The Need For Christian Symbolism on Government Property

[Revoltingest]

Oh really, then why are people wanting them to come down.
If your right, that no feels threatened by Religious symbolism.
Then why bother with them.

Why want these religious symbols & mottos retained?
I assume you're not threatened by their lack.

 

[Faithofchristian]

My true motive is adherence to an originalist interpretation of the Constitution.
Look at the Bill Of Rights....all those things...I actively support all those things.
If government can violate one of them, then then can violate any of them.

Yeah, Your Right about that.
That's exactly what the democrates did for 8 years by Obama. Violated the Constitution in every way they could.
To try and bring about a Dictatorship Government.

 

[leibowde84]

Oh really, then why are people wanting them to come down.
If your right, that no feels threatened by Religious symbolism.
Then why bother with them.

Because they violate the constitution according to the SCOTUS. They are endorsing Christianity, which violates the establishment clause.

 

[leibowde84]

Yeah, Your Right about that.
That's exactly what the democrates did for 8 years by Obama. Violated the Constitution in every way they could.
To try and bring about a Dictatorship Government.

What are you basing this claim on specifically?

 

[ChristineM]

Oh really, then why are people wanting them to come down.
If your right, that no feels threatened by Religious symbolism.
Then why bother with them.

You really do not not comprehend do you.

One, i am not peaking for others i am speaking for myself.

Two, read my post again and this time try to understand the words, they really are quite simple.

I do find it interestingly that several people people have given their personal opinion and you repeatedly attempt to override that opinion with your dogma.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"God" is a proper name for the Xian god.
"Creator" is generic, including Allah, God, Lakshmi, Zeus, etc, etc.

Would you be OK with replacing "God" with "Allah"?

In all fairness, we should have sixty or seventy years of We Trust In No Gods, or at the least, They Trust In Gods, Not Us.

 

[ChristineM]

Actually the pilgrims fled Europe to get away from the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church of 1400 years. To worship God in the way they chose.

Then in 1798 Emperor Napoleon sent his General into the Vatican to arrest the Pope to bring an end to the 1400 years of persecution under Roman Catholic Church.

Thats the story the pilgrims told. You will note that england was not RC then and hadn't been for over 200 years, perhaps a history lesson would help you sort fact from fiction.

Note Napoleon was French, what has this to do with England?

 

[Faithofchristian]

What are you basing this claim on specifically?

Take a look at all the violence was being done after the election's not one time did obama or Hillary or the DNC Condemn those actions. Which were against the Constitution to protest Peacefully.

How's about letting Illegal immigrants come here, which was against the Constitution, They were to vetted before entering here.
But the democrates went right over the Constitution just to get their votes.

You hear about all this collusion over Russia, but nothing said, how democrate Ted Kennedy went to Russia to try and get them involved in our elections back in 1983.
And what about bill clinton himself, went to Russia to Dodge the draft back 70's

What about just last year while Obama was still president AG John Kerry went to Kenya Africa got involved in their elections.

What about Obama getting involved in Israel elections.

Which goes directly against our laws. That we are not to get involved in other countries elections.
But Obama did anyway.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Thats the story the pilgrims told. You will note that england was not RC then and hadn't been for over 200 years, perhaps a history lesson would help you sort fact from fiction.

Note Napoleon was French, what has this to do with England?

If you study out about history, The Roman Catholic Church controlled alot of the European countries and including England.

 

[ChristineM]

If you study out about history, The Roman Catholic Church controlled alot of the European countries and including England.

Bull. Most of Europe yes, but not England which split from the Catholic church in 1534

 

[Skwim]

It's not a question whether to allow them or not.
The question is, Why do people feel threatened by them.

Hey, if you want to ask another question make your own thread. The question in this one is

Why do the religious, the vast majority being Christians, need these symbols of their faith on secular pieces of property?

When I see them, I'm don't feel quilty about anything.

Of course not, because you have no concept of Separation of Church and State.

You literally did exactly what I asked you not to do, and failed to answer my question.

In my best Gomer Pyle voice: "Surprise!" "Surprise!" "Surprise!"

Those I agree with, since the Tanach is a book of law. That is, they are legitimate and not necessarily religious so much as cultural. Do we not have other historical mythological figures from other founding cultures such as Greece? Is not the Washington Monument a giant Egyptian phallus? I think having a picture of Moses is appropriate since he is influential in our laws.

If that's the context he appears in, with other law-givers, then I have no problem.

That's not in the Constitution. It's in the Declaration of Independence.

Hey, give him credit for at least quoting an American document.

.

You are talking about the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, not the Constitution.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it.

.​

 

[Faithofchristian]

Hey, if you want to ask another question make your own thread. The question in this one is

Why do the religious, the vast majority being Christians, need these symbols of their faith on secular pieces of property?


Of course not, because you have no conception of Separation of Church and State.



In my best Gomer Pyle voice: "Surprise!" "Surprise!" "Surprise!"



If that's the context he appears in, with other law-givers, then I have no problem.



Hey, give him credit for at least quoting an American document.

.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it.

.​

Show as to when in the Constitution where it is stated Separation of Church and State.

 

[Skwim]

Show as to when in the Constitution where it is stated Separation of Church and State.

Not that it will make any difference to you, and I really don't care that it doesn't, but for any on-lookers who may be wondering, here's an FYI from Wikipedia.

.

"Separation of church and state" is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The phrase "separation between church & state" is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."​

Jefferson was echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams who had written in 1644,

"[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world."

.​

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't think that matters. Its still fine to put pictures of influential figures on the walls of the court buildings. They are just carvings. Moses, Judge Blackstone, Abraham Lincoln...no difference.

I guess Homer Simpson is in line for the next influential figure. "0)

 

[ChristineM]

If you study out about history, The Roman Catholic Church controlled alot of the European countries and including England.

You may find this informative

 

[BSM1]

To answer this question, I think it helps to ask a parallel one: why might a fan of Star Wars decorate their spaces with Star Wars accouterments?

People like to decorate and infuse places with symbols and representations of things that are special and valued to them. We like to be surrounded by things we love and by things that give us comfort or make us smile. It's also a way of paying a nod of respect to those special things in our lives, and a way of putting it on display for others to enjoy too.

But...but...suppose you were a Star Trek convert? Wouldn't you feel a little left out?

 

[Skwim]

You may find this informative

Unfortunately, the video is blocked in the USA.

.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Not that it will make any difference to you, and I really don't care that it doesn't, but for any on-lookers who may be wondering, here's an FYI from Wikipedia.

.

"Separation of church and state" is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The phrase "separation between church & state" is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."​

Jefferson was echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams who had written in 1644,

"[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world."

.​

The 1st Admendment to the Constitution doesn't say anything about what you posted

 

[Quintessence]

But...but...suppose you were a Star Trek convert? Wouldn't you feel a little left out?

Maybe, but I'd get over it. Feeling left out is kinda the story of my life anyway... haha.
(until I realized I did not desire fame nor popularity and preferred to be the technician in the shadows who moves about unnoticed - maybe that's why I gravitated towards something obscure like Druidry too)

 

[ChristineM]

Unfortunately, the video is blocked in the USA.

.

Such a shame QI was a very informative prog. That segment was Stephen Fry (the host) and panel discussing puritans. Including that they left England not because they were being persecuted but because they were not free to persecute as a means of forcing their beliefs on others

The objection to Puritans is not that they try to make us think as they do, but that they try to make us do as they think.
H.L. MENCKEN (1880-1956)