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Does it matter?

Daisies4me

Active Member
Hey there Daisies4me,
Lie in Scriptures? No lie in Scriptures my friend only in some translations of the Scriptures. Romans 5:2 should be translated as follows.

Rom 5:2 Through Whom also we have had the access to the faith into the grace. This (grace) in which we have stood.
Also we are boasting in (the) expectation of the glory of God.

Most translations have the words I highlighted in bold in the present active tense. This would be wrong. Those words are in the Perfect tense in the Greek text and that is how they should be translated or they are wrong. They are a false testimony to what GOD had intended; a lie.


The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in
English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been
completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be
repeated.
Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!")
is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense,
namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely,
once and for all time."
Certain antiquated verb forms in Greek, such as those related
to seeing (eidw) or knowing (oida) will use the perfect tense
in a manner equivalent to the normal past tense. These few
cases are exception to the normal rule and do not alter the
normal connotation of the perfect tense stated above.

(quote)

hi Scrooge

I hope this finds you well.

Very happy to know that my first impression was in error--and thankful that we are in agreement that there is no 'lie' in the Scriptures. :)

could you look at this translation, and give your thoughts on how this translation stands by comparison?

Romans 5:1 Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we also have obtained access by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now stand; and let us rejoice, based on hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but let us rejoice while in tribulations, since we know that tribulation produces endurance; 4 endurance, in turn, an approved condition; the approved condition, in turn, hope, 5 and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us.

IMHO, it flows quite well and conveys the complete thought quite nicely. What do you think?

thanks for your consideration . I look forward to your insight.

(quote)
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
(quote)

hi Scrooge

I hope this finds you well.

Very happy to know that my first impression was in error--and thankful that we are in agreement that there is no 'lie' in the Scriptures. :)

could you look at this translation, and give your thoughts on how this translation stands by comparison?

Romans 5:1 Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we also have obtained access by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now stand; and let us rejoice, based on hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but let us rejoice while in tribulations, since we know that tribulation produces endurance; 4 endurance, in turn, an approved condition; the approved condition, in turn, hope, 5 and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us.

IMHO, it flows quite well and conveys the complete thought quite nicely. What do you think?

thanks for your consideration . I look forward to your insight.

Nope, not even your "nice flowing" NWT is correct, according to Scrooge.


Rom 5:2 Through Whom also we have had the access to the faith into the grace. This (grace) in which we have stood.
Also we are boasting in (the) expectation of the glory of God.

Most translations have the words I highlighted in bold in the present active tense. This would be wrong. Those words are in the Perfect tense in the Greek text and that is how they should be translated or they are wrong. They are a false testimony to what GOD had intended; a lie.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
What will happen when Jesus comes “with power and great glory”? This will be a time for rewarding those who are faithful and for punishing those who are not. (Matt. 24:46, 47, 50, 51; 25:19, 28-30)

I know that witnesses believe, and teach, that the verses you reference for the time when the "faithful are rewarded" are referring to the 144,000 elite of the Jehovah's witnesses only, not for any and everyone. Only your elite are rewarded, the rank and file witnesses are just getting a place on the paradise earth to be subjects in the kingdom, no more, no rewards.

It's only the 144,000 who are under the New Covenant.
It's only the 144,000 who are children of God.

The rank and file witnesses are just like the foreigners in the old testament, they weren't part of the nation of God, but they were accepted by their association with the nation. The rank and file witness is only accepted by God because they associate with the 144,000.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
However, the Bible clearly shows that “the sign of the Son of man” will appear in heaven and that Jesus will come “on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 24:30) Both of these expressions imply invisibility.

Matthew 24:30 (ESV Strong's) Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The sign of the Son of man will APPEAR in heaven and all the tribes of the earth will SEE the Son of man coming, but they imply "invisibility"?
 

Daisies4me

Active Member
I know that witnesses believe, and teach, that the verses you reference for the time when the "faithful are rewarded" are referring to the 144,000 elite of the Jehovah's witnesses only, not for any and everyone. Only your elite are rewarded, the rank and file witnesses are just getting a place on the paradise earth to be subjects in the kingdom, no more, no rewards.

(quote)
hello djh
The parable Jesus gave in Matthew 24:45-51 also has a parallel illustration in Luke 12: 42-48. Interesting to note, is that dealing with a 'faithful and discreet slave' and an "evil slave", it shows the faithful slaves' Master appointed him over his domestics, or household servants, to provide for them their food. If approved at his master's coming, (evidently from some trip) the slave would be rewarded by being placed over the master's entire property.
IN the parallel illustration, Luke shows that the slave is called a steward, that is, a "house manager" or administrator, one placed over servants , though he himself is also a servant. Such a position was often filled in ancient times by a faithful slave. compare the scriptures at Genesis 24:2, and also in the case of Joseph at Genesis 39:1-6.
The administrator in Jesus' illustration is first assigned only to the supervision and timely dispensation of the food supplies to the master's body of attendants, or servants. Later, because of his faithful and discreet handling of this ministry, his assignment is widened out to embrace supervision of all the master's holdings.
Those forming the Christian Congregation are referred to by the Apostle Paul as 'members of the household of God'. see Ephesians 2:19. Paul also shows that 'faithful stewardship' among such household members involved in the dispensing of spiritual truths on which those becoming believers would "feed". look at 1 corinthians 3:2-5, and 4:1-2. This was the prime responsibility of those appointed as shepherds of the flock. please read 1 Peter 5:1-3.
As for those who are being shepherded by the ones appointed by God to provide spiritual food, the hope is great. IN fact, please read Psalms 37:29, and Revelation 21:2-4 to see how those of the 'flock' are to be provided for....

I hope this will facilitate a better understanding of the Bible teaching.
(quote)

--------------------

It's only the 144,000 who are under the New Covenant.
It's only the 144,000 who are children of God.

The rank and file witnesses are just like the foreigners in the old testament, they weren't part of the nation of God, but they were accepted by their association with the nation. The rank and file witness is only accepted by God because they associate with the 144,000.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
hello djh
The parable Jesus gave in Matthew 24:45-50 also has a parallel illustration in Luke 12: 42-48. Interesting to note, is that dealing with a 'faithful and discreet slave' and an "evil slave", it shows the faithful slaves' Master appointed him over his domestics, or household servants, to provide for them their food. If approved at his master's coming, (evidently from some trip) the slave would be rewarded by being placed over the master's entire property.
IN the parallel illustration, Luke shows that the slave is called a steward, that is, a "house manager" or administrator, one placed over servants , though he himself is also a servant. Such a position was often filled in ancient times by a faithful slave. compare the scriptures at Genesis 24:2, and also in the case of Joseph at Genesis 39:1-6.
The administrator in Jesus' illustration is first assigned only to the supervision and timely dispensation of the food supplies to the master's body of attendants, or servants. Later, because of his faithful and discreet handling of this ministry, his assignment is widened out to embrace supervision of all the master's holdings.
Those forming the Christian Congregation are referred to by the Apostle Paul as 'members of the household of God'. see Ephesians 2:19. Paul also shows that 'faithful stewardship' among such household members involved in the dispensing of spiritual truths on which those becoming believers would "feed". look at 1 corinthians 3:2-5, and 4:1-2. This was the prime responsibility of those appointed as shepherds of the flock. please read 1 Peter 5:1-3.
As for those who are being shepherded by the ones appointed by God to provide spiritual food, the hope is great. IN fact, please read Psalms 37:29, and Revelation 21:2-4 to see how those of the 'flock' are to be provided for....

I hope this will facilitate a better understanding of the Bible teaching.

All you are referring to is the 7 men that claim to be that slave, what about the rest of the 144,000 that are anointed children, brothers of Jesus and have the heavenly hope?
 

Daisies4me

Active Member
Thank you , I appreciate that. But why so many recent ones that just seem to be saying the same thing? I understand that the King James version can be a little difficult to read, and the need for a newer translation or two to fit the times since then, But there are just so many contemporary versions that basically say the same thing. It just seems to add to confusion. Maybe I'm missing something?
(quote)

Hi Missmay

I hope this finds you well and in peace.
As with so many things, IMHO, follow the MONEY and desire for POWER over people....I remember it being said over a half century ago, that 'religion is a snare and a racket', and I don't think that has changed much since then... lol

any form of 'religion' (of which there are many) that would present itself as having God's favor , and yet not adhering to the Scriptures (like James 1:27, for example) would 'from the standpoint of our God' definitely be 'a snare and a racket', was the opinion of the statement, imho.

peace
(quote)
 

Daisies4me

Active Member
All you are referring to is the 7 men that claim to be that slave, what about the rest of the 144,000 that are anointed children, brothers of Jesus and have the heavenly hope?

(quote)
Hi
Apparently you have misunderstood the explanation. Please read it again, and look up the cited scriptures, and see how they answer your questions.
When in doubt, always go to the Holy Writings from God, is my best advice on the matter.

take care

(quote)
 
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