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Can Science Prove There Are No Ghosts

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture

You don't prove negatives. That's not how it works. Anyone making a positive claim needs to be prepared to offer evidence to support the claim. If someone claims there are ghosts it is up to them to provide evidence for their claim. It's not up to anyone else to somehow prove that ghosts do NOT exist. That would be silly.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You mean equipment that actually exists vs non-existent equipment? :D

Some "Ghost Hunters" like T.A.P.S. apparently aren't all that scientific.

Ghost-Hunting Mistakes: Science and Pseudoscience in Ghost Investigations - CSI
Ghost hunters and the like are all complete pseudoscience.

They're in the entertainment business anyways so it's not really all that surprising. It's like those fake documentaries on Bigfoot and extraterrestrials as ancient alien theorists believe...
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture
What leads you to believe that the picture is authentic and untampered with?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture

What makes this a ghost?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.
Which is most likely?

That the anomalies in the image are:
─ real people moving so as to blur the shot
─ real people but photographed with camera shake
─ coincidental shapes from shadows, cloth, or the like
─ coincidental optical phenomena
─ artifacts of the camera process
─ clever fakes
─ productions of an unidentified physical cause
─ some combination of these factors
─ representations of unspecified dead people, present for unknown reasons, from an unknown source, of an unknown kind that has, at the least, the property of absorbing and reflecting light, hence is material?
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture

Most if not all "ghost" photos are fake. There is a lot of doctoring you can do with photography. Also many are due to something as simple as a smudge on the lens. Having said this, I do not doubt that people see apparitions and experience "ghostlike" phenomena from time-to-time; reports like this have been found throughout history for millenia. Science has not explained them yet, but this certainly doesn't mean that they are unexplainable, or point to the existence of a god or life after death.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture

I believe spirits exist but in the manner of how the mind works. Science of psychology and physiology rather than supernatural explanations.

If you took that same photo, put a Mc Donalds Background, and showed it to a stranger out of the states, he most likely wont catch the supernatural nature of what you see. He doesnt have the background of what a ghost is. He probably never seen a photo before. That and who sees ghosts at a Mc Donalds? They saw ghosts at the house were the excercist was shot in DC. People till this day dont want to walk on the property. Preconcieved bias.

Talk to me ten years ago in my twenties and tell me about god, Id probably think youre speaking in a foreign language.

Background kmowledge, how we are raised, culture, and how we rationalize has a lot to do with our "supernatural" experiences. That and supernatural is only experiences we cannot explain. Whatever definitions we add to it contradicts the fact of why its supernatural. If you know its a ghost, its not supernatural. Just a part of life.

Also, I wouldnt trust a photograph to pick up ghosts. Thats like my taking a picture of my hand and because the lines are shaped like a pencil, I conclude there is an invible there that is before I close my hand and the lines bend.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Well, I was talking about the cumulative weight of millions of events in the human experience considered for quality, quantity and consistency.

A sceptic can argue any one case like the Stanley Hotel into infinity but my position is based on my judgment of the entire phenomena. So many uncelebrated real-world cases even with physical phenomena, multiple witnesses, etc..

Sure, most are fake or explainable. Few could be real, but it isn't incontrovertible proof. Better to keep an open mind and look at each separately. The Stanley Hotel capitalizes on its reputation with tours and such so they make money off the publicity.

There is the story of room 217 and the story of an explosion that happened there.

"In 1911, Room 217 was the Presidential Suite, said Jesse Freitas, the hotel's archivist: an L-shaped room that took up the space that now houses two rooms: 217 and 215. On the evening of June 25 of that year, a thunderstorm cut the power and all of the hotel's guests were taken down to the lobby while staff was charged with lighting the back-up acetylene gas lamps. There was an unknown gas leak when chambermaid Elizabeth Wilson entered Room 217 with a lit candle.

"The gas didn't have an odor in that time period," said Freitas, "so she couldn't smell anything. As soon as she entered the room, there was an instant explosion." The massive blast destroyed about 10% of the nearly 70,000 square-foot hotel, it's entire west wing. "It was a compression explosion," Freitas explained, "so it actually put out its own fire, otherwise it would have burned down the hotel because it is mostly wood, a timber-frame structure." The force of the explosion sent Wilson crashing into the MacGregor Dining Room located directly under Room 217. She suffered two broken ankles, but recovered from her injuries. Stanley paid her all her medical bills and after she recuperated, Wilson was made head chambermaid and worked at the hotel until her death in the 1950s. After her death, she purportedly began to haunt the room, sometimes by folding guests' clothing and putting them away. If an unmarried couple is occupying the room, Freitas said, the very proper Mrs. Wilson's ghost may climb into bed with them and try to force them apart.

That's the official story as told by Freitas, the one that is generally accepted as what really happened. But any good ghost story also contains quite a bit of mystery. Five different Colorado news accounts of the incident reported five different - sometimes vastly different - stories. The Denver Times reported just a day later that the chambermaid's name was Elizabeth Lambert and that she was fatally injured. The same report said that she was joined on the second floor by another maid, Eva Colbern, who was "thrown through a wall onto the hotel porch.. but she was merely stunned.

This is the most paranormal story we tell because it's such a mystery," said Freitas. No employee records from the time period are still at the hotel, and no photograph of Elizabeth-Lizzie-Wilson-Lambert-Leitenbergher of Lancaster, PA, can be found."

...

However, the news accounts of what happened are all different.

"Five different Colorado news accounts of the incident reported five different - sometimes vastly different - stories. The Denver Times reported just a day later that the chambermaid's name was Elizabeth Lambert and that she was fatally injured. The same report said that she was joined on the second floor by another maid, Eva Colbern, who was "thrown through a wall onto the hotel porch.. but she was merely stunned."

The Denver Post also reported Elizabeth "Lambert" was fatally injured during her fall into the dining room "just as a fashionable throng of guests was finishing dinner." Somehow all of the guests narrowly escaped injury as Room 217 fell into their laps. But this account describes a fire that "added to the damage" which was heroically put out by Miss Colburn after she had been "blown through a hole in the wall, onto the porch." She then grabbed a fire extinguisher and began fighting the flames. A third maid, Mary Donaldson, was also caught in the explosion (according to the Post), and she too found an extinguisher and began to put out the fire.

The Colorado Springs Gazette reported a story close to what is accepted as the truth, but added that an addition seven people were injured. The report further identified the broken-ankle victim as head chambermaid, Elizabeth Wilson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

A report that ran in the Rocky Mountain News was a submitted story, the byline read "special to the News." It reported the accepted true version of Wilson sustaining two broken ankles, but further reported Alfred Lamborn, general manager of the hotel, and wife and daughter were having dinner in the room below. "A large steel girder from the second floor crashed down, landing between the three, smashing the table," stated the News, "The party escaped with bruises." This report also said that the incident started while testing the acetelyne gas system and a small explosion had occurred about an hour prior to the big one. Then, the door to Room 217 blew off. "Employees then went in search of the leak to the room on second floor. A moment later, a terrific detonation startled the guests of the hotel."

And finally, the Fort Collins Weekly Courier reported that the acetelyne gas explosion was a result of unknown circumstances, since the gaslights were not in operation at the time. This report claimed that guests had been saved because "a late dinner was to be served" that evening. Curiously, in the Fort Collins report the victim is named Lizzie Leitenbergher.

None of the reports mentioned a thunderstorm, and all of the reports said the victim(s) were taken to Longmont Hospital. Also, all the stories agree the explosion occurred at around 8 pm."

I can accept differing accounts from eyewitnesses, but five different ones from newspapers of that period is mysterious. And what happened to the records? I don't think the hotel was trying to give misleading or different information on purpose. Maybe the employees or people who were there had differing accounts to tell in their shock and confusion. Investigating something and not having a logical explanation for it can be a bit scary.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Nah. It's your job to put in the work if you're the one trying to disprove it. If you can't prove me wrong, that means I'm right. That's how this works, right? :p

Generally speaking, if I can punch a hole in your story, then it weakens it or it means something else happened. Usually, people do not go in trying to disprove a paranormal event until after the accounts are accounted for.

The work was put in by the photographer who allegedly wasn't trying to gain notoriety or profit. There was work also put in by the paranormal investigations company. However, the explanation of the last company is laughable with its hypothesis of false memory of the photographer. If the woman or the child in the photo came out and said they were there, then it would be different.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
You don't prove negatives. That's not how it works. Anyone making a positive claim needs to be prepared to offer evidence to support the claim. If someone claims there are ghosts it is up to them to provide evidence for their claim. It's not up to anyone else to somehow prove that ghosts do NOT exist. That would be silly.

Ha ha ha ha. You sound like the last company or the internet atheist. If the last company in the story had said there was a witness who saw the photographer having a few drinks earlier or found that he had made a similar claim in the past which didn't turn out, then they would have a negative to back up their claim. This is how one proves a negative with the story.
 
Last edited:

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
Generally speaking, if I can punch a hole in your story, then it weakens it or it means something else happened. Usually, people do not go in trying to disprove a paranormal event until after the accounts are accounted for.

The work was put in by the photographer who allegedly wasn't trying to gain notoriety or profit. There was work also put in by the paranormal investigations company. However, the explanation of the last company is laughable with its hypothesis of false memory of the photographer. If the woman or the child in the photo came out and said they were there, then it would be different.
Then please get started. Until you prove me wrong, I am right. If you disbelieve before then, you just don't want to believe. Sooo biased.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha ha. You sound like the last company or the internet atheist. If the last company in the story had said there was a witness who saw the photographer having a few drinks earlier or found that he had made a similar claim in the past which didn't turn out, then they would have a negative to back up their claim. This is how one proves a negative with the story.


HAHAHA... and you sound like someone who doesn't comprehend basic logic or how the scientific method works. Rather sad and pathetic.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It's My Birthday!
I have a friend who is an actor. He landed a job on an episode of one of the ghost investigation programs. Being a believer in ghosts but never encountering one he was over the moon that at last he may fulfil a livelong dream. He arrived on set in a ancient welsh castle, all very atmospheric. He was handed the script, began reading it then walked out as soon as he noticed the ghosts were scripted too. His lifelong dream ruined.

No science cannot prove or disprove bs.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Sure, most are fake or explainable.
After many years of interest, I have to disagree. I form my opinion much more off of the millions of uncelebrated cases by normal competent people with no vested interest. 99% are never fully explained but certainly suggest ghostly phenomena.
Few could be real, but it isn't incontrovertible proof. Better to keep an open mind and look at each separately. The Stanley Hotel capitalizes on its reputation with tours and such so they make money off the publicity.
I actually take less interest than most in these celebrated cases as too many cooks get involved in the broth as you pointed out.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
He was handed the script, began reading it then walked out as soon as he noticed the ghosts were scripted too.
Well of course everything is scripted in a script. It is not a live investigation. Usually those programs have actors doing recreations of claimed events. It is always clear to me that I am seeing a recreation. I don't see a problem with that.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It's My Birthday!
Well of course everything is scripted in a script. It is not a live investigation. Usually those programs have actors doing recreations of claimed events. It is always clear to me that I am seeing a recreation. I don't see a problem with that.

Except the program is billed as live and genuine.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You have been posting here for 4 years now, and you still don’t understand science.

Science don’t work that way.

If anyone is making a claim, be they “natural” or “supernatural”, then it is up to the claimant to provide evidences for the claim to be true, and not for others to provide them.

No claims are “true” by default, when there are no evidences.

Those people who think anything can be true by default because of the claim being “unprovable” or “lack evidences”, are utterly illogical and fools.

The claim can only be “true” if you can provide verifiable evidences for the claim; it is not ever true if there are no evidences.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Ghosts or spirits remain in the realm of the supernatural. I didn't believe in them except for the Holy Ghost, even though I believe in the supernatural, but now I'm not so sure. If science can prove there are no ghosts, then I suppose the atheists and their scientists have some disproof of God and the supernatural.

The weirdest one I've encountered is the ghost at Stanley Hotel. It was the hotel made famous by The Shining.

14d8ad400e6c4f0e0c92cf443fea9f26
59d744b42000000e34085672.jpeg


Stanley Hotel where The Shining was shot

I do not have an explanation for this. Of course, the atheists won't believe because it's the supernatural. Christians believe in angels and demons, but there's argument over ghosts. One can clearly see a figure of a woman and child once they blow up the embedded photo. I'm beginning to think the photographer wasn't out just to make money for himself. We have unrelated expert people and companies who have examined the photos. Any altered or Photoshopped images would have been discovered.

'Ghosts' Caught On Camera At Famed Stanley Hotel In Colorado | HuffPost

From earlier this year
Paranormal investigator sees something else in Stanley Hotel picture
James, if you get a chance, read Exodus 7. The account where Moses throws down his staff before Pharaoh. Remember what Jannes and Jambres do? They have forces on their side, working against God!

I believe these same invisible spirits are working harder than ever today, toying with humans, just enough to get some to believe they exist as dead human ghosts, but not enough to convince the rest, like atheists...they already got them misled. Always ready to mislead anyone, but especially those wanting to search for God..... either through false science, or false religion, or simply by keeping people too busy with life, to search. -- Revelation 12

Take care, cousin.
 
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