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Was Adam a caveman? Was Eve a cavewoman?

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?

Here: Genesis 1:26-31

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This is where God made all other humans (the ones that resided outside of Eden. He did not make Adam and Eve until Genesis 2 here:

Genesis 2 3-9

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Adam and Eve were made after the humans referred to in Gen 1. My opinion is that the humans in Gen 1 are the "cave men" you speak of. Adam and Eve were not the first 2 humans to spring forth all of humanity as some would have you believe. They were special and had a specific task, but it was not to start the human race. As the human race had already been established XX,XXX of years before Adam and Eve were even created.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Here: Genesis 1:26-31

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This is where God made all other humans (the ones that resided outside of Eden. He did not make Adam and Eve until Genesis 2 here:

Genesis 2 3-9

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Adam and Eve were made after the humans referred to in Gen 1. My opinion is that the humans in Gen 1 are the "cave men" you speak of. Adam and Eve were not the first 2 humans to spring forth all of humanity as some would have you believe. They were special and had a specific task, but it was not to start the human race. As the human race had already been established XX,XXX of years before Adam and Eve were even created.

This is what I have said also. The people outside the Garden would have given Cain plenty of wife material the choose from.
 
Genesis 2:15 states that they were created with knowledge of agriculture and possibly breadmaking. Their children Cain and Abel had domesticated livestock and thus, Adam and Eve were not hunter-gatherer cavemen.

And this would make sense because Moses didn't know about cro-magnon or neanderthal and so began the story in the Neolithic which is where agriculture, standardised language and above all - systematic writings begin.

To go back further in time before the recordation of knowledge requires the sciences of archaeology and anthropology which did not exist when Moses wrote Genesis.
 
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whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?

If they were they were not primitives. People in some Australian suburbs live in caves even today and they look rather nice
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?

Simple answer is no.

By the way our ancestors were not cavemen. Caves were utilized at various times, but not a primarily place of residence.
 
By the way our ancestors were not cavemen. Caves were utilized at various times, but not a primarily place of residence.

Actually it depends on how far back in time you go. Blombos Cave in South Africa was extensively used as a primary shelter for more than 10,000 years. Whether each group of individuals stayed only temporarily or for a significant number of years is unknown but its safe to say that caves were used as important waystations to clean and cook their meals, craft tools and weapons and even to make beaded jewelry.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Actually it depends on how far back in time you go. Blombos Cave in South Africa was extensively used as a primary shelter for more than 10,000 years. Whether each group of individuals stayed only temporarily or for a significant number of years is unknown but its safe to say that caves were used as important waystations to clean and cook their meals, craft tools and weapons and even to make beaded jewelry.

I believe I acknowledged this. Exceptions do not contradict the rule that humans were primarily not cave dwellers. Humans and our ancestors are indeed opportunistic to utilize caves when available, but caves are just not numerous enough around the world that primitive human cultures and our ancestors spread for caves to be the primary residence. In fact most ancient culture were probably migratory following seasonal food sources.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?

Adam and Eve were made after the humans referred to in Gen 1. My opinion is that the humans in Gen 1 are the "cave men" you speak of. Adam and Eve were not the first 2 humans to spring forth all of humanity as some would have you believe. They were special and had a specific task, but it was not to start the human race. As the human race had already been established XX,XXX of years before Adam and Eve were even created.

I don’t think so.

If you were to add up the years mentioned in the Old Testament (this is based on translations of the Masoretic Text (eg KJV, NRSV, NASB, NJPS, etc), not the Septuagint or the Samaritan Torah), then it would the date of Adam’s creation at about 6000 years ago, hence 4000 BCE.

But according to archaeology in the Middle East, the cultures and industries in this region, would date be the Late Neolithic period.

The Neolithic period started around about 12,000 years ago, hence approximately 10,000 BCE, which coincide with the end of last glacial period. The warmer climate allow for people to settle down more, constructing huts or something more permanent, thereby starting agricultural industries, starting learning how to farm and animal husbandry, and several thousand years later, to make ceramic (pottery) that help store food.

By 5000 BCE, Neolithic towns and cities began appearing more frequently.

Jericho for example is the site of successive settlements being built on top of each other, and the oldest settlement date as early as 9000 BCE. By around 8400 BCE, this settlement grew large enough to have 70 homes, where the inhabitants build stone wall around this town, at least 3 metres high.

Jericho is evidence that people in this area, weren’t living in caves.

The Neolithic settlement in the Barada basin is about as old as Jericho. But unlike Jericho, Damascus didn’t become a prominent city, until late 2nd millennium, Late Bronze Age.

In pre-Sumerian Mesopotamia, the city, which the Genesis 10, called Erech, but better known as Uruk, the first settlement there was about 5000 BCE.

Like Jericho, Uruk have newer settlement being built on top of older settlements. But throughout the 4th millennium BCE, from 4000 to 3040 BCE, it was the largest and richest Neolithic city, not on in pre-Sumerian Mesopotamia, but in the world.

Temples were built for Inanna (Akkadian Ishtar) and An (Anu) in Uruk around 3500 BCE, gods that continued to be worshipped later by the Bronze Age Sumerians of the 3rd millennium BCE. Around the same time, when these temples were being built, older form of cuneiforms were discovered on site, that predated Sumerian cuneiforms; it is believed that the older cuneiforms evolved into earliest Sumerian writing, around 3000 BCE.

The fact this city exist before the mythological Flood, which make Genesis 10 wrong, about Uruk being built by a grandson of Ham, Nimrod, after the Flood.

My points in all this, for some of the Neolithic people, these settlements mean, they have given up the nomadic lifestyle of hunters and gatherers, therefore taking up growing crops and livestock.

Of course, nomads and hunters still exist among some people, and even persisted to the Iron Age, but you cannot called Neolithic people “cavemen”.

But anyway, Adam and Eve, as the first humans, don’t exist, except in myths, especially when you considered that the modern humans (Homo sapiens), which would include the Cro-Magnon people, predated the Neolithic people, as early as 200,000 years ago (Middle Palaeolithic period).
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?
I have posted repeatedly....
Day Six.....Man as a species
go forth, be fruitful, multiply, dominate all things
subdue the earth

Chapter Two.....a specimen is chosen and an alteration performed

I suspect, language was already a possiblity
probably some level of written symbol communication

cave dwelling?
any port in the storm
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
How does a person fit prehistoric man into Christianity?

Where there any references anywhere made for Neathandrals and Cro-Magnon humans?

I believe not. The Bible is ethnocentric. Other than mentioning that man was created in the beginning there is nothing.

Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden so they were not cave persons.

I believe the creation in the beginning came an extensively long time before the creation of Adam & Eve although it is my belief the Adamic race pre-existed and died out so that was why they needed to be re-created. DNA does seem to bear that concept.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You don't. Those who wrote the texts that became Christianity were entirely ignorant of that history, and therefore unable to incorporate it into their myth.

I do not believe that the people who wrote it were the source of the information. I believe the source was God and He knows all things but He will only tell what is important for people to hear.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is what I have said also. The people outside the Garden would have given Cain plenty of wife material the choose from.

I believe it is fascinating that Cain went east and bore a mark and there is an eastern people who bear marks.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I don’t think so.

If you were to add up the years mentioned in the Old Testament (this is based on translations of the Masoretic Text (eg KJV, NRSV, NASB, NJPS, etc), not the Septuagint or the Samaritan Torah), then it would the date of Adam’s creation at about 6000 years ago, hence 4000 BCE.

You cannot determine the amount of time that passed since Eden or the amount of time Adam and Eve were present in Eden. Remember God walked with Adam and Eve in Eden. God exist outside of time, so one day with God in Eden is many many thousands of years outside the boundaries of Eden. The amount of time Adam and Eve spent in Eden, lets say 10 years, was 10's if not 100's of thousands of years to beings outside of Eden. The bible, Torah, whatevs, does not give enough info to be able to calculate these numbers. Simply adding up lifespans of prominent figures, at best, can only take you back to when Adam and Eve got kicked out of Eden, which maybe 6,000 or 7,000 years ago, but Eh /shrug. There is not enough info to determine how much time was spent in Eden, because Genesis does not specify how many "days" they walked with the Lord in Eden before being tempted.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You cannot determine the amount of time that passed since Eden or the amount of time Adam and Eve were present in Eden. Remember God walked with Adam and Eve in Eden. God exist outside of time, so one day with God in Eden is many many thousands of years outside the boundaries of Eden.

All that is based on assumptions. It is speculative and very subjective.

The only source to the Genesis - other than those in the Oral Torah (eg transmission to the rabbinic texts, like Talmud, Midrash) and that of works from the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha and the Gnostic Nag Hammadi Library - 5:3-5, only give his ages, when he became father of Seth and when he died.

All you are doing is projecting the simile of "one day is like a thousand years..." as if it were literal.

This "like a thousand years" doesn't mean "equal to a thousand years". It is a simile, a literary device, where you compare something to something else, by using word "like". It is never meant to be literal. Simile is similar to a metaphor, where the comparisons of something to something completely different, is only symbolic or metaphoric.

So if write something like "Usain Bolt run as swift like the wind", it doesn't mean he is the "wind". Often a person is compared to some sort of animals, when using simile. So if I changed this same sentence, slightly, eg "Usain Bolt run as fast like the cheetah", it doesn't mean that Bolt is really a cheetah.

You are taking the whole "one day is like a thousand years" from one text, and trying to twist the meaning of another text. This is really a dishonest tactics, that I often seen being used by theists, and more frequently among creationists.
 
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