Is the Christian cross a symbol representing Scapegoating?

[icehorse]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think the emphasis is supposed to be on forgiving others, not on getting away with things. The idea of Jesus dying for your wrongs that would be morally bankrupt, so I'd agree with you there.

 

[Rival]

In my opinion it is a terrible message that relates human sacrifice.

 

[David T]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

Why do you believe that's what the text is? Seems overly southern baptist without jesus really.

 

[Kenny]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

Actually, scapegoat comes from a Jewish act that they did once a year.

I would look at it this way: in comparison to sinlessness it is man that is morally bankrupt, Thus the "scapegoat" is a good message because we find forgiveness, righteousness and wholeness in it.

As far as the symbol... it isn't a necessary symbol... I think before the cross symbol, a fish symbol was used--but again... not a necessary symbol.

 

[sun rise]

Crosses symbolize spirituality and healing. The four points of a cross represent self, nature, wisdom, and higher power or being. Crosses suggest transition, balance, faith, unity, temperance, hope, and life. They represent relationships and and a need for connection to something.

The Meaning Of The Cross Symbol

 

[wizanda]

why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

<>< A fish was the early symbol of the faith.

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt.

True

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message?

Because in both Paul and peter's writings, they tell us that the 'good news' (G2097/G2098) is jesus came to die for us.

In my opinion.

 

[Nakosis]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

Just my opinion but I think Paul used Jesus as a scapegoat. Since Paul was accepted by the church as an apostle, his theology became the basis for Christian theology.

I always thought the point was not to use Jesus as a scapegoat but to use him as an example. That we each not only forgive ourselves of our own sins but we forgive our fellow man of their sins.

Jesus showed everyone holds the power to forgive sin. Then simply stop sinning.

 

[Vee]

According to the Bible, Jesus volunteered to come to the earth as a human and give his life to replace the one Adam lost by disobeying God. He wasn't used as a scapegoat. He offered to do it.
Concerning how he died, there is no consensus about what the word stauros used in the New Testament really means. Some people believe it was two pieces of timber placed across one another, but others disagree. Anglican theologian E. W. Bullinger, in The Companion Bible was emphatic in his belief that stauros never meant two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, "but always of one piece alone ... There is nothing [of the word stauros] in the Greek of the N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber." Bullinger wrote that in the catacombs of Rome Christ was never represented there as "hanging on a cross" and that the cross was a pagan symbol of life (the ankh) in Egyptian churches that was borrowed by the Christians.

Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia
Christian cross - Wikipedia

Either way, Jesus never asked people to display a symbol of his death in any format.

 

[Sanzbir]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

I mean the "scape goat" itself is something that comes from scripture so I don't know why you'd think it is surprising such a thing would arise from a biblical culture.

"But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat."(Leviticus 16:10)

which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

In what other cultures?? The idea of a "scapegoat", at least in the literal animal sense, is endorsed in many cultures all around the world, like in many animistic faiths and traditions, pretty much anything with any sort of animal sacrifice.

The idea of a human scapegoat is present in any culture that believes in warlocks, any of the old cultures who practiced human sacrifice, or in more benevolent forms in cultures that have the concept of a "Sin Eater".

I get that people tend to be ethnocentric, and unable to see past their own homeland, but this kind of view is pretty much everywhere.

 

[BSM1]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

Just a side thought; if Jesus were executed today then would people be wearing little golden electric chairs or hypodermic needles on chains around their necks 2000 years from now?

 

[Sanzbir]

Just a side thought; if Jesus were executed today then would people be wearing little golden electric chairs or hypodermic needles on chains around their necks 2000 years from now?

Probably not.

I mean Jesus just happened to be martyred with a device that is easily to make into a symbol.

You don't see other faiths born of martyrs with less simple-shape deaths turning that execution into a symbol.

For example, with us in the Baha'i Faith, we don't wear tiny rifle pendants around our necks to remember how our Prophet the Bab was executed via firing squad. It's not really easy to turn a rifle into a symbol. Much easier to do so when the execution device is two crossed lines.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In what other cultures?? The idea of a "scapegoat", at least in the literal animal sense, is endorsed in many cultures all around the world, like in many animistic faiths and traditions, pretty much anything with any sort of animal sacrifice.

The idea of a human scapegoat is present in any culture that believes in warlocks, any of the old cultures who practiced human sacrifice, or in more benevolent forms in cultures that have the concept of a "Sin Eater".

I get that people tend to be ethnocentric, and unable to see past their own homeland, but this kind of view is pretty much everywhere.

I'm not aware of any other cultures believing that your sins can be transferred to another creature for your forgiveness. Most cultures didn't even recognize the idea of sin as Christians do. The Wiki page on sin-eaters mostly just talks about Christians in England from the 19th century and a lone Aztec goddess.

 

[metis]

...in The Companion Bible was emphatic in his belief that stauros never meant two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, "but always of one piece alone ...

The Romans used the stake for impaling, not crucifixion. The earliest depictions always involved two pieces, and we well know that the cross-member was attached to a central pillar because the post-molds in some cases are still present.

 

[Sanzbir]

I'm not aware of any other cultures believing that your sins can be transferred to another creature for your forgiveness.

Yeah. As I said. Ethnocentrism and a lack of knowledge of other cultures is rampant.

So in addition to the Jews the Syrians had a literal scape goat practice, as did ancient Greeks who would cast out a poor person as a pharmakos whenever something went wrong. Mesoamerican human sacrifice often had elements of scapegoating in response to natural disasters, Mesoamericans and Norse alike known to sacrifice their leadership in response to natural disaster or famine. Even in the modern era in many tribal societies "scapegoat" practices are rampant, with individuals or animals blamed for disasters befalling the whole community and who are exiled/killed/etc. in response to natural disaster.

Any culture that believed in, or still believes in witches (as is the case in many places) is basically practicing scapegoat practices. Where if something goes wrong in the community, it must be the result of someone evil hiding among the community, and that person is hunted down and put to death in the hope that the hardship befalling the community will pass.

The practice of the "scapegoat" was pretty much worldwide in older cultures, and still exists in modern tribal societies. The world outside your homeland is a big place.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah. As I said. Ethnocentrism and a lack of knowledge of other cultures is rampant.

Your arrogant, insulting attitude isn't helpful. I don't even feel like reading the rest of your post.

 

[Sanzbir]

Your arrogant, insulting attitude isn't helpful. I don't even feel like reading the rest of your post.

Well I'm not sure how you expected me to respond to when I list a couple examples of cultures with the practice and state that many people aren't aware of such cultures do to ethnocentrism and the reply I get is "Well I'm not aware of any culture that..."

I'm not sure of any other response that such a thing warrants other than reiterating that "Yep. As I said people are indeed unaware of other cultures." and then to continue listing examples.

I also don't get why you think what I said is insulting. All I stated is that you had a lack of knowledge of these cultures which is literally what you yourself said:

I'm not aware of any other cultures believing that your sins can be transferred to another creature for your forgiveness.

So if you can say that you aren't aware of any cultures with scapegoating practices, how is me restating that you aren't aware of the many cultures with scapegoating practices insulting??

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well I'm not sure how you expected me to respond to when I list a couple examples of cultures with the practice and state that many people aren't aware of such cultures do to ethnocentrism and the reply I get is "Well I'm not aware of any culture that..."

I'm not sure of any other response that such a thing warrants other than reiterating that "Yep. As I said people are indeed unaware of other cultures." and then to continue listing examples.

I also don't get why you think what I said is insulting. All I stated is that you had a lack of knowledge of these cultures which is literally what you yourself said:



So if you can say that you aren't aware of any cultures with scapegoating practices, how is me restating that you aren't aware of the many cultures with scapegoating practices insulting??

You accuse me of ethnocentrism and then end it with "the world outside your homeland is a big place", which implies that I'm a sheltered idiot. It's very passive aggressive and rude. But if you want to be one of those people who is rude and snobby without self-awareness of your behavior, that's your issue and I don't have the time nor the patience for that. Good day.

 

[BSM1]

You accuse me of ethnocentrism and then end it with "the world outside your homeland is a big place", which implies that I'm a sheltered idiot. It's very passive aggressive and rude. But if you want to be one of those people who is rude and snobby without self-awareness of your behavior, that's your issue and I don't have the time nor the patience for that. Good day.

So does this mean that dinner at@sanzbir's house Thursday is out of the question?

 

[Enoch07]

It strikes me that the idea that "Jesus died for our sins" is morally bankrupt. It seems to be a pretty clear example of scapegoating, which in other cultures is viewed in a very negative light.

Why do Christians think that making Jesus a scapegoat is a good message? And given that, why would the cross be seen as a good symbol of the faith?

I don't think you understand what scapegoating is.

Here, Scapegoating - Wikipedia

Christians don't blame Jesus for their sin.

It boggles my mind how some of the non-christians here come up with such whacky ideas.

LoLz