The Contradiction of an All-powerful, All-knowing God

[scott777]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

 

[Nakosis]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

I'll just point out it's a lot easier to work with a God who is not all-knowing/powerful.

Hower religion doesn't have to make sense or work with your ideas of logic. You just need faith in whatever the belief is.

Not that the logic and understanding is not there, you just need to accept both are beyond your capability.

You just need faith, which includes the faith that you will be provided with both when God deems you fit for it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.
This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.
If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.
If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.
If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.
Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

God's gift of free-will choices means God chooses to Not to know our choices in advance.
We can all choose to live by the Golden Rule or not. God does Not interfere with out choices.
The wilfully wicked do Not end up in any hell, but as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
The Bible's hell is simply the stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead as dead Jesus was in hell as per Acts 2:27.
Jesus, and the old Hebrew Scriptures, both teach un-conscious sleep in death as we can read at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Biblical hell is temporary otherwise Jesus would still be in hell. The Bible's hell or grave comes to a final end when everyone in the Bible's hell according to Revelation 20:13-14 are ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of hell before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

 

[Super Universe]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

You atheists always try to make logic arguments about whether God can be this and that. You can't figure it out because you haven't been given enough information and the information you do have went through ignorant humans who were terrified of comets.

God does not judge. Jesus is the judge.

There is no hell. Hell is the idea of separation from God but nothing can truly separate from God so hell is like having your program turned off. Your file still exists with God but it will never be opened again. And when Jesus spoke of the idea of hell He was issuing a warning to Lucifer, not humans. You always think everything is or has to be about you.

The reason for life is so God can experience things He could not otherwise experience.

God is all knowing but He does not know that which He does not know. What all knowing means is that God now knows everything past, present, and future in the universe. All time is the exact same moment in heaven. But, it is possible that God could have a future plan for another universe where there is a random element added to free will personalities, meaning, God would not know what would happen until it happened.

 

[DavidFirth]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

Fallacy: Argument from Assumption. Premises do not logically point to the definite conclusion.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

God's gift of free-will choices means God chooses to Not to know our choices in advance.
We can all choose to live by the Golden Rule or not. God does Not interfere with out choices.
The wilfully wicked do Not end up in any hell, but as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
The Bible's hell is simply the stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead as dead Jesus was in hell as per Acts 2:27.
Jesus, and the old Hebrew Scriptures, both teach un-conscious sleep in death as we can read at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Biblical hell is temporary otherwise Jesus would still be in hell. The Bible's hell or grave comes to a final end when everyone in the Bible's hell according to Revelation 20:13-14 are ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of hell before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

Good job! Many can’t seem to understand that the concept of the immortal soul, and the concept of the Resurrection, are contradictory beliefs! One catn’t be “alive somewhere”, then also “brought back to life”! The concept of being resurrected is found throughout the Scriptures; immortality is not.

 

[james dixon]

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

Even if He knows what is going to happen before it happens it does not change the fact that God gave us the choice to choose what we do. Even if He knows we are going to destroy ourselves it doesn't happen until it happens and the choice still remains with us, not Him.

The bottom line is, chose wisely for His is watching -

 

[leibowde84]

I'll just point out it's a lot easier to work with a God who is not all-knowing/powerful.

Hower religion doesn't have to make sense or work with your ideas of logic. You just need faith in whatever the belief is.

Not that the logic and understanding is not there, you just need to accept both are beyond your capability.

You just need faith, which includes the faith that you will be provided with both when God deems you fit for it.

I like this answer. It's just faith.

 

[leibowde84]

God's gift of free-will choices means God chooses to Not to know our choices in advance.
We can all choose to live by the Golden Rule or not. God does Not interfere with out choices.
The wilfully wicked do Not end up in any hell, but as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
The Bible's hell is simply the stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead as dead Jesus was in hell as per Acts 2:27.
Jesus, and the old Hebrew Scriptures, both teach un-conscious sleep in death as we can read at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Biblical hell is temporary otherwise Jesus would still be in hell. The Bible's hell or grave comes to a final end when everyone in the Bible's hell according to Revelation 20:13-14 are ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of hell before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

So, iow, he chooses to not be all-knowing for our benefit. Fair enough.

 

[Father]

Counter: the Abrahamic God cannot logically exist but the Deistic God can.

Deism just claims the universe has a supreme creator(s) supreme as in this universe we don't know about outside of it. but the God of deism simply set up the Universe giving it a few simple Laws which if you run a Universe simulation you only need 2-3 Laws and then they build themselves knew one's with more complexity.
furthermore, the Deistic God cares little for creation. other than it set it up and lets it run itself for some motive. it proclaims no benevolence as the idea of Good and Evil are subjective and man-made. so why would they apply to a being 1trillion times greater?

then again the OT God never claimed to be All-knowing or All-powerful. after all Omni is Latin and those 4 principles were thought up by a Catholic philosopher,
all OT God claims is to of made man and the universe, and that he is a jealous and wrathful prick. who you should worship or get smited

 

[Enoch07]

I'd like to see an original idea. This same question has been asked so many times. Is it really that hard to come up with a new angle?

 

[Father]

I'd like to see an original idea. This same question has been asked so many times. Is it really that hard to come up with a new angle?

new angle? the question still works. there is no way for a Christian to answer it other than God is not omniscient or omnipotent or he is just a prick. simply pick one

I don't see why there needs to be a new angle. when this one works fine.

 

[Enoch07]

new angle? the question still works. there is no way for a Christian to answer it other than God is not omniscient or omnipotent or he is just a prick. simply pick one

I don't see why there needs to be a new angle. when this one works fine.

It's been discussed through the years ad nauseam. Maybe if someone came up with a new an interesting angle? But no just the same boring angle.

 

[Willamena]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

Okay. The fresh take is that the omniscience of god belongs to another mythology, and you ought not to mix them as one.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

So your argument is that we don't exist. Well done.

 

[David T]

No god can be all-knowing and all-powerful.

This not a new argument, but I’d like to hear any fresh takes on it.

If a god is all knowing, he must know in advance everything every person is going to do and can therefore judge them even before giving them life.

If he judges they should go to hell, there is no reason to give them life. In fact, that would simply allow them to do whatever bad things they are going to do, so the decision to give them life would itself be a sin and a contribution to evil.

If he judges they should go to heaven, there is again no possible reason for them to have a life, which would be a comparative punishment.

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

Therefore reductionism is absolute self deluded garbage in religion in science in totality as being much of anything but a convince a tool a tiny fraction.

 

[scott777]

I'll just point out it's a lot easier to work with a God who is not all-knowing/powerful.

Hower religion doesn't have to make sense or work with your ideas of logic. You just need faith in whatever the belief is.

Not that the logic and understanding is not there, you just need to accept both are beyond your capability.

You just need faith, which includes the faith that you will be provided with both when God deems you fit for it.

So what you believe doesn’t have to make sense?

So really, I could choose to believe anything at all? Such as I’m God or I’m Napoleon? And I should be respected for that belief and my actions should be respected?

 

[scott777]

God's gift of free-will choices means God chooses to Not to know our choices in advance.
We can all choose to live by the Golden Rule or not. God does Not interfere with out choices.
The wilfully wicked do Not end up in any hell, but as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
The Bible's hell is simply the stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead as dead Jesus was in hell as per Acts 2:27.
Jesus, and the old Hebrew Scriptures, both teach un-conscious sleep in death as we can read at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Biblical hell is temporary otherwise Jesus would still be in hell. The Bible's hell or grave comes to a final end when everyone in the Bible's hell according to Revelation 20:13-14 are ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of hell before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

What possible reason would a god choose not to know? Surely if someone is destined to turn out like Hitler or Pol Pot, god would be negligent in the extreme to choose ignorance.

 

[scott777]

You atheists always try to make logic arguments about whether God can be this and that. You can't figure it out because you haven't been given enough information and the information you do have went through ignorant humans who were terrified of comets.

God does not judge. Jesus is the judge.

There is no hell. Hell is the idea of separation from God but nothing can truly separate from God so hell is like having your program turned off. Your file still exists with God but it will never be opened again. And when Jesus spoke of the idea of hell He was issuing a warning to Lucifer, not humans. You always think everything is or has to be about you.

The reason for life is so God can experience things He could not otherwise experience.

God is all knowing but He does not know that which He does not know. What all knowing means is that God now knows everything past, present, and future in the universe. All time is the exact same moment in heaven. But, it is possible that God could have a future plan for another universe where there is a random element added to free will personalities, meaning, God would not know what would happen until it happened.

Sorry, I’m not familiar with that religion. So it's not God who judges you in heaven? Is it Jesus? Is Jesus also all-knowing and all-powerful? So you seem to be saying God is all-knowing but he doesn’t know some things. I’m more confused than ever.

 

[scott777]

Fallacy: Argument from Assumption. Premises do not logically point to the definite conclusion.

Which assumption?

 

[Nakosis]

So what you believe doesn’t have to make sense?

So really, I could choose to believe anything at all? Such as I’m God or I’m Napoleon? And I should be respected for that belief and my actions should be respected?

Sure, if no verification or validation is required.

This is how I see religious or supernatural belief. Where nothing can be proven, you are free to believe whatever you want.

Folks may feel they are justified in their beliefs but if they can't justify/prove/backup that belief, then it's not really justified. So why pretend that it is?