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Let’s talk about the Bible

kjw47

Well-Known Member
You can't possibly believe your teachers are correct now if you believed they were actually correct before they made the change. You would insist on them sticking to their original story.

When a person gives a witness and that witness keeps changing his story, the witness is considered unreliable, not more reliable.

So if you're a lawyer, and your witness testifies of himself saying "I was out of town at the time of murder" on Monday, claims "I was playing billiards down the street" on Tuesday, and then claims "I was home with the wife" on Wednesday, explaining to the jury that your witness is "100% correct" is only going to earn you a look of incredibility by the jury.

But this goes beyond anything we would ever see at trial. Your teachers claims to be the Almighty's witness here on earth, and as such it should be correct and true the first time, every time. It should be infinitely more reliable than our imaginary friend in at court. I see these constant changing stories as little more than an attempt to bring reproach upon the Divine Name.

As a matter of fact, when the Governing Board changes their story again I believe you will accept it as correct, which just tells everyone you didn't really believe what they had told you before.

In any event, if I'm ever facing scrutiny by our justice system, and I've had to change my story I'm going to ask if they could please stack the jury with Jehovah Witnesses. They'll believe me when I change my story one last time before I hit the witness stand:

"Members of the jury, the light gets brighter..."I was asleep at the time of murder"!



God set it up for truths to be revealed--At the proper time= when God willed--not before--not one on earth knew the hidden truths until God revealed them at the proper time(Dan 12:4) Matt 24:45)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
God set it up for truths to be revealed--At the proper time= when God willed--not before--not one on earth knew the hidden truths until God revealed them at the proper time(Dan 12:4) Matt 24:45)

But do the JWs really unlock the hidden truths? Perhaps one of the most disturbing aspects of the JWs and some other Christian groups is equating the United Nations with the beast. Anyone who is remotely acquainted with history appreciates the necessity of such a body and the need for good international governance in the aftermath of two world wars.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Different "manifestations", hypothetically at least, can do that [even though I personally don't believe in them]. The Catholic view of the Trinity at least does recognize the differences but believe that they're an integral part of the One. Hinduism teaches much the same with their belief in the many manifestations of Brahman.

See above.

Three separate - in the same place - at the same time - means three individuals, - no ONE/trinity. :)

*
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The book of Daniel was sealed until the last days?

Daniel Chapter 1

Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the vessels of the house of God. And he brought them to the land of Shinar, to the house of his god, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his god. 3Then the king commanded Ashpenaz, his chief eunuch, to bring some of the people of Israel, both of the royal family and of the nobility, 4youths without blemish, of good appearance and skillful in all wisdom, endowed with knowledge, understanding learning, and competent to stand in the king's palace, and to teach them the literature and language of the Chaldeans.
Is it really your assertion that no one understood the above "sealed" passage until now?

Or are you claiming Daniel didn't follow God's instructions, sealing part of the book while revealing most of it?

Daniel 12:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


The book of Daniel being open in the book of Revelation.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
But do the JWs really unlock the hidden truths? Perhaps one of the most disturbing aspects of the JWs and some other Christian groups is equating the United Nations with the beast. Anyone who is remotely acquainted with history appreciates the necessity of such a body and the need for good international governance in the aftermath of two world wars.


God allows the govts so their wont be total anarchy, but not one does the will of God.
The image of the beast = peace and security.
Satan doesn't get one deceived by going --here I am follow me--Know he and his teachers transforms into an angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15)-- using love, sharing, whatever it takes to mislead. He beat 99% living today, centuries ago.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What are you expecting for the world to be fooled into worshipping the image of the beast? It has to look good to the mortal heart, right? Like this-2Corinthians 11:12-15)
No, I do not agree that it has to look good and by the way, the governing body members look good, it has to look right.

Good cannot be faked. Righteousness is being faked all the time.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
No, I do not agree that it has to look good and by the way, the governing body members look good, it has to look right.

Good cannot be faked. Righteousness is being faked all the time.


Then you are saying that mortals are gonna serve the image of the beast even though they know it is satan and they will be standing in opposition to God---Think again. It would have to look good to the mortal heart to fool them into worshipping the image of the beast--- Any sound mature reasoning comes up with that reality.
Satan and his teachers transform into angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15) Yes they use good, love, sharing --anything to mislead.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Then you are saying that mortals are gonna serve the image of the beast even though they know it is satan and they will be standing in opposition to God---Think again. It would have to look good to the mortal heart to fool them into worshipping the image of the beast--- Any sound mature reasoning comes up with that reality.
Satan and his teachers transform into angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15) Yes they use good, love, sharing --anything to mislead.
What! Good? You do not know Jehovah. And if it is by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses that you learned that they do not know Jehovah either.

ALL good things come from Jehovah. There is not one good, but God alone.
YOU CAN NOT FAKE GOOD!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 You say that the antichrist will fake good. But goodness is Jehovah's Domain.
How can anybody fake it? Good cannot be faked! Look for good and you will find Jesus.
Jesus is real.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Good:

to be desired or approved of.
.
having the [real] qualities required for a [real] particular role

that which is morally right; righteousness.

benefit or advantage to someone or something

well

Good is about IS. Righteousness is about want to be.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
@kjw47 You say that the antichrist will fake good. But goodness is Jehovah's Domain.
How can anybody fake it? Good cannot be faked! Look for good and you will find Jesus.
Jesus is real.


I don't see your explanation of why so many will worship the image of the beast? Since you say I am wrong. I showed you the bible says satan and his teachers transform into an angel of light-2Cor 11:12-15
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't see your explanation of why so many will worship the image of the beast? Since you say I am wrong. I showed you the bible says satan and his teachers transform into an angel of light-2Cor 11:12-15
Yes, light stands for knowing and NOT goodness.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is the difference between: I can see it! And I know what is right!

Goodness knows what is right.
Seeing thinks it knows what is the right way to get to the right.

Which, according to you, is better?

Knowing or knowing the way?

Knowing is best!
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Yes, light stands for knowing and NOT goodness.


A prime example of satan making a false god look good to mortal hearts---Valentines day--The world Jesus taught to be no part of, added a true life false god=Cupid to this holiday. A false god worshipped by humans for centuries. A cartoon drawing= a graven image. Yet most parent' hand this down to their children. God didn't forget who cupid is-- it is satan posing as all false gods. The world lives in its darkness because they must fit in.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
Interesting discussion really. Three theologies, the born again Christians, the JWs, the Baha'is, all completely biblically based, all of us convinced that we have the better worldview.

That’s good to know. I’ll remember it. However I do not see the JW's or the Baha'is as "completely biblically based". The JW's are certainly Watchtower based, while the Bahai's have sprinklings from various religions.

I think its important to reiterate that I too see scripture as authoritative and believe in the bible in its entirety, not just a few verses that suit my theology.

If you believe in the bible as authoritative I'n sure you accept no other gospel except the one preached by Jesus and his apostles:

No Other Gospel

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

These passages alone eliminates any subsequent gospel message, like those of Mohammed or the Bab.


You have to admit that there are a lot of Christians who hold such an interpretation of John 14:6, just as there were many Christians that used the bible to support anti-semetic views. I hope you don't do either.

Individual Christians hold a variety of personal views just like any other religion, and Prejudice is a human trait that can manifest anywhere…in our homes, schools, communities, governments and churches. I’m not aware of any major Christian religion that practices or promotes anti-Semitic views

So what other verses would you like to quote at me to scripturally prove you are right and I am wrong?

Prove? I generally shy away from terms such as “prove”. I think it much better to say evidence. The greater or weightier the evidence, the more likely a particular assertion is correct.


So why is your theology better than the JWs and the Baha'is?

I believe “better” theology comes through sound hermeneutics and critical exegesis rather than simply proof texting with a concordance. “Proof-texting” is a great way to draw attention or show that a particular bible verse exists. Beyond that it’s not much more than an exercise in polysemy.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
There is only one God. You have added two to make three.

Confusing me with a Tritheist is like me confusing you with a Mormon.

I'm talking about the Return of Christ and the signs that herald the end of one age and the beginning of another. Can you discern those signs?

We are still in the church age.Once this ends scriptural attention focuses on the Jews, but if you see the 3rd temple being built, all bets are off! :)
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
You can't possibly believe your teachers are correct now if you believed they were actually correct before they made the change. You would insist on them sticking to their original story.

When a person gives a witness and that witness keeps changing his story, the witness is considered unreliable, not more reliable.

God set it up for truths to be revealed--At the proper time= when God willed--not before--not one on earth knew the hidden truths until God revealed them at the proper time(Dan 12:4) Matt 24:45)

Then it is painfully obvious that now is not "the proper time" because they are still changing truths. Once they stop changing truths, we'll know it's the proper time for that truth to be revealed.

Is this correct, or does God reveal improper truths at improper times?
 
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