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How are these Great Beings explained?

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But how does anyone know that they themselves aren't doing exactly that? In prophet based religions, don't all adherents claim they heed the words of their prophet? Also, don't many accuse everyone else of not following the words of the prophet? In many Christian sects, that's what they do. In Islam, the Sunnis and Shia each claim they're the ones listening, and the other guys aren't. Who is right?

The Great Beings and a small quantity of others are the right way.

The rest of us can but try. The Bible calls a person of deeds the fruit of the Faith they proclaim.

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi Carlita.

For me it’s similar. I first knew God through Jesus and then I developed a personal love and inner attachment to His Spirit and through His Life and example.

Although I was born and raised a Catholic my passion for Jesus came but from His Self and Life. And I always carry that around with me.

It’s the same with Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad and Zoroaster. My passion for Them comes from Their Life and Teachings.

One can still have a strong passionate belief for all the Divine Educators through Their Lives and Teachings.

The first disciples of Christ knew no sacraments. All they knew was the Words Jesus spoke to them so their belief was based directly upon Jesus Life and Teachings.

We can come to know and love and have strong passionate belief for all the Educators through Their Lives and Teachings independent of others.

Indeed, independent investigation of truth demands that our belief is based upon our own research not what others may think or say.

But sharing is important in the learning process to be able to see things from more than just our own perspective.

Think of all the grains of sand discovered or not in the universe and my knowledge is not yet an atom of one of those grains of sand.

You speak a lot of truth I believe as do others here.

We have huge differences. For example, (no direspect Vinayaka) but I know Nothing at all, whatsoever about Hinduism. I know nothing about Siva. Nothing about Krishna. Im still figuring out the difference between Brahma and Brahman. Ive read part of the Gita. Ive read the bible. Part of the Quran. And one percent of over a thousand of suttas The Buddha's Dhamma.

Id never equate myself to a Hindu nor Muslim because I respect them and their teachings. Id never equate myself to a JW because I agree with how they define jesus' divinity. Id never equate to anyone's religion I do not practice.

My passion for Eastern faiths do not go no farther than Buddhism. My passion for christianity no father than Catholicism.

I feel it takes a lot of maturity to distance yourself from amother persons religion no matter how much passion we have for it. I never knew that Pagans believe in Eureopean gods and most are polytheistic. I used to be Pagan but now I Know I was never one because I am an atheist. I have no theistic beliefs. It would be entirely disrespectful to call myself a Pagan. pagan, yes. Im not abrahamic. Pagan, no. Witch the same. Its a European word. My family is from the south. Id use hoodoo but very very carefully.

But most of these things are highly highly cultural. You have to practice it. Passion and practice are two different things.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We have huge differences. For example, (no direspect Vinayaka) but I know Nothing at all, whatsoever about Hinduism. I know nothing about Siva. Nothing about Krishna. Im still figuring out the difference between Brahma and Brahman.

That's wonderful ... I mean that you admit it, lol. It's refreshing, the honesty. But I also know nothing about Buddhism, other than that it's contemplative, and I've 'felt' it at a retreat center. I can tell you it 'feels' really calm and peaceful.

Just last week my daughter discovered another different retreat center on the plains of Alberta, that just opened a couple of years back, in an old school, I think. She applied for a 10 day silence retreat, but was too late I think. There is a huge monastery on Prince Edward Island too. The idea of being a monk really appeals to me, but then I know some Hindu monks quite well. Maybe next lifetime.

Dhamma Karuṇā

Great Enlightenment Buddhist Institute Society
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's wonderful ... I mean that you admit it, lol. It's refreshing, the honesty. But I also know nothing about Buddhism, other than that it's contemplative, and I've 'felt' it at a retreat center. I can tell you it 'feels' really calm and peaceful.

Thanks. :) It is, isnt it. I felt the same at the Hindu temple. There is a "silent peace" that I get in many house of worship based on mystic teachings. The theravada monastary three hours from me has retreats. Id like to go if I had the $200 to get there. I'll try in the spring since my work gave me hours on thanksgiving.

I was leaning towards tibetan buddhism. They have vipassana meditations. A lot of mystic techniques. It reminds me of what I read up on Hinduism. Probably the only Buddhist sect that is more theistic than others I practiced with. I also think Adrian is using one sect as an overview of all Buddhism. So, the interpretations of various faiths can get mixed match accidently.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Adrian. I dont understand. They are real to you but symbolic to someone else?

I am speaking of my beliefs that are real to me. I have no problem is someone sees them as symbolic or even untrue.

The Eucharist can be symbolic to you and real to someone else?

Communion in the Christian church was both real (literal) and symbolic to me.

Id never say what you believe is not real and symbolic.

it wouldn't offend me if you did.

I dont believe that anyhow. I dont have a right to believe anyone believes anything wrong because my belief says the opposite.

I believe that Krishna is a Manifestation of God, a belief sincerely held. Yet you are questioning my right to have this belief in Krishna, are you not?

If you believe in Krishna, than why is he a human (real human not incarnation) and not god?

Do you think Hindu just make up their beliefs just because they dont read their scripture? What do you think the scripture came from? People or did it write itself?

Hindus believe He was a man amongst men as I do. That's why I believe he was a human.

Hindus also believe He was a physical incarnation of God. This seems very similar to Christians belief about Christ. How come they believe it? Because with time mythology and history become interwoven and indistinguishable form each other. Scripture didn't stop the Christians from believing such a thing, and I doubt the Gita would either.

I have a few ideas about who wrote the gospels. I have no idea who wrote the Gita.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
So those names are the greatest? All this time I though the 108 names of Ganesha I recite are the greatest. Good to know. And you guys actually claim it isn't at all like Islam?

No Baha'i denies an Islamic influence. But it sounds as if we may have a thing or two in common with the Dharmic faiths as well. :D
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Education is incredibly important to Hindus, just not scripture. Secular education, it could be argued, is too important, even leading to an unbalanced life. You falsely extended my statement. Just where did you think all those Indian doctors and engineers came from?

Both secular and spiritual education are important to Baha'is.

I certainly have come across a great many educated Hindus, but we never talk religion.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I am speaking of my beliefs that are real to me. I have no problem is someone sees them as symbolic or even untrue.

What you are saying is what ia real to others is symbolic. Regardless if you respect my opinion, I wouldnt say your belief in god is symbolic. To me thats disappreciating your faith. I see you do thag with Hindu. Its rude.

Communion in the Christian church was both real (literal) and symbolic to me.

How is it symbolic if its literal?

If the Eucharist is real to you, it is no longer symbolic. How do you believenin god literally and symbolically at the same time?

it wouldn't offend me if you did.

I would never say that. Why do you?

I believe that Krishna is a Manifestation of God, a belief sincerely held. Yet you are questioning my right to have this belief in Krishna, are you not?
Your belief doesnt make sense. Christ, kinda since he is am incarnation. Muhammad kinda since bahai is kinda mixed in that regard. Buddhism not so much unless you believe there is only one authentic buddhism. Krishna not at all. Two needles i a hay stack.

Hindus believe He was a man amongst men as I do. That's why I believe he was a human.

Wait. You said you dont look to Hindus's belief but their scripture. Not all Hindu believe the same. So, I dont understand how you see him one way but those who know Krishna in person know him another.

Hindus also believe He was a physical incarnation of God. This seems very similar to Christians belief about Christ. How come they believe it? Because with time mythology and history become interwoven and indistinguishable form each other. Scripture didn't stop the Christians from believing such a thing, and I doubt the Gita would either.

A person is no longer human if they are an incarnation. No one on this thread but me and you said Krishna is an incarnation.

Hindu say Krishna IS god. Not separate. Not like christ. Again. Not abrahamic.

I have a few ideas about who wrote the gospels. I have no idea who wrote the

Hmm.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I think God had raised certain scientists parallel to the Revelations of the Bab, and Bahaullah.
Science is not evil by itself, in the same way Religion is not evil, and this is the reason, we see a rapid progress in science since about 19th century.
Ah! So the scientific progress of the 19th and 20th centuries is part of the Baha'i Dispensation - but that of Newton, Gallileo and Copernicus (for example) was of a degenerate age in dire need of a new "Revelation"? Interesting theory.

Similar to Religion, when it appears, certain men used it for their own personal leadership, and to rule among certain nations or tribes.
Good Lord! Did they? I wonder if you can think of any particular examples of this?
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Letter
To His aunt, when still so young in years, the Child Bahá'u'lláh wrote this remarkable and most literate letter:-

"He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy, and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, yet because this Illiterate One is clinging to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and write without being taught. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endowed with insight. Those who are outside have been, and still are, unaware of this mystery."

This was posted yesterday as evidence of Baha'u'llah's prodigious (but untaught) literacy at a young age. Does anyone know where to find the original source of this quote?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This was posted yesterday as evidence of Baha'u'llah's prodigious (but untaught) literacy at a young age. Does anyone know where to find the original source of this quote?

So far these references.

Letter to Aunt Age 5 (Bahá'u'lláh)
Kazem in Tarikh 2004-09-26 04:41 (Post 2902):Held in Private Sources: alternative translation to next item In Unfoldment of Divine Civilisation Site( Letter addressed by Baha'u'llah, aged 5, to his Aunt, written in extremely literate Persian: )
"He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, but because this illiterate One is clung to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and can write without schooling. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endued with insight. Others have not been and are not aware of this mystery."

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Gosh. I said that on an atheistic thread a month or so ago. It was an interesting OP (context needed).

@Carlita, If I go to your RF avatar and click on your name, just above the phrase 'riding the waves' I see a phrase come up that says:

The ignorant say god exists

Do you think that could be perceived as disrespectful to Theists?

That was an interesting thread, I must say so:
Let me shorten the ontological proof of Anselm of Canterbury #20

Context always helps.

The ignorant claims god does exist.
The knowledgeable claims god does not.
The fool gives proof of its existence.
The wise admits there are none.

:herb:

The one who does not know says god exist (who has faith)
The one who knows say god does not (who has pride)
The foolish gives proof of its evidence (who says he knows everything)
The wise admits there are none. (the wise admits there is nothing to show)

It's a silly conclusion of a atheist vs. theist argument.

Short poem and thought it was interesting but I ran out of line in my signiture and honestly pressed enter thinking it was return.

Edit. Oh.

Do you think that could be perceived as disrespectful to Theists?
  • Ignorant means someone who do not know; lacking knowledge. Many people say they have faith but not knowledge that god exists. So they are ignorant to god's existence. They believe by faith.
  • The one who believes god does not exist, some, say so because of pride of knowing more than theists. It's saying "we know everything about the universe" rather than a humble way of saying we know god does not exist based on our experiences as well. It's a pride statement.

  • The fool or person lacking judgement will give evidence for something based on faith. Which is contradicting the point of faith. If god showed up, would people want faith or would they shoo god away because their experience is more real this his actual presence.
  • The wise admits there are none. He admits he doesn't know anything.

th

I read Plato's Republic and a lot of philosophy books way back when. This, I found interesting.

So, back to my original point. God is real and literal to you. Why would things like the Eucharist be symbolic for others just because it's symbolic to you? Why discredit someone else's belief in god/christ as symbolism while you believe something that is real?

Almost got me on that misdirection.
 
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siti

Well-Known Member
So far these references.

Letter to Aunt Age 5 (Bahá'u'lláh)
Kazem in Tarikh 2004-09-26 04:41 (Post 2902):Held in Private Sources: alternative translation to next item In Unfoldment of Divine Civilisation Site( Letter addressed by Baha'u'llah, aged 5, to his Aunt, written in extremely literate Persian: )
"He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, but because this illiterate One is clung to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and can write without schooling. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endued with insight. Others have not been and are not aware of this mystery."

Regards Tony
These are (as far as I can tell) references to internet resources where the quotation may have been posted at some time - I still can't find any genuine citation of an original source for this quotation.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
These are (as far as I can tell) references to internet resources where the quotation may have been posted at some time - I still can't find any genuine citation of an original source for this quotation.

Maybe Sen will clear this up for us. I have seen this quoted over the years, always brought a smo7le to my face, but I actually never looked for a reference, so I too would like to know its source now.

Tarikh Arabic is a word for History?
Kazem is a Name?

I know there are still a lot of writings held in private hands yet to be sourced, this is saying private source? SO?

Regards Tony
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
This was posted yesterday as evidence of Baha'u'llah's prodigious (but untaught) literacy at a young age. Does anyone know where to find the original source of this quote?
In recent decades Bahais have tended to push their miracle list under the 'carpet', but this one has popped up!
I will add it to the file that holds some others.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So far these references.

Letter to Aunt Age 5 (Bahá'u'lláh)
Kazem in Tarikh 2004-09-26 04:41 (Post 2902):Held in Private Sources: alternative translation to next item In Unfoldment of Divine Civilisation Site( Letter addressed by Baha'u'llah, aged 5, to his Aunt, written in extremely literate Persian: )
"He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, but because this illiterate One is clung to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and can write without schooling. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endued with insight. Others have not been and are not aware of this mystery."

Regards Tony

There's a prob with all this.
His Aunt never watched as he wrote, obviously.
I tell you what, next time any visitor pops around to our place with a brat, I will sit same in from of my keypad and it can send a post to you, using my name and avatar, and then you will know that a truly holy person once touched my laptop!
I wonder if it will be worth a bit more? :D
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
For one thing, it was biased reporting. The Pharisses were made to look guilty and to be the ones rejecting him. But do Baha'is believe the healings really happened? Since some included bringing people back to life.

Another thing is that the gospels were written way later. So who knows what really happened during his lifetime. But the Jews that came later heard stories about a man who walked on water and rose from the dead. Why should those Jews have left Judaism to follow such beliefs?

Caiaphas, the Jewish chief priest and the Jewsih council were the ones who condemned Jesus to death (John 18). Jesus was an innocent man and did not deserve crucifixion.

Paul converted about 3 or 4 years after Jesus was crucified. Naturally he tried to preach to his fellow Jew but this didn't go so well so he turned his attention to the gentiles and had much more success.

Paul emphasised the resurrection and the gentiles were receptive to this story. Of course Paul never saw the resurrection (all the resurrection experiences were meant to have happened 40 days in the lead up to Pentecost) but instead had an experience of Christ on the road to Damascus where he was blinded and heard Christ say "Why are you persecuting Me?". Then Paul likened his non resurrection experience to the other so called resurrection experiences.
 
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