Ouch! Why do you repeat yourself so much @Faithofchristian
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Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Because there are those, who seem not to understand simple 2+2=4.
Look as I was trying to explain about the Strong's Concordance that not everything in the bible was written in the Greek language, That's why in the Strong's Concordance you have the Hebrew and Greek Translations.
Now you have 2+2=4
I think I might like you.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
1 Thes.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The word "clouds" could distract what "air" means. But your analogy is sound and does show spiritual understanding. Seeing spiritual over words of flesh is what reveals the "mystery" and "hidden knowledge" Paul spoke of.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Those clouds are not actually clouds as we see in the sky.
Those clouds are those who are dress in White linen and riding upon White Horses, That from a distance they look like clouds.
Revelation 19:14 --"And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothes in fine linen, white and clean"
Therefore those are not actually clouds as we see them in the sky.
But the armies that were in heaven followed Christ that from a distance they look like clouds, but are actually the armies coming with Christ Jesus upon white horses and clothed in White linen.
I thought clouds might mean not easily discerned and wet.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
If you go to Revelation 19:14, There you will find the armies of heaven upon white horses and those coming in white linen. Therefore from a distance they would look like white clouds.
OK. White = clouds.Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
But not actually clouds as we see them in the sky.
But those coming with Jesus upon white horses and clothed in White linen. That the appearance of them would look like clouds from the distance.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
Revelations was scooped up by the early catholics (3rd century). The early Christains neither read it nor accepted it as Gospel. Same with the Apocolypse of Peter, that was canon accepted till many centuries later, then removed from canon, though the Catholic church still accepts it as such. Peter is even more grotesque and scarier than the John who penned Revelations. In the early RCC, The AoP was only read on Easter. Like John, very physical with only slight spiritual overtones.
To the spiritual seeker, there are many books that teach spiritual understanding over Revelations. A book that teaches that the end is just around the corner..........for two thousand years.
To the spiritual seeker, there are many books that teach spiritual understanding over Revelations. A book that teaches that the end is just around the corner..........for two thousand years.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
When the time comes, what man will see won't be with his (physical) eyes. The term "thief" is used.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Then maybe you can explain how every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him, and all kindreds of the earth shall wait because of him. Revelation 1:7
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
Sure. Paul sums it up best:
1 Corinth:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The veil (from the evil one) will be lifted, and we will know. Not by seeing (physically) but by understanding. We live in part and need to embrace what little we know and understand.
Those who pierced him are the ones who denied him. Once revealed (through understanding) many will "wail" at being misled while we only had "part".
Personally, the church of today will have a lot to answer for.
Matthew:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The Father is spirit, and the key is "spiritual understanding". Not as man gives, but as the Spirit (capital S) dictates.
Thomas:
(39) Jesus says:
(1) "The Pharisees and the scribes have received the keys of knowledge, (but) they have hidden them.
(2) Neither have they entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.
(3) You, however, be as shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves!"
The priests (of the Pharisee's) and the priests today are no different.
Matthew:
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Orthodoxy is a doctrine of men. The Nicene Creed is a doctrine of men. The Bible is a doctrine of men. Many men throughout history has gained great power and led many by this doctrine. But the leaders weren't saved from becoming liars. murderers, adulterers, cheats and thieves.
The Holy Spirit reveals her words to the spiritual seeker. And when you hear her, you understand that you are her son, as well as son of the Father.
John:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The power comes through understanding. Spiritual gnosis is understanding.
Waiting for Revelations to occur (no matter what you think it says) is not spiritual gnosis.
1 Corinth:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The veil (from the evil one) will be lifted, and we will know. Not by seeing (physically) but by understanding. We live in part and need to embrace what little we know and understand.
Those who pierced him are the ones who denied him. Once revealed (through understanding) many will "wail" at being misled while we only had "part".
Personally, the church of today will have a lot to answer for.
Matthew:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The Father is spirit, and the key is "spiritual understanding". Not as man gives, but as the Spirit (capital S) dictates.
Thomas:
(39) Jesus says:
(1) "The Pharisees and the scribes have received the keys of knowledge, (but) they have hidden them.
(2) Neither have they entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.
(3) You, however, be as shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves!"
The priests (of the Pharisee's) and the priests today are no different.
Matthew:
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Orthodoxy is a doctrine of men. The Nicene Creed is a doctrine of men. The Bible is a doctrine of men. Many men throughout history has gained great power and led many by this doctrine. But the leaders weren't saved from becoming liars. murderers, adulterers, cheats and thieves.
The Holy Spirit reveals her words to the spiritual seeker. And when you hear her, you understand that you are her son, as well as son of the Father.
John:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The power comes through understanding. Spiritual gnosis is understanding.
Waiting for Revelations to occur (no matter what you think it says) is not spiritual gnosis.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Ok, Since you say, that Revelation is not Spiritual.
Then by all means, Who are the Locust army in Revelation 9:3.
Remember you said that Revelation is not
Spiritual, So it should be easy for you, to tell who exactly who are the Locust army is
What does it mean exactly in
Revelation 9:15 Prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year,
What does this mean?
What does it mean exactly in
Revelation 9:18, By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
So what does this all mean ?
Now Remember that you said that Revelation is not Spiritual, so it should be easy for you to explain what all these symbols Represents and Who?
Did he? I think he didn't say that. He said, "waiting for it to occur is not spiritual".
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
That's still not right, Waiting for Revelation to happen is Spiritual, otherwise all the things in Revelation would be plain to understand.
Do you know exactly who are the Locust army is, in Revelation 9:3.
Do you know exactly what it means in Revelation 9:18, Who are these Three, Was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
What exactly does this all mean.
What does it mean in Revelation 8:1 There was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
What does this mean ?
The answer to all of these are found in the book of Revelation.
The issue is about waiting. What are you waiting for?
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
I don't waste my time with such nonsense. Brimstone out of mouths. Locust army. Really?
Understanding spiritual gnosis leaves behind those who play in parables.
Luke (and Matthew):
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
No, and I mean NO, book of scripture backs up either the book of Revelations or the Apocalypse of Peter. They reek of the same fear the Jews used in the OT. The last prophet was John the Baptist.
Secret book of James:
Then I questioned him: "Lord how may we prophesy to those who ask us to prophesy to them? For there are many who ask us and who look to us to hear an oracle from us."
The Lord answered and said: "Do you not know that the head of prophecy was cut off with John?"
And I said: "Lord, it is not possible to remove the head of prophecy, is it?"
The Lord said to me: "When you come to know what 'head' is, and that prophecy issues from the head, then understand what is the meaning of 'Its head was removed'. I first spoke with you in parables, and you did not understand. Now, in turn, I speak with you openly, and you do not perceive. But it is you who were to me a parable in parables and what is apparent in what are open.
Once Jesus came and the Spirit given, there was no need of seers nor prophesies. Too many seek future answers foolishly, when what is important is you.........now.
I see Jesus saying "what is that to thee? follow thou me.". - John 21
I seek spiritual understanding. Not being caught up in unsolved mysteries of the orthodox.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
How many throughout history has waited for Revelations to come. In 1917, the whole church believed it was here (WW1). The Bobonic Plague was said the beginning as well. It killed 25 million in the Roman Empire (6th century) and one third of the world population in the 14th century.
Jesus had an answer for those seeking the end:
Gospel of Thomas:
(18)
(1) The disciples said to Jesus: "Tell us how our end will be."
(2) Jesus said: "Have you already discovered the beginning that you are now asking about the end?
For where the beginning is, there the end will be too.
(3) Blessed is he who will stand at the beginning.
And he will know the end, and he will not taste death."
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
So you seek Spiritual understanding.
Let's see if you have Spiritual understanding to discern in the book of John 20 11-12, As Mary stood by the tomb, she look inside and saw two angels. One sitting at the feet, and one sitting at the head, Where the body of Jesus had laid.
What is the reason for those two angels to be sitting in the way their sitting. What are they Revealing in the way their sitting.