How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Its entirely different from Christianity. But what do I know? I grew up with Christianity and was Christian. I then converted to the Baha'i Faith and have been a Baha'i for 27 years.

I'm talking in degrees here. Both accept Christ, no? Both lean on scripture a ton. Both have prophets. Both proselytize. Both see themselves as special.

Whereas I don't have any of the above. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No it doesn't. The Baha'i belief doesn't suggest anything other than the Baha'i belief. It's nothing new. there were universalist sects before Baha'i, and Oneness existed as a concept. It's all been considered.

It has never before been acheived on a universal scale. All the Messages of the Great Beings contained this potential, so yes we agree as a concept it has been available.

This is the day when it is possible.

Today is not the day to consider, but the day to act upon it.

To be Universal, is to see our God in it all.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Whereas I don't have any of the above. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

How does this release us from Self and our tendency to selfishness?

Why not find our common ground?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

It has never before been acheived on a universal scale.

It still hasn't and it certainly doesn't need to be. All we need are two things: ahimsa, and mutual respect. The planet will be fine. Gloom and doom and naive optimism about your way becoming the way doesn't hurt or help.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why not find our common ground?

It's not necessary. Simple as that. There are better things to do, like volunteering at a charity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see no such inconsistencies, but I can see why you think that.



In a sense it hasn't. Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God whose Divine mission was disclosed to Him while in prison in 1852. He passed away 1892 but left a will authorising Abdu'l-Baha to be the leader of the Baha'i Faith, authorised interpreter and expounder of His teachings, and the perfect exemplar of Baha'i teachings. Abdu'l-Baha passed away in 1921 and left a will authorising twin successors. First their was the appointment of his eldest grandson, Shoghi Effendi to be the leader of the Baha'i faith and authorised interpreter. Shoghi Effendi passed away in 1957. Second, Abdu'l-Baha also appointed the Universal House of Justice that would be the head of the Baha'i Faith and established in 1963. We see that this international elected body can be the recipient of Divine guidance, but not to provide a revelation like Baha'u'llah as they are under the shadow of is revelation. Our international governing body is authorised to resolve difficult matters that pertain to the Baha'i writings, and can enact laws and repeal those same laws depending on the exigencies of the time. They provide ongoing guidance to the international Baha'i community that is Divinely inspired.

The first is odd. I see inconsistances in my faith and it doesnt invalidate the facts they teach. What is wrong with inconsistencies?

The second sounds as though the governing body acts as the pope in authority has to scriptures in which The Church put together before the protestants took books they felt wasnt divine.

Interesting

 

[Vinayaka]

What is wrong with inconsistencies?

Admitting it would put the doctrine of infallibilty into question, and that's as solid as stone. (My guess)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It still hasn't and it certainly doesn't need to be. All we need are two things: ahimsa, and mutual respect. The planet will be fine. Gloom and doom and naive optimism about your way becoming the way doesn't hurt or help.

If it is in one human mind, it is in the Universal Mind already.

Now many millions also practice this in Mind and in body, it gains strength each day and this is the Positive you see in the world.

Yes the World will be fine, but it is not yet that way and will not be until the mind of men starts to focus collectivly on our Oneness, that a greater clarity will be found.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

If it is in one human mind, it is in the Universal Mind already.

Now many millions also practice this in Mind and in body, it gains strength each day and this is the Positive you see in the world.

Yes the World will be fine, but it is not yet that way and will not be until the mind of men starts to focus collectivly on our Oneness, that a greater clarity will be found.

Sure, this is the simplified version. It needs mutual respect, and doesn't need prophets or divisive attitudes of having to do it 'my way'.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's not necessary. Simple as that. There are better things to do, like volunteering at a charity.

Great, common ground is found in that statement. We both agree that is better practice our common virtues than to argue about what is not common ground.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

And what does historicity prove? Does it prove the existence of God?

I don't know, but everything that is, being a part of all, and all being of God, proves the existence of a Deity, or so I believe..... not that such Deity notices us.

Does it prove that Jesus is/was the son of God (through ..)?

No. Yeshua referred to self as the son of man, but since the Israelites believed that they were the children of God, then any Israelite man could call himself son-of-God. Even Barabba(s) means son of the father, so there was a Yeshua Son of man, and a Yeshua Son of the Father that week in Jerusalem. Interesting...............?

Does it prove that this God sent message through Moses or Mohammad, or manfiested as Bahaullah. Does it prove that Joseph Smith was a prophet or that Mirza Ghul;am Ahmad was the Mahdi (another returning personage).

No...... just that they were amazing people...........

 

[Vinayaka]

Great, common ground is found in that statement. We both agree that is better practice our common virtues than to argue about what is not common ground.

You seem to have an insatiable desire to find common ground. Of course there is common ground, I've never denied it. What is problematic is either ignoring differences entirely, or inventing stuff that doesn't exist just to find common ground.

Charity, unless perceived the same way, isn't common either. Some folks give with no thought of reward, whereas others always have conditions attached to all giving. A simple version of this is in monetary donations. The first scenario is anonymous, whilst the second insists it be acknowledged by name. But we've had this discussion before.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't know, but everything that is, being a part of all, and all being of God, proves the existence of a Deity, or so I believe..... not that such Deity notices us.

Aup and I have agreed to disagree on this one. Several times in fact. We both believe in Brahman, I call it God, he doesn't.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You seem to have an insatiable desire to find common ground. Of course there is common ground, I've never denied it. What is problematic is either ignoring differences entirely, or inventing stuff that doesn't exist just to find common ground.

Charity, unless perceived the same way, isn't common either. Some folks give with no thought of reward, whereas others always have conditions attached to all giving. A simple version of this is in monetary donations. The first scenario is anonymous, whilst the second insists it be acknowledged by name. But we've had this discussion before.

Virtue is pure, we add our intent, or we practice in its pure form, which has no self.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Virtue is pure, we add our intent, or we practice in its pure form, which has no self.

What do you mean by 'virtue'?

 

[oldbadger]

Aup and I have agreed to disagree on this one. Several times in fact. We both believe in Brahman, I call it God, he doesn't.

Interesting!
Not many Deists hold exactly the same ideas, opinions and beliefs.
I know of atheistic Deists, which I can understand, but the theistic Deists just contradict themselves by such terms.

Of course, atheists who believe in no deity at all, and atheists who believe in a distracted deity could argue away with reach other indefinitely.

 

[oldbadger]

What do you mean by 'virtue'?

Maybe it's something 'spiritual'?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What do you mean by 'virtue'?

In that remark, it would be mainly pointing to the source of the Attributes of God.

My life can only reflect the source in word that is supported 100% by deed.

Thus an example is Generosity is a Virtue, it is a source that I can talk about in its many facets, but I am not Generosity until I live all those facets.

To be Generosity, does not need words, words only help those trying to be the embodiment of Generosity.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Interesting!
Not many Deists hold exactly the same ideas, opinions and beliefs.
I know of atheistic Deists, which I can understand, but the theistic Deists just contradict themselves by such terms.

Of course, atheists who believe in no deity at all, and atheists who believe in a distracted deity could argue away with reach other indefinitely.

I didn't really understand Deism when I read about it. Sounds like God is there, but not active?

 

[Vinayaka]

In that remark, it would be mainly pointing to the source of the Attributes of God.

My life can only reflect the source in word that is supported 100% by deed.

Thus an example is Generosity is a Virtue, it is a source that I can talk about in its many facets, but I am not Generosity until I live all those facets.

To be Generosity, does not need words, words only help those trying to be the embodiment of Generosity.

Very confusing, as is common in this thread.

So we see virtues differently, as I sort of suspected. To me, virtues are independent of God totally. I don't see belief in God as a virtue at all. It's just a belief.