tempted Adam and Eve with the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

For context.

Genesis 2: 16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Here is the first lie Satan told.

Genesis 3:1-4

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The Murder is that of Adam and Eve. Which caused Adam and Eve to lose their immortality. Effectively murdering them by causing them to be able to die.
Do Christians believe Adam and Eve are now dead forever?
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
John 8:44 alludes to Cain. Cain is the first murderer. John here uses the term 'Devil' not 'Satan'. The word 'Devil' refers to an accuser. He's telling them that they are descendants of Cain instead of Abraham and liars, because they are accusing him of things.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Since you pride yourself on logic. If you consider God a murderer then you must also consider any woman who had an abortion a murderer. Since when did you become pro-life? :p

What an odd non sequitur.

I don't see how that makes sense.
God, according to the Bible, killed whole cities of living, breathing people - abortions (if done early enough) kill clusters of cells. The comparison is not valid.

Yeah, this. According to the bible, God also sent some bears to maul children to death for teasing some prophet.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I don't see how that makes sense.
God, according to the Bible, killed whole cities of living, breathing people - abortions (if done early enough) kill clusters of cells. The comparison is not valid.

Meh :p
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
John 8:44 alludes to Cain. Cain is the first murderer. John here uses the term 'Devil' not 'Satan'. The word 'Devil' refers to an accuser. He's telling them that they are descendants of Cain instead of Abraham and liars, because they are accusing him of things.

Cain is the first human to murder. True dat. But Satan murdered Adam and Eve.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Consider the source. Jesus is speaking in John 8:44.

The source is an author writing nearly 100 years later with "eyewitness" accounts, passed down over and again.

The quote was written in Greek, translated again and again, until you finally have an English version you can understand.

How does he have a direct quote from Jesus exactly? And did you "consider the source" at all?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
This Professor must be illiterate or morally bankrupt.

John 8:44 KJV

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Being a murderer and liar count would count as evil. Soz;)
There is a difference between "devil" and "Devil." The Bible capitalizes proper nouns.
 
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