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Resurrection of Christ - What's the evidence for and against a literal resurrection

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Although Jesus taught an almost exclusively Jewish audience, He was largely rejected by His own people, and it was the Gentiles, not the Jews that became the champions of Christianity.
Yeshua wasn't rejected by our people, thousands came to hear him at the Sermon on the Mount, thousands were following him after...

The leaders of our people were the ones who rejected him, and then systematically destroyed the true followers by the fake religion of Christianity (John, Paul and Simon the stone ((petros)).
Paul was cetainly pivitol in successfully communicating the gospel of Christ to the gentiles as you say.
Paul didn't teach the Good News we see prophesied in Isaiah & Yeshua's Gospel...

Yeshua's Gospel was teaching that by his coming it is a sign that the Kingdom shall come (Messianic Age); Paul taught a dead Gospel, that Christ came to die for the sins of the world, and by his resurrection we're raised with him unto Grace.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
dsc00642.jpg
DSC00539.JPG
Presently, I do not believe that the power of healing exists any longer.
Hello Grandiseur! :)
I think it might, in fact I believe that it does. Imagine that, me, having faith where you do not?

An extraordinary meeting between Harry Edwards (Healer) of Leatherhead, England and my first wife in 1973 coincided with the ceasing of all her Epileptic fits for three years, sadly returning during the same month that Harry died.

On Monday 16th October between 1400-1430 hours I received 'hands' healing at a Whitstable Spiritual chapel (England) and between then and Wednesday 18th October all signs, feelings, traces, biopsies, scans, bronchoscopies and other investigations etc of an urgent pro-forma lung cancer investigation (upon me) dissappeared or turned up negative, to the clear amazement of the consultant, my wife and self at that meeting.

I'm still stunned by it all.

Jesus rose not as a human but as a spirit being, in that kind of body. So, that he rose into the heavens is beyond what I have knowledge about. I have no idea what can and cannot be done by spirit beings. If it says he did it, is good enough for me. I go fully by the Bible, but use a harmonious interpretation.
I can perceive why so few Christians have clambered in to this thread. For the vast majority of Christians in the World their religion is a Faith, they have Faith in Jesus and the Bible, and therefore Evidence, Proof, Certainty etc is not an issue for them..... they simply HAVE FAITH. You know that I cannot share that with Christians, but I can respect their Faith.

Here is an image that is interesting. What it means is beyond me:
911%252C%2BJesus%252C%2Bghost%252C%2BJoseph%252C%2BW56%252C%2Bconspiracy%252C%2BUFO%252C%2BUFOs%252C%2Bsighting%252C%2Bsightings%252C%2Balien%252C%2Baliens%252C%2Bbase%252C%2Bmoon%252C%2Blunar%252C%2Bsurface%252C%2Bnasa%252C%2Bphil%2Bplait%252C%2Bbad%2Bastronomer%252C%2Banomaly%252C%2BMars%252C%2BAnomalies%252C%2Bjapan%252C%2Bjapanese%252C%2BDavid%2BIcke%252C%2BToday%2BShow%252C%2Blife%252C%2Bbiology%252C%2BJusin%2BBieber%252C222.png
I don't know whether the photo above was analogue or digital, but there are some easy techniques to test a JPEG photograph for truth.
1. If possible and available, place the computer cursor on the JPEG thumnail and it should show the JPEG number in Upper Case letters, if in lower case it has been altered. If the camera model, minute, hour, day, month and year of the picture is not shown then it is altered.

My mother didn't like people orthe World but she loved her Grandson and our Cat dearly. After her death stationary transparent 'orbs' began to appear all around photos of the cat, and these orbs became frantic around photos of the grandson.

The pic of her grandson (altered for this demonstration to disfigure his features which has therefore altered the JPEG number to lower case!) was taken on 03/27/05 at 16.32gmt.

The pic taken of the cat was taken on 02/04/05 at 17.53gmt.

WE just never know......! :)

dsc00642.jpg
DSC00539.JPG
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
View attachment 20004 View attachment 20007
Hello Grandiseur! :)
I think it might, in fact I believe that it does. Imagine that, me, having faith where you do not?

An extraordinary meeting between Harry Edwards (Healer) of Leatherhead, England and my first wife in 1973 coincided with the ceasing of all her Epileptic fits for three years, sadly returning during the same month that Harry died.

On Monday 16th October between 1400-1430 hours I received 'hands' healing at a Whitstable Spiritual chapel (England) and between then and Wednesday 18th October all signs, feelings, traces, biopsies, scans, bronchoscopies and other investigations etc of an urgent pro-forma lung cancer investigation (upon me) dissappeared or turned up negative, to the clear amazement of the consultant, my wife and self at that meeting.

I'm still stunned by it all.


I can perceive why so few Christians have clambered in to this thread. For the vast majority of Christians in the World their religion is a Faith, they have Faith in Jesus and the Bible, and therefore Evidence, Proof, Certainty etc is not an issue for them..... they simply HAVE FAITH. You know that I cannot share that with Christians, but I can respect their Faith.


I don't know whether the photo above was analogue or digital, but there are some easy techniques to test a JPEG photograph for truth.
1. If possible and available, place the computer cursor on the JPEG thumnail and it should show the JPEG number in Upper Case letters, if in lower case it has been altered. If the camera model, minute, hour, day, month and year of the picture is not shown then it is altered.

My mother didn't like people orthe World but she loved her Grandson and our Cat dearly. After her death stationary transparent 'orbs' began to appear all around photos of the cat, and these orbs became frantic around photos of the grandson.

The pic of her grandson (altered for this demonstration to disfigure his features which has therefore altered the JPEG number to lower case!) was taken on 03/27/05 at 16.32gmt.

The pic taken of the cat was taken on 02/04/05 at 17.53gmt.

WE just never know......! :)

View attachment 20004 View attachment 20007
Well, even my own father was perhaps recipient of some form of limited healing.
However, when I say that healing has ceased, I refer specifically to the apostle kind of healing. This is where any illness, deformity, or broken bones, amputation is cured by someone putting their hands on a person and saying, 'be healed in the name of Christ.' (or some such phrase) And, it heals instantaneously.

I have myself prayed for a healing that was within what I thought my be granted, and it was, but I still suffer from diabetes and shall die from it or old age, whichever takes me first.

My grandson was visiting from far far away, and while on the island I live on was stung by some strong Man of War type thing; in either case, he needed medical attention of the best kind. We prayed for him and he was somehow redirected in the ambulance to the hospital where the leading expert on this happened to be at the moment, visiting, or? I forget. So, we thanked God that he was given the best treatment available.

So, I know that God helps us, just not quite like when Jesus walked the earth.
Pics
Your pictures are amazing, and you are not a believer? How is that possible! ;)
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Although Jesus taught an almost exclusively Jewish audience, He was largely rejected by His own people, and it was the Gentiles, not the Jews that became the champions of Christianity. The Greeks certainly had Gods that resurrected from the dead. It is hard to put ourselves in a cultural mindset of peoples living two thousand years ago, who were part of an empire, male dominanted, heirachical with slavery, poor levels of literacy and education, and no doubt much more superstitious compared to the peoples of today. So on the balance of probabilities, teaching about a God that was resurrected from both a literal and spiritual perspective makes sense. I'm open to hearing more specifically about why they would have accepted the message as solely a spiritual resurrection. What is apparent though, is by the end of the first century of Christianity a belief in a literal, not just spiritual resurection was the norm. The Jews countered this norm with narratives of their own (eg the body of Christ was stolen).

Reading the gospels, certainly provides a sense of a literal resurrection, but there are inconsistencies in accounts between the four gospels, coupled with Jesus not being recognosed initially by His nearest and dearest, and being able to move through solid objects. Paul was cetainly pivitol in successfully communicating the gospel of Christ to the gentiles as you say.
If one look at Greek demigods to Roman God emperors, after death they are said to ascend to heaven in a new glorious spiritual body. For example, a comet was said to be the celestial body of Ceasar ascending heaven. So pagans would be more comfortable with a spiritual body resurrection and ascension.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Many Christians believe Jesus was crucified and literally rose from the dead. An empty tomb and the appearance of Jesus before many as recorded in the gospels are cited as irrefutable proofs by conservative Christians.

Dr Bart Ehrhart, Christian and biblical scholar has argued:

'Even if we want to believe in the resurrection of Jesus, that belief is a theological belief. You can’t prove the resurrection. It’s not susceptible to historical evidence. It’s faith. Believers believe it and take it on faith, and history cannot prove it.'

Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus? The Craig-Ehrman Debate | Reasonable Faith

The resurrection as part of an allegorical narrative assists us understand the eternal nature of the soul and the power of Christ's Teachings to bestow new spiritual upon those who follow Him.

So did Christ really rise from the dead and what's the evidence He did? Is there evidence to support He didn't?

With all due respect to my Christian brothers and sisters, why is Christ's Resurrection so fundamental to Christian belief?
Its important because because on the one hand they know its true they have zero idea why it's true. Since they have zero understanding of why it's true , they automatically default to scientific empericism. You can see it in how the doubting Thomas narrative is read. How that is read is determined by how you understand. Think of it as a Buddhist koan. The text isn't a road map, and certainly the writers clearly understood this. So it was also a teaching tool as well. But theology developed off to the side and it took on its own reality. That reality has zero to do with the text it only is good for seeing how our thinking has developed over 2,000 years intellectually. I use theology as a tool to see how the intellect is functioning in context to the text. I can read psychologists and in fact everyone In culture of "I believe" I don't believe" I am agnostic" that's normal three states of mind reinforcing each other that we call culture.

Is that the text? No, it encapsulates that trinity and the writers knew it. There is nothing simple about that text it's read simplistically and the earliest teachers in Christianity understood this. That is not true today although there are some areas and people who are in Christianity that are more clear. But the current state really is no different than in jesus time or Buddhas time. The exact same thing. Absolutely no different just new clothing is all.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
they have Faith in Jesus and the Bible
Christians are told in Hebrews 11:1 to have faith in the things not seen, yet hoped for... Thus many often have faith in the death of jesus, and his resurrection.

If they had more faith in the Bible, they'd reject Paul by seeing how prophecies are fulfilled in the Tanakh, that declares Christianity a deception.

Plus if they had more faith in Yeshua they'd get the name right, and question that Paul and Yeshua disagree on nearly everything.
when I say that healing has ceased, I refer specifically to the apostle kind of healing.
Part of the reason the healing doesn't continue in miraculous quantities, is because it is only relying on faith and not medicine...

In Mark 6:13, and James 5:14 the Disciples healed with the Anointing Oil; people are called Christians as it means followers of the Anointed one (Christ).

When the anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24) is made properly with Kaneh-Bosem (Cannabis), then it makes a molecular compound; where all the ingredients in the Holy oil are known medicines already.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You have to goad people all the time, either using this or your more popular use of the word 'ignorance' in its various forms.

You are going to be so piissed when the end prophecies begin and you are left out in the cold because of your unbelief.

Atheists believe in chaos, non id, having been the creating power, thus I name it aptly, the chaos god, your god whether you like it or not. Now, get off my back. You always push like a small child, in so many ways. Never just let the thing rest. Go away now. My last post to you on this subject. Report whatever you like.

This is Exactly why people leave christ. Its a total turn off that if a questioning atheist seeker is turned down for asking questions without scripture instead of helping him find christ you rather let god do it and ignore god's creation.

Christianity is a communal faith not individual. If we cant see christ words through your speech, and the bible doesnt magically make people believe, what you say is leading people away from christ.

Sorry @adrian009
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Well, even my own father was perhaps recipient of some form of limited healing.
However, when I say that healing has ceased, I refer specifically to the apostle kind of healing. This is where any illness, deformity, or broken bones, amputation is cured by someone putting their hands on a person and saying, 'be healed in the name of Christ.' (or some such phrase) And, it heals instantaneously.

I have myself prayed for a healing that was within what I thought my be granted, and it was, but I still suffer from diabetes and shall die from it or old age, whichever takes me first.
Next time I go to that chapel, if the same healer is there I will ask her if she can heal 'Grandiseur', an internet name somewhere in the World and see what she says and does. :)
The diabetes quacks are getting very clever now, but I expect that you already know that.

My grandson was visiting from far far away, and while on the island I live on was stung by some strong Man of War type thing; in either case, he needed medical attention of the best kind. We prayed for him and he was somehow redirected in the ambulance to the hospital where the leading expert on this happened to be at the moment, visiting, or? I forget. So, we thanked God that he was given the best treatment available.

So, I know that God helps us, just not quite like when Jesus walked the earth.

Maybe technology can be the new miracle?
I'll bet that techno-limbs and sensors will be available in 100 years. Already there are techno-hearts. It just depends on how bigger number one is credited with in their bank account, that needs a miracle as well. :)

Pics
Your pictures are amazing, and you are not a believer? How is that possible! ;)
That's just me, I guess. Some healers aren't Christian, and some 'ghost' hunters are atheists.
We're just part of the human mix.[/QUOTE]
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christians are told in Hebrews 11:1 to have faith in the things not seen, yet hoped for... Thus many often have faith in the death of jesus, and his resurrection.

If they had more faith in the Bible, they'd reject Paul by seeing how prophecies are fulfilled in the Tanakh, that declares Christianity a deception.

Plus if they had more faith in Yeshua they'd get the name right, and question that Paul and Yeshua disagree on nearly everything.
Ah well, you know what I think about Paul, and the Christian Jesus.
Yeshua son of Joseph the handworker, who (no doubt) worked as a handworker himself until his talents lifted him to the degree of magi, just doesn't resemble Paul's spin.

Part of the reason the healing doesn't continue in miraculous quantities, is because it is only relying on faith and not medicine...

In Mark 6:13, and James 5:14 the Disciples healed with the Anointing Oil; people are called Christians as it means followers of the Anointed one (Christ).

When the anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24) is made properly with Kaneh-Bosem (Cannabis), then it makes a molecular compound; where all the ingredients in the Holy oil are known medicines already.

In my opinion. :innocent:
I didn't know that about cannabis. Our laws in England are utterly stupid, with police racing in all directions after cannabis, while they will no longer attend shops after thefts of under £200 in value even to collect thieves. Shop staff don't actually have a power of arrest of shop thieves now unless the thieves have hurt somebody or stolen over £200 of property.
But cannabis ........... they'll bust your door down!
:shrug:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
You are going to be so piissed when the end prophecies begin and you are left out in the cold because of your unbelief.
Hi again.......
Many Christians mention the 'Heaven-Hell' thing (in different words) and give the 'we'll be ok, you'll be in trouble' angle.
I'm a Deist, was dead for countless eons before life, and it was alright.
If I am right, then you will be alright. :)

Atheists believe in chaos, non id, having been the creating power, thus I name it aptly, the chaos god, your god whether you like it or not............
Yes.
As a Deist I do believe that my Deity is everything (and nothing) and that all is chaos, that is true.
In fact I can now see that most atheists must believe in chaos as you say.
Only theists could reasonably believe in an interested and loving Deity.
For me I just cannot change what I perceive, I never had a choice, I just saw what I saw and see what I see.
But you're right that we should all respect each other's philosophies, beliefs, faiths etc as long as they are not harmful.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I listen to a number of modern psychic sources and my current best opinion is that Jesus was on the borderline between life/death when taken down from the cross. He recovered himself with psychic energies and abilities he learned in the east (Himalaya region). He went with and married Mary Magdalene and lived in southern France. They had five children, two of which died very young.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
So did Christ really rise from the dead and what's the evidence He did? Is there evidence to support He didn't?

With all due respect to my Christian brothers and sisters, why is Christ's Resurrection so fundamental to Christian belief?
We were attaching bells with string to corpses not too long ago in case they woke up in the coffins. It's not too hard to imagine a religion developed around a weird medical quirk. While I loathe John with every fiber of my being, he's the only one to include details that makes me think the Romans pierced his side and relieved some sort of fluid buildup. Three days later, he was fine.

I believe the death and resurrection to be distractions to the Way. Romans lined entire roads with crosses and people wake up from death every day ... in hospitals or elsewhere.

Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Well, duh. Paul isn't focused on the Way. He focused on some shallow bumper sticker theology because it's an easier sell.

17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
Nothing stops an all-powerful God from forgiving me.

No reliable evidence for the resurrection that I know of. Since it has never been observed and other gods and demigods claim some sort of resurrection it is not very believable either.
But, again, we're not talking modern medicine here. "Resurrections" will happen to anyone we didn't properly know was dead. edit: Note that John the Baptist doesn't come back. It's almost like resurrections only occur if the cause of "death" is vague. Something as (ahem) "clear cut" as beheading ensures God's not respawning you. :)

Do you accept Muhammad, Gautama Buddha having existed?
I've learned I should probably just accept all the religious players everywhere as they have about the same evidence of existing. Big fan of Krishna, who is much better written than Jesus. :)

When we then see how strong the first century church was in resisting outright murder and persecution, you would have to ask, why did these people go to their deaths for the sake of faith in Christ and God?!
Fanaticism will make people do funny/tragic things.

Thus, this early church's very survival is evidence of Christ's existence.
Hinduism is an extremely old religion. Must mean Vishnu, Shiva, and all the rest are real too.

Christ is promised to come and turn earth into a Paradise under one government, one rule, eliminate war, sickness, hunger, mega rich, the wicked ones who think they can commit any crime, white or black, without having to answer for it.
Both types of paradises, heaven and Eden, had ... "issues". Satan led a rebellion in heaven and Adam and Eve loved them some fruit. So, clearly, even WITH Paradise, nothing lasts forever.

I think it can be shown that the small close group of Jesus followers who launched the movement did indeed believe that Jesus had risen from the dead. That's no reason to believe them of course.
Yeah, Jesus, I was born in Memphis, TN. Had to hear about Elvis all the time. :)

Here is an image that is interesting. What it means is beyond me:
Context is important: it's the cloud edge illuminated. You can see the cloud edge continue past the spotlight.

The proof is fulfillment of prophecies, Yeshua Elohim sits at the right hand of God Most High (EL Elyon)...
Who saw him? If sinners can't be in the presence of God, then no human can attest to the seating arrangements, right?

I don't debate with atheists.
I'm not one. You're still wrong.

Now I am non denominational and just go by the Bible.
Go with God. He's more interesting. :)

Go have a beer or something
Yuck: beer. I'm with Jesus: wine is fine. :)

You are going to be so piissed when the end prophecies begin and you are left out in the cold because of your unbelief.
You're going to be confused if the end times come and it's Ragnarok instead of the Apocalypse.

Yeshua wasn't rejected by our people, thousands came to hear him at the Sermon on the Mount, thousands were following him after...
It's kind of like listening to all the numbers in the OT about the conquest of Canaan. Funny how there are always so many people prior to skyscrapers. It's almost like they all exaggerate or something.

trump-inauguration-crowd.jpg

"I had more of an audience than anyone else has ever had ever." -- some guy with poor counting skills
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We were attaching bells with string to corpses not too long ago in case they woke up in the coffins. It's not too hard to imagine a religion developed around a weird medical quirk. While I loathe John with every fiber of my being, he's the only one to include details that makes me think the Romans pierced his side and relieved some sort of fluid buildup. Three days later, he was fine.

I believe the death and resurrection to be distractions to the Way. Romans lined entire roads with crosses and people wake up from death every day ... in hospitals or elsewhere.


Well, duh. Paul isn't focused on the Way. He focused on some shallow bumper sticker theology because it's an easier sell.


Nothing stops an all-powerful God from forgiving me.


But, again, we're not talking modern medicine here. "Resurrections" will happen to anyone we didn't properly know was dead. edit: Note that John the Baptist doesn't come back. It's almost like resurrections only occur if the cause of "death" is vague. Something as (ahem) "clear cut" as beheading ensures God's not respawning you. :)


I've learned I should probably just accept all the religious players everywhere as they have about the same evidence of existing. Big fan of Krishna, who is much better written than Jesus. :)


Fanaticism will make people do funny/tragic things.


Hinduism is an extremely old religion. Must mean Vishnu, Shiva, and all the rest are real too.


Both types of paradises, heaven and Eden, had ... "issues". Satan led a rebellion in heaven and Adam and Eve loved them some fruit. So, clearly, even WITH Paradise, nothing lasts forever.


Yeah, Jesus, I was born in Memphis, TN. Had to hear about Elvis all the time. :)


Context is important: it's the cloud edge illuminated. You can see the cloud edge continue past the spotlight.


Who saw him? If sinners can't be in the presence of God, then no human can attest to the seating arrangements, right?


I'm not one. You're still wrong.


Go with God. He's more interesting. :)


Yuck: beer. I'm with Jesus: wine is fine. :)


You're going to be confused if the end times come and it's Ragnarok instead of the Apocalypse.


It's kind of like listening to all the numbers in the OT about the conquest of Canaan. Funny how there are always so many people prior to skyscrapers. It's almost like they all exaggerate or something.

trump-inauguration-crowd.jpg

"I had more of an audience than anyone else has ever had ever." -- some guy with poor counting skills

Wow!! Look at that crowd! It is UGE!!
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
"I had more of an audience than anyone else has ever had ever." -- some guy with poor counting skills
Yes agree, we can't say Yeshua had a 'huge' following; as saying thousands of people followed him.
Big fan of Krishna, who is much better written than Jesus.
The Bhagavad Gita is fluidly written as poetry; whereas the Synoptic Gospel writers are a poorly written subjective opinion of a case of what might have been said.

Yet within the Parables of Yeshua is some advanced thinking - They link over many prophecies in the Tanakh, showing a metaphoric concept becoming reality; tho appearing simple.
If sinners can't be in the presence of God, then no human can attest to the seating arrangements, right?
That stems from Pauline doctrine 'all are under sin, and there is no God' (Psalms 14:1).

There have been multiple places in Biblical text we can show people witnessing the Throne of God, with Heaven surrounding.
Who saw him?
This isn't discernible clearly from the text of the New Testament...

Yet based on prophetic fulfillment within the Tanakh, that is what is meant to take place... The Lord's own right Arm shall accomplish all these things.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Evidence, what is it? In a court of law, does the court accept eye witness accounts?! Or, does this evidence have to be objects such as stones, books, swords, -- physical objects that one can touch and feel?!

Do you accept Muhammad, Gautama Buddha having existed? Why so? Because of witnesses and their testimony to this fact. When we then see how strong the first century church was in resisting outright murder and persecution, you would have to ask, why did these people go to their deaths for the sake of faith in Christ and God?!

Here we have a combination of things. The apostles and disciples who first assembled around Christ saw him rise and gave witness about this; they also were witness (many of them) to his miraculous healings, even resurrections by his hand. However, even after his death, the miraculous powers to heal remained for decades by the apostles hands and some of the early disciples. Just remember how one of the apostles resurrected Tabitha:
36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. 37 And it came to pass in those days, that she fell sick, and died: and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper chamber. 38 And as Lydda was nigh unto Joppa, the disciples, hearing that Peter was there, sent two men unto him, entreating him, Delay not to come on unto us. 39 And Peter arose and went with them. And when he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and showing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them. 40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down and prayed; and turning to the body, he said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes; and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41 And he gave her his hand, and raised her up; and calling the saints and widows, he presented her alive.​
So when not only the witnesses told about Christ's rising, but also had with them through several decades miraculous cures, even resurrections, the reason for the power of the early church to motivate its followers is clear. Thus, this early church's very survival is evidence of Christ's existence.

While these powers died out after the apostles had passed, as promised, nonetheless, the evidence for us still exist in their witness through scripture. We get this confirmed by the power of prayer among some things.

The teaching is what the Christian hope hinges on. Christ is promised to come and turn earth into a Paradise under one government, one rule, eliminate war, sickness, hunger, mega rich, the wicked ones who think they can commit any crime, white or black, without having to answer for it.

As Christ promised believers and unbelievers, he shall come back and make all pay as they deserve, some with mercy and others without.

"...does the court accept eye witness accounts?!"

Only if the eyewitness is available to testify. Someone saying that someone else claimed to have witnessed something is called hearsay and is NOT accepted by the courts.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
This is a problem for a conservative Christian worldview as Paul never witnessed the resurrected Christ, instead he heard the words of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9:1-9


Paul's experience was long after the 40 days of Jesus's alleged appearances after His crucifixion. So Paul did not see the resurrected Jesus, yet he likens his non-resurrection experience to those that supposedly did see their Lord. It therefore makes sense Paul in Corinthians is writing of resurrection experiences that were a mystical experience or part of an allegorical story, don't you think? This allegorical narrative and/or mystical experience still places Christ's resurrection as central to Christian belief. It also emphasises the spiritual over the physical.

I don't see a problem at all or believe Paul's experiences with Jesus were merely mystical. Clearly, if Paul saw or had an encounter with Jesus 40 days or any number of days after the crucifixion then it was the risen from the dead, resurrected Person of Jesus. Another thing is that Paul had more than that one interaction (on the Damascus road) with the risen Lord Jesus Christ. These personal interactions included Jesus giving Paul information he otherwise would not have had. For example, Paul was not present at the last supper, yet he received the details about it directly from the resurrected Jesus.

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 1 Corinthians 11:23-26
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Clearly the apostle Paul argues fervently for the importance of the resurrection. However if you consider St Paul's words earlier in the chapter we read:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

1 Corinthians 15:6-8

This is a problem for a conservative Christian worldview as Paul never witnessed the resurrected Christ, instead he heard the words of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9:1-9
I'm not sure why you say this is a problem. Certainly Paul didn't see it as a problem. I don't know of any "conservative Christian" sees it as a problem either.

But what evidence? You stated it:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once;


500 Witness is a pretty good case for a court.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Many Christians believe Jesus was crucified and literally rose from the dead. An empty tomb and the appearance of Jesus before many as recorded in the gospels are cited as irrefutable proofs by conservative Christians.

Dr Bart Ehrhart, Christian and biblical scholar has argued:

'Even if we want to believe in the resurrection of Jesus, that belief is a theological belief. You can’t prove the resurrection. It’s not susceptible to historical evidence. It’s faith. Believers believe it and take it on faith, and history cannot prove it.'

Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus? The Craig-Ehrman Debate | Reasonable Faith

The resurrection as part of an allegorical narrative assists us understand the eternal nature of the soul and the power of Christ's Teachings to bestow new spiritual upon those who follow Him.

So did Christ really rise from the dead and what's the evidence He did? Is there evidence to support He didn't?

With all due respect to my Christian brothers and sisters, why is Christ's Resurrection so fundamental to Christian belief?

How important the resurection is depends on who a person believes Jesus is. If only a prophet as some believe, then the resurection would be of little importance. However to the Christian the resurection has much importance. Jesus said he would rise from the dead. If he did not, then he was lying, which would make him untrustworthy.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm not sure why you say this is a problem. Certainly Paul didn't see it as a problem. I don't know of any "conservative Christian" sees it as a problem either.

But what evidence? You stated it:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once;


500 Witness is a pretty good case for a court.
Nope, the 500 Witness claim would not get anywhere near a court. That was hearsay when Paul heard it. Even if a supposed witness told Paul that would still be hearsay.
 
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