Capitalism and Christianity

[osgart]

the bible is full of passages about giving, and earning a just wage. but if the money is your number one priority and not god, than you are not Christian.

so a Christian practices altruism, and charity, and is taught to be frugal. so capitalism is right in line with them.

at least sincere Christians are like this. obviously not every Christian is a Christian in truth.

 

[Sleeppy]

the bible is full of passages about giving, and earning a just wage. but if the money is your number one priority and not god, than you are not Christian.

so a Christian practices altruism, and charity, and is taught to be frugal. so capitalism is right in line with them.

at least sincere Christians are like this. obviously not every Christian is a Christian in truth.

False.

The command is to treat your neighbor as yourself. Would you rather profit, or incur loss? Win or lose? Eat or starve?

Be honest with yourselves.

 

[Revoltingest]

For Xians who oppose capitalism, what's the most Xian compatible alternative?

 

[Fool]

You just proved your premise was wrong. The definition of capitalism you gave (individual right of ownership), has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that capitalism is by definition "serving self at the expense of others". There is no logical connection between your claims and the real meaning of capitalism. It is perfectly possible to serve others and own personal property.

You also just proved you misused scripture. Nothing about the defintion you gave for capitalism (owning private property) could remotely be construed as becoming someone who "serves money as a master". There is no logical connection to your claims, because it is perfectly possible for someone to own something without choosing to make that thing it's master.

mammon is a reference to any material thing.

money can be anything of value and exchanged for other goods and services

 

[Fool]

Well first of all strawman. Mathew 6:24 is talking about gods or idols. Capitalism in this respect would mean it would have to take precedent over the Christians beliefs. Just by doing this you are no longer Christian. Secondly John 12:6 you are quoting Judas. In context, John 12:3-6

3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Which was Judas being butt hurt and virtue signaling, in attempt to show he was more kind and giving than Jesus. He was not, he just saw and opportunity to have a gotcha moment, just like this thread you started. Very fitting that you chose to use it.

But Yes, you can it so long as God comes first and foremost.

.


yes, money and material things can be an idol; when given more importance than love for one's fellow man. thats what an idol is. anything that replaces human kindness as being more important. when a man starts to pick and choose when they should and shouldn't be selfish, then problems arise because the golden rule isn''t used consistently

love, or god, is not a respecter of persons. it works equally the same way for everyone, everywhere.

does a friend do what rights towards his friends all the time? or does she only do what's right when there is no profit involved? how many friends are you going to keep when you place profit above love?

 

[Rise]

mammon is a reference to any material thing.

money can be anything of value and exchanged for other goods and services

Your definition of mammon is logically irrelevent. It does not prove your original claim that to own possessions makes one a servant of mammon. The scripture never says ownership makes one a slave to what is owned. It is perfectly possible to own something and not be owned by it. Your entire premise fell apart. You are shoving assumptions into the text that the text itself doesn't support.

And a more wholistic understanding of scripture would also demonstrate your premise impossible, as personal ownership of land and goods is affirmed from Able in Genesis (you cant sacrifice an animal you dont own) to the mosaic law (you cant steal unless someone owns something to begin with).

 

[PureX]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

No, not ideologically.

Capitalism is an economic system wherein the capital investor controls the means of production, for the singular purpose of gaining maximum return of the capital invested. Basically, it's excess money being used to acquire even more excess money. And there is no way this can be justified by any honest interpretation of Christian doctrine. The capitalist agenda would have to be seriously amended by socialist ideals to make it compatible with Christian doctrine.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

For Xians who oppose capitalism, what's the most Xian compatible alternative?

Realistically, a balance is probably the best solution. The bigger your "footprint" is in society, the more upkeep you should help fund, but other than that, as long as you're not screwing your customers and employees, it should all be good.

 

[sayak83]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

John 12:6
He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

According to the Bible, no.

 

[PureX]

Realistically, a balance is probably the best solution. The bigger your "footprint" is in society, the more upkeep you should help fund, but other than that, as long as you're not screwing your customers and employees, it should all be good.

It is the expressed admonishment of Christian doctrine not to pile up wealth for oneself, or to use it to exploit others. Yet it is the express purpose of capitalism to pile up as wealth for oneself, and then use it to exploit everyone else to gain more. There is no "balance" to be truck, here, that I can see. We either take what we need, and pass the rest on to others, or we take everything we can get and use it to gain control of more. Are you saying that Christians should only keep some of the wealth they acquire, and use it to gain control of only some more?

 

[Vouthon]

"...By condemning the actions of communist parties, the Church does not support the capitalist regime. It is most necessary that it be realized that in the very essence of capitalism that is to say, in the absolute value that it gives to property without reference to the common good or to the dignity of labor there is a materialism rejected by Christian teaching..."

- U.S. Catholic Bishops, Pastoral Letter (1980) 62.



"...Catholic social doctrine is not a surrogate for capitalism. In fact...the church, since Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum, has always distanced itself from capitalistic ideology, holding it responsible for grave social injustices (cf. Rerum Novarum, 2). In Quadragesimo Anno Pius XI, for his part, used clear and strong words to stigmatize the international imperialism of money (Quadragesimo Anno, 109). This line is also confirmed in the more recent magisterium, and I myself, after the historical failure of communism, did not hesitate to raise serious doubts on the validity of capitalism (Centesimus Annus, 42)..."

- Pope St. John Paul II (What Social Teaching Is and Is Not, in Origins, Vol. 23, No. 15), September 1993



"...But it is unfortunate that on these new conditions of society a system [capitalism] has been constructed which considers profit as the key motive for economic progress, competition as the supreme law of economics, and private ownership of the means of production as an absolute right that has no limits and carries no corresponding social obligation.

This unchecked economic liberalism leads to dictatorship rightly denounced by Pius XI as producing "the international imperialism of money".[26] One cannot condemn such abuses too strongly by solemnly recalling once again that the economy is at the service of man...

Individual initiative alone and the mere free play of competition could never assure successful development. One must avoid the risk of increasing still more the wealth of the rich and the dominion of the strong, whilst leaving the poor in their misery and adding to the servitude of the oppressed..."

- Pope Blessed Paul VI (Populorum Progressio), 1967​

 

[Revoltingest]

Realistically, a balance is probably the best solution. The bigger your "footprint" is in society, the more upkeep you should help fund, but other than that, as long as you're not screwing your customers and employees, it should all be good.

Such a balance could be all capitalism.

 

[Fool]

Your definition of mammon is logically irrelevent. It does not prove your original claim that to own possessions makes one a servant of mammon. The scripture never says ownership makes one a slave to what is owned. It is perfectly possible to own something and not be owned by it. Your entire premise fell apart. You are shoving assumptions into the text that the text itself doesn't support.

And a more wholistic understanding of scripture would also demonstrate your premise impossible, as personal ownership of land and goods is affirmed from Able in Genesis (you cant sacrifice an animal you dont own) to the mosaic law (you cant steal unless someone owns something to begin with).

there isn't a problem with having things for one's needs. its when it's taken to excess. i used the verse that you can't serve love and materialism. jesus said, he who wishes to be great must serve all. we don't get to pick which people we wish to serve and those we wish to abuse for selfish gain.

 

[Fool]

Realistically, a balance is probably the best solution. The bigger your "footprint" is in society, the more upkeep you should help fund, but other than that, as long as you're not screwing your customers and employees, it should all be good.

that was the idea of the talents parable. everyone comes in empty handed and is lent resources based on their capabilities. they can disperse those resources before vacating. hopefully they do so to someone who will manage those resources for a greater purpose that isn't based on self serving motives but community in general.

 

[oldbadger]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

Yep. The thing is, there are so many differing types of Christians, and I do notice that many christian websites do seem to attract GOP, Republican, White Supremacist, Racist, Gun-Hugging, Rightist folks who claim to be Christians.

So....... Yep, christians can be, and are, capitalists.

 

[SinSaber]

Well you can't outright say capitolisim is completely evil. It was the first system to give people of lower standards a means a moving up in life.

Socialist feudalism didn't do that.

 

[SinSaber]

This is Christian fact--

Democratic socialism.

Matthew 19:21-27

Jesus said to him, `If thou dost will to be perfect, go away, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me.'

And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions; and Jesus said to his disciples, `Verily I say to you, that hardly shall a rich man enter into the reign of the heavens; and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'

And his disciples having heard, were amazed exceedingly, saying, `Who, then, is able to be saved?'

And Jesus having earnestly beheld, said to them, `With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'

Then Peter answering said to him, `Lo, we did leave all, and follow thee, what then shall we have?'

Yeah none of that is requirement. It's a suggestion for wanting to be Christ likes. But when we get like that we start to feel superiority complexes arise. It's called middle ground

So who is going to be the one we trust to administer daily provisions equally?

Yeah cause Christ did say there was none good among them

Disownership of one's own life, is a prerequisite to Christianity. Somehow, Christians feel entitled to property. Jesus taught that God is the only owner of anything, i.e. that God is God. The cornerstone of human evolution is empathy.

Those were for acolytes. Common people were just taught to do better.

 

[Fool]

Well you can't outright say capitolisim is completely evil. It was the first system to give people of lower standards a means a moving up in life.

Socialist feudalism didn't do that.

its how a thing is enacted that makes it good/evil.

 

[SinSaber]

its how a thing is enacted that makes it good/evil.

Exactly

 

[Sleeppy]

Yeah none of that is requirement. It's a suggestion for wanting to be Christ likes. But when we get like that we start to feel superiority complexes arise. It's called middle ground



Yeah cause Christ did say there was none good among them



Those were for acolytes. Common people were just taught to do better.

Pursuit of perfection is a requirement for Christians:

Matthew 5:46-48

For, if ye may love those loving you, what reward have ye? do not also the tax-gatherers the same?

And if ye may salute your brethren only, what do ye abundant? do not also the tax-gatherers so?

Ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who [is] in the heavens is perfect.