How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmmm. Sorry, for intruding. That reads as any believer who has the holy spirit has permission to interpret the words of god. Those who do not believe in the holy spirit cannot interpret scripture. So, a JW cannot interpret scripture according to Peter because they don't believe in the holy spirit of the trinity. Man being the interpretation of the flesh or sin (someone without the holy spirit) whereas christians who believe they have the holy spirit can interpret it just as a prophet.

It is only the Great Beings that are born of the Holy Spirit.

All of us, Humanity are born of the Human Spirit, which must connect with the Spirit of Faith to allow the Holy Spirit to shine from.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The onus, in my view, is on the person whose basic principles are being spoken, to decide how to take it. That's why I think it's best to say nothing at all.

There is no greater Truth than that Faith is our own Choice.

We are gifted with choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The two statements in one passage are conflicting.

Regards Tony

Yes. The quote that Bahai quotes from The Buddha: "unchanging and not unchanging..." it's showing the interdependency of everything without attaching to what we are dependent on as if it were our self.

So you are dependent on, say, you being Tony. Tony and your characteristics of Tony are dependent on each other. However, if you wanted to see your Buddha nature, you'd realize your self is unchanging and changing; dependent and not dependent. The emptiness is realizing that the Tony you are attached (dependent) on is not Tony as in your nature. You're separated from your nature but dependent on it until you experience no more rebirth and thereby, the conflict is over.

You die.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And then that interpretation is only known to his grandson, and his son. Just as with original thought (that's always open for debate) so too with interpretations. They exist accurately only in one mind.

Do you know how many kings passed their power to their heir, the eldest son, who then turned out to be a total goof? Far too many. This is one of the pitfalls of keeping it all in the family. Too big a risk.

I personally have Faith in God that all the choices I face are a bounty in growth.

That we have been given the ability to know what is of God is thought provoking. As to me it means God knows our choices and puts in front of us what feeds our heart desires.

If the heart desires anything that is not of God, then the heart will have it.

This is my fear of God, that God will continue to allow my own free will. It is hard to say with any outward logic, but I no longer want any of me.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Where is Mind?

Regards Tony

No where. @Vinayaka explained it better. In my words, it's energy that never dies but is reborn in each life until the mind/thoughts/awareness knows that everything is impermanent (changing and unchanging). Thereby, you're not attached (dependent) on anything, then your mind is enlightened.

No where. It's a state of being not a place it resides.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes. The quote that Bahai quotes from The Buddha: "unchanging and not unchanging..." it's showing the interdependency of everything without attaching to what we are dependent on as if it were our self.

So you are dependent on, say, you being Tony. Tony and your characteristics of Tony are dependent on each other. However, if you wanted to see your Buddha nature, you'd realize your self is unchanging and changing; dependent and not dependent. The emptiness is realizing that the Tony you are attached (dependent) on is not Tony as in your nature. You're separated from your nature but dependent on it until you experience no more rebirth and thereby, the conflict is over.

You die.

I offer with this you Live.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is only the Great Beings that are born of the Holy Spirit.

All of us, Humanity are born of the Human Spirit, which must connect with the Spirit of Faith to allow the Holy Spirit to shine from.

Regards Tony

Tony, please use a clause. I'm trying to get used to your opinion and what you are stating as fact.

In Christianity (I'm always talking from Christianity because they have the first say not my own personal beliefs) the holy spirit is in those who believe (aka the pentecost in Acts) hence pentecostals.

The prophets in the bible talked with god directly. The holy spirit came from christ (the dove etc) when he was resurrected. The apostles in Acts were filled with the holy spirit (or I think it says spirit of christ salvation) to evangelize and spread christ word of god.

Prophets are prophets because they spoke to god directly not because they have the holy spirit. Jesus didn't have the holy spirit. He and his father were one. Since christians cannot be one with the father like christ; they are so, by the spirit of christ. Which is, well, um, Holy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I offer with this you Live.

Regards Tony

Huh?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No where. @Vinayaka explained it better. In my words, it's energy that never dies but is reborn in each life until the mind/thoughts/awareness knows that everything is impermanent (changing and unchanging). Thereby, you're not attached (dependent) on anything, then your mind is enlightened.

No where. It's a state of being not a place it resides.

Thus mind is potentially eternal and does not die? Then are we just talking about death of the pyhsical carrier of the Mind?

Regards T9ny

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg I would love to talk to you. You have to be more introspective about other people's teachings christian, buddhist, so have you without reflecting it on your own. I talk to you about Bahaullah only but when I talk about my beliefs as a Buddhist or from what I studied and experience from christianity, you don't go deeper into that but tell me Bahai beliefs instead.

What's up with that?

Another question I keep asking because I honestly have no clue why you cut conversations like this.

 

[oldbadger]

Baha'u'llah has shown that the bounty of this age is that He passed to Abdul'baha and then on to Shoghi Effendi the right to interpret the meaning of what he said.

But that is so strange.
The Divine Words of God as passed to His Ordained Prophet, being oblique and needing further clarification?

Strange....

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Huh?

When the conflice is over you Live.

Sorry little time this week.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thus mind is potentially eternal and does not die? Then are we just talking about death of the pyhsical carrier of the Mind?

Regards Tony

Thank you for asking questions. How would I put this, um. Forgive my elementary example. It's like you have three rivers downstream. The river isn't the same; it's always changing never in the same location. This is the mind. The first bank it flows through is long. The bank being the body, brain, and life around us. It doesn't stop. When the river flows through the body (when the body decays), it enters another bank (another body; it's reborn). It continues for eons for a Bodhisattva and less time for manastics until it gets to the ocean. The ocean isn't ultimate reality. It's the disapearing, I guess, of the illusion that the nature is changing because of the different size of each bank. Once it hits the water, it is still changing and unchanging. It is also perfect peace. That's enlightenment.

Death is not the end for the mind but the merging of the rivers to the ocean (which are dependent on each other; no duality). It's a positive word for the peace that happens when one isn't born again.

The physical body goes through suffering as soon as it's born and to its decay just as everything else. We feel we are attached to our bodies because that is how our mind perceives it. The river is defined by the banks. It's an illusion. It's all ocean. We just call it a different name because of how it flows, the amount of water, for lack of better words, and where it flows between and towards. In other words, opposite of a large body of water.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When the conflice is over you Live.

Sorry little time this week.

Regards Tony

Opposite. The conflict is over, you die. Christianity, it's living. Buddhism, it's dying. That's the nature of life. To extend it is holding on to what we cannot control.

 

[oldbadger]

And then that interpretation is only known to his grandson, and his son. Just as with original thought (that's always open for debate) so too with interpretations. They exist accurately only in one mind.

Do you know how many kings passed their power to their heir, the eldest son, who then turned out to be a total goof? Far too many. This is one of the pitfalls of keeping it all in the family. Too big a risk.

There were problems in the family....... I am sure that Abdul Baha missed a generation, passing authority to his grandson. There were also problems with siblings I believe.

And lifelong supporters were excommunicated after Shogi Effendi's death in various kinds of power struggles.

One of the most clear writers about Bahai that I read and who has posted here is also estranged in some way, for some reason.

It does seem that some alternative viewpoints will be estranged and thus lose voting rights etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You don't have to answer right away. I was cleaning all day so I have time to rest anyway.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh in Persian in front of me wherein Bahá'u'lláh quotes the New Testament Passage in Arabic. [included as .jpg attachment] And indeed in the Arabic the Glory of God that lights the City is translated as Bahá'u'lláh azaa'a feeha, i.e., literally in the Arabic of the New Testament as quoted by the Supreme Manifestation the appellation of Doxa tou Theou is Bahá'u'lláh,​

It seems like the New Testament was translated from Greek to Arabic. Two issues

1. No language can translate 100% in language and culture

2. Edit "Glory to God" is a descriptive-name. Abram, Yeshua, and The Bab were given a descriptive name describing their character or what they did to earn the titles Abraham, The Christ, and Bahaullah. All three are the glory to god. Christ is the only Lamb of God in christianity. Revelations speak of jesus, the Lamb. Bahaullah was not given the name The Lamb so he is not in revelations.

The web page also reads from a Bahai point of view not a Christian and definitely not Jewish point of view.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.​

I am the Lamb of god; I am the Light of the World; I am the Son of God. Philippians 2:11 "...and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."



You're using Bahaullah's text to prove he is in the bible. It has to work both ways. Since we are talking about the Bible, we should start with Biblical text to talk about Bahaullah. If, from biblical text Bahaullah could not be found by context and/or content, then biblically, Bahaullah's text although tangible available, it is not accurate.

Yes you are right they are titles yet not in all passages, but my point was that in Arabic Bibles at that time they were never the less translated as Baha’u’llah. Strictly speaking, the name of Baha’u’llah did appear in the Arabic Bible’s of that time and even more interestingly a lot of the times they were prophecies.

In Ezekiel the Glory of God is clearly described as a Person not a light or just 8n a descriptive manner.

Ezekiel 43:1-12

Then he led me to the gate, the gate facing east. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the east. And the sound of his coming was like the sound of many waters, and the earth shone with his glory. And the vision I saw was just like the vision that I had seen when he came to destroy the city, and just like the vision that I had seen by the Chebar canal. And I fell on my face. As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. ...

If you look at thousands of churches throughout the world you will see they are dedicated to ‘the Glory of God’. In a way so near yet so far. They have all sensed a great significance in the term Glory of God’ even greater than dedicating their churches to Christ!

In Revelation Christians have been told to expect ‘a new name’ and ‘a new song’ and that ‘all things would be made new’. What other than that of a new Revelation from God could this be referring to specifically as it speaks of Christ’s Return?

 

[siti]

I don't know of any of those works were the type of classics that warranted translation into another language but Sen can answer that.

Lord Curzon's Persia and the Persian question may be one of the best books from an outsiders perspective on Persia in the nineteenth century.

Persia and the Persian Question



I suppose time will tell. What the Baha'is have is a community of 5 to 7 million worldwide with 184 elected national assemblies and approximately 20,000 elected local assemblies world wide.

Bahá'í statistics - Wikipedia

Thanks for the links - I will look up the Persian history thing. On the statistics I don't think you should read too much into the numbers. England and Wales has over 14 million people who profess no religion. They are governed by an elected national assembly based in Westminster, London and about 400 or so elected local assemblies - 27 county councils, 201 district councils, and 125 unitary councils. Every adult member of this non-religious group irrespective of gender, sexuality, disability, ethnicity or cultural heritage gets to vote for their preferred representatives at national and local level and this arrangement has ensured that none of them are forced to adopt any religious ideas they find unacceptable to their reason or their conscience.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Come on now, really. Revelation speaks of Christ. There is only one Lamb in christian belief.

I'm only going by the bible because I read that in full. I can't translate Bahai teachings to validate biblical words. I use biblical words to validate Bahai teachings.

It's early morning so I'll read it more. Seems short but have to think of it more.

In the Gospels Jesus is referred to as the ‘lamb that was crucified’ and the ‘paschall’ Lamb. However in Revelation ‘the lamb that was slain’ (not crucified) is described as an ‘arnion’ lamb. Only in Revelation is made mention of a different lamb to the Gospels which we believe is the Bab Who was slain not crucified.

There are many sects in Christianity but Christ encouraged us to see with our own eyes and use our own minds. Truth is not necessarily contained or found in what is popularly held to be the truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Hindu view is that with souls, there is no religion. (no gender either) Those labels only apply to the ego/personality of any one lifetime. So it depends on karma, and the soul's evolution. (age) Reincarnation patterns used to be more 'within the family' but now with global thinking, less so. Older souls will be born into the religions that offer the opportunity for moksha.

So if you’re born again into this world you might be born even into a Muslim family if that will be what will enable you to grow spiritually?

At that time you would denounce reincarnation so where would be Vinayaka the Hindu?