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Did the writers of Genesis have outside help?

Did the writers of Genesis have outside help?


  • Total voters
    7

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
The stories in Genesis are very interesting stories.
Do we know what caused the author to write them?
Do we know what civilization was like at the time?
Today, knowledge has expanded many multiples of what it was at that time. Our vocabulary has many times the number of words available than when Genesis was written.
The posts here show that people are actively thinking, using our collective knowledge to arrive at ideas about what the Genesis stories tell us.
It’s too easy to dismiss them as ancient ramblings when viewed through our present day brains, if we take them literally.
Concepts we knew in grade school were alien to the people of the earth at that time. A spherical planet revolving around an enormous ball of burning hydrogen and helium. (What is hydrogen and helium?) Billions of years old. In a solar system with many other planets. In a galaxy with billions of stars and billions of solar systems and billions of planets in a universe with billions of galaxies. And it’s all billions of years old. (What is a billion?). Even if God came face to face with the author and said all those words, the author would not understand them.

There are pearls of wisdom in the stories, but taking them too literally will fry your brain.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 40:22 says the Earth is round. The Hebrew word there is "chug", which can mean ball, or sphere.
Perhaps, but chug means 'circle' and Isaiah was perfectly well aware that there was a much better word - dur - that he could have used to mean 'ball' or 'sphere' - see Isaiah 22:18.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Isaiah 40:22 says the Earth is round. The Hebrew word there is "chug", which can mean ball, or sphere.

No, you are mistaken. That verse says that the Earth is flat, a circle so to speak. In fact an inscribed circle:

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

The word for "ball" in Hebrew is Dur:

Strong's Hebrew: 1754. דּוּר (dur) -- a circle, ball

Dur is used elsewhere in Isaiah for a ball so the author knew and understood both words.

I don't know what that first link will not post correctly. It was supposed to be a link to Strong's and showed that Chugh is "circle. Oh well here is a quote from that page:

chuwg
Pronunciation
khüg חוּג (H2328)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: circle (1x), circuit (1x), compass (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage H2328; a circle:—circle, circuit, compass.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't believe it is as innacurate as you think. Remember he was creating Heaven and Earth. The flat plane above is heaven, the flat plane is the sea of glass. That's why it seems like God created some things twice.


No that is the myth. We know how the Earth formed. No magic necessary.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Did the writers of Genesis have outside help?

Genesis was written in the 10th century BCE, before mankind discovered the size of the oceans or the continents and yet the accuracy of this timeline is amazing.

Scholars in the first half of the 20th century came to the conclusion that the Yahwist was produced in the monarchic period, specifically at the court of Solomon, 10th century BCE, and the Priestly work in the middle of the 5th century BCE (the author was even identified as Ezra), but more recent thinking is that the ...

Book of Genesis - Wikipedia

Genesis 1-2New International Version (NIV)

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Do you think the writers of Genesis had outside help formulating its content-?


DESIDERATA –

You Are A Child Of The Universe - original version

https://youtu.be/PNq_DTmVCWs
The Exodus happened around 1513 BCE or so. Thus Moses wrote the Pentateuch around that time, the 40 years in the desert of Arabia.
If Moses had writings handed down from Abraham or not is not known, but is possible since he has the line of ancestors up through time. If we look at the timeline, Abraham actually met Shem, Noah's son, who came through the flood.

Here is a graph of their birth, death and overlaps in time:
Chronology Adam-Jacob Graph-01.bmp

It is clear that God inspired and made sure that what is contained in Genesis is from him.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Exodus happened around 1513 BCE or so. Thus Moses wrote the Pentateuch around that time, the 40 years in the desert of Arabia.
If Moses had writings handed down from Abraham or not is not known, but is possible since he has the line of ancestors up through time. If we look at the timeline, Abraham actually met Shem, Noah's son, who came through the flood.

Here is a graph of their birth, death and overlaps in time:
Chronology Adam-Jacob Graph-01.bmp

It is clear that God inspired and made sure that what is contained in Genesis is from him.

Then why is there not one whit of evidence of the Exodus? Archaeologists concluded that it was a myth a long time ago. Roughly two million people wandering through the desert for 40 years would have left a mark. Why can't that mark be found?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Perhaps, but chug means 'circle' and Isaiah was perfectly well aware that there was a much better word - dur - that he could have used to mean 'ball' or 'sphere' - see Isaiah 22:18.
Interesting. Thanks for the reference.:D
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Wrong again. I can test my ideas to see if they are right. All you have is a book of myths. If you can't think of a way of testing and confirming the Bible then your book of myths is no more valid than the Quran or the Vedas.

Ok bigshot..form a planet.

The bible proves itself..what it says will happen happens. Even without archeological evidence you can see it. When it was just for Jews scripture predicted it would be preached to the whole world and it came to pass exactly as predicted.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So you failed all of your science classes.

One does not need to form a planet to test an idea.

Can you tell me why you believe your book of myths? I can tell you why I accept reality.

The bible proves itself..what it says will happen happens. Even without archeological evidence you can see it. When it was just for Jews scripture predicted it would be preached to the whole world and it came to pass exactly as predicted.

So tell me what test proves how a planet is formed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The bible proves itself..what it says will happen happens. Even without archeological evidence you can see it. When it was just for Jews scripture predicted it would be preached to the whole world and it came to pass exactly as predicted.

So tell me what test proves how a planet is formed.

Sorry but it doesn't. At best you are reinterpreting it to match reality. It is filled with failed prophecies, failed science, bad morals and more.

Once again, why do you believe in the Bible?

I can help you to understand the sciences. I can probably also identify the errors that you are making with the Bible.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sorry but it doesn't. At best you are reinterpreting it to match reality. It is filled with failed prophecies, failed science, bad morals and more.

Once again, why do you believe in the Bible?

I can help you to understand the sciences. I can probably also identify the errors that you are making with the Bible.

Yes it does. I can see your mind is closed so there is no point in talking to you.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yes it does. I can see your mind is closed so there is no point in talking to you.
Wrong again. It does not and you are the one with a closed mind. I offered to help you to see the errors of your ways. That is the sign of an open mind. You ran away because you can't support your claims. You should not make false claims against others. That is a breaking of the Ninth Commandment. I understand the Bible better than you do, I do not make the same errors that you do.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Wrong again. It does not and you are the one with a closed mind. I offered to help you to see the errors of your ways. That is the sign of an open mind. You ran away because you can't support your claims. You should not make false claims against others. That is a breaking of the Ninth Commandment. I understand the Bible better than you do, I do not make the same errors that you do.

No, that is a false claim against another (which is a violation of one of the ten commandments) You said I ran away because i can't support my claims. I can't support my claims to you a close minded person such as yourself who will not listen to them..so as I said and I believe most people can understand there is no point in talking to you.

But Nice to see you're trying to follow the commandments, Follow the gospel of Jesus when you do and take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from mine.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No, that is a false claim against another (which is a violation of one of the ten commandments) You said I ran away because i can't support my claims. I can't support my claims to you a close minded person such as yourself who will not listen to them..so as I said and I believe most people can understand there is no point in talking to you.

You did run away. I can quote your post where you said you were going to run away. That demonstrates that you cannot support your claims. By the way, even if you try I am willing to bet that you can't. And don't make false claims about me. That is not only breaking the Ninth Commandment it is against the rules of the forum. Once again, I can demonstrate that I understand the Bible better than you do. In general atheists understand the Bible better than Christians.

But Nice to see you're trying to follow the commandments, Follow the gospel of Jesus when you do and take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from mine.

I only follow the reasonable Commandments. The false vanity ones I merely laugh at. And I probably follow the gospel of Jesus better than you do too. You really should not abuse the Bible when you have only demonstrated that you are incredibly ignorant of the Bible and of the sciences.

Once again, I can explain to you how science works. Are you willing to learn? You are being a hypocrite by relying on science and denying it at the same time. You should not be talking about "logs" when you have an entire forest in your eye.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You did run away. I can quote your post where you said you were going to run away. That demonstrates that you cannot support your claims. By the way, even if you try I am willing to bet that you can't. And don't make false claims about me. That is not only breaking the Ninth Commandment it is against the rules of the forum. Once again, I can demonstrate that I understand the Bible better than you do. In general atheists understand the Bible better than Christians.



I only follow the reasonable Commandments. The false vanity ones I merely laugh at. And I probably follow the gospel of Jesus better than you do too. You really should not abuse the Bible when you have only demonstrated that you are incredibly ignorant of the Bible and of the sciences.

Once again, I can explain to you how science works. Are you willing to learn? You are being a hypocrite by relying on science and denying it at the same time. You should not be talking about "logs" when you have an entire forest in your eye.

After mankind makes a planet I will be ready to learn. Until then I will believe God did it according to the scriptures. Not that planet making is anything I need to know, If i did I do not have so much faith in man to tell me how to make a planet.


Which are the "reasonable" commandments?
 
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