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spirit of antichrist is in the world today

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Not that it matters, but 1950. So, all error is not of the devil now, did your "real teachers" get new light on that? Funny, I couldn't find a correction on that teaching, in all the wt literature from 1950 thru 2015, was there a memo sent to the elders or something? Or does that mean, only the errors of Christendom are of the devil, and not your "real teachers"?



You're correct, everyone will see Him coming! But, according to your "real teachers" that's not true,

*** w07 3/15 p. 5 What Christ’s Coming Will Accomplish ***
With regard to Christ’s coming, the Bible says: “Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” (Revelation 1:7) People will not see him with their literal eyes. Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—1 Timothy 6:16.

Your religion is confusing to say the least, isn't it kjw47? You say, every eye will see Him come, but your "real teachers", who teach "every utterance of God" says they won't literally see Him. Are you going to change your answer now?


We all shall see soon.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Tell us the difference between receiving all authority and receiving a crown. Mind you, it is a spiritual creature we are talking about!



God is king of eternity, Jesus had to be appointed as king, but for 1000 years, then he has to hand the kingdom back to his God and father and subject himself( 1Cor 15:24-28)( as all created beings do)
Yes he had authority but was not king yet.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
How does this fit in with your "anointed ones taking the lead" that were the two witnesses?

Revelation 11:12-13 (ESV Strong's) Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

It must really be awesome and a great honor to have found the "only true religion", with the only teachers that God talks to, with the only teachers chosen personally by Jesus Himself, having the only teachers that God AND Jesus completely trust, having the only teachers who are prophesied about in the Bible, I see now how you can be so arrogant and proud!


you cannot even understand milk. that is a deep subject--learn milk first, then delve into deeper matters.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
First of all, how is it even possible that anyone here on Earth could possibly know that "the firstfruits resurrected"? Doesn't that sorta even seem to fail the smell taste?

Also, about the "144,000", which will show you why not understanding early Judaism and Jewish culture can lead to problems in translation.

During Jesus' time, there was no numerical way of directly writing "144,000" because the highest number was 1000, so in order to write "144,000" one had to do a combination of numbers. The combination that "works" is "twelve twelves thousands", which seems awkward but there were no word for "times" words then. Today we would write it "12 X 12 X 1000 = 144,000".

The number "12" is one of the numbers that also had a symbolic meaning, which was "completion" and was considered a "good number" because of that. Check and see how many different times "12" shows up in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures as evidence of this.

The number "1000", since it was the highest number that one could write directly, also stood for "great numbers". Nowadays, at least here in the States, we often use a "million", such as "Look outside, there must be a million birds out there!". No one expects that this number would be an actual counting of the birds, however.

So, what does this "twelve twelves thousands" probably mean symbolically therefore? The best guess is "completion upon completion and in great numbers", which makes much more sense than assuming that the 144,000 is an actual count after almost 2000 years since Jesus lived.


144,00 is literal--the great multitude is not promised heaven anywhere.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
@kjw47 I understand that the Bible makes it very clear that when even a holy one of God died he did not go to Heaven.
The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses teaches that even in the resurrection anyone who had died before Jesus Christ did will not be granted entry to Heaven.
I am asking you to prove the teaching that only people who died after Jesus did will ever go to Heaven.


Jesus speaking of the dead John the Baptizer said--the least one in heaven is greater than him. Jesus said John the Baptizer--no man ever born of woman was greater than he( not including Jesus)
Fact--God created mortals to live on the earth forever. One just needs to know God and his will.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
No, we won't.

You're not the first, and you won't be the last, to make that comment as though you knew for certain.


Many failed to realize that the two horned beast of Rev 13 had to be in place--Rev 13 has been going on for many years now. I truly believe Rev 16 has begun now. This world will not like the conclusion it brings.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
The challenge for you @kjw47, if you should choose to accept it, is to find out how the first governing body came to the conclusion that nobody who died before Jesus did, goes to Heaven and why every day since then they stay with that conclusion.

I understand that before Jesus had done what he did there was no real prospect for any life after death. It is what I believe the Bible teaches.

I am certain that the Bible does not teach that some people can never expect his or her resurrection to be to Heaven.

Since the Bible does not teach it, why does the governing body teach it?


Jesus real teachers get Holy spirit guiding them into all truth--at the proper time.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Yes he had authority but was not king yet.

Really, He wasn't King until 1914?

Luke 19:37-38 (ESV Strong's) the whole multitude of his disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, 38 saying, “Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!

John 1:49 (ESV Strong's) 49 Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

John 12:13 (ESV Strong's) 13 So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!”

John 12:15 (ESV Strong's) 15 “Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt!”

1 Timothy 6:14-16 (ESV Strong's) 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Jesus real teachers get Holy spirit guiding them into all truth--at the proper time.

But until then, they get to teach from their own reason and logic, right? Isn't that why they have to make so many "corrections"? Why don't they just wait for the truth to come?
 

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
Many failed to realize that the two horned beast of Rev 13 had to be in place--Rev 13 has been going on for many years now. I truly believe Rev 16 has begun now. This world will not like the conclusion it brings.

Who do you personally perceive to be the two horned beast? If you say the beast has to be in place for Rev 16 to be starting, that means the beast must be in place, correct? Who is that beast?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
144,00 is literal--the great multitude is not promised heaven anywhere.
You cannot possibly verify that.

With any kind of serious Bible study, one needs to look at all options, only discounting those that are defied by other scriptures or historical events. In this case, I can guarantee you that there is no possible way you can discount 144,000 being symbolic, and every theologian that I have read feels that it is most likely that.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
All errors are not of the devil. What year was that said?

Are you saying your "real teachers" are wrong kjw47?

*** w50 11/15 p. 462 Fraudulent Religious Relics ***
All error and lies are of the Devil and are certainly a great reproach and dishonor to God. (John 8:44; Rom. 1:25) Consequently, Jehovah is against all such pious frauds that teach lies in His name and He will clean them out at Armageddon.

Meaning no matter what you think you do or have love for God, it counts for 0 if you partake off the table of demons.

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919

Your "real teachers" claim that "all error" is of the devil, the above quotes are errors, so which table does that put your "real teachers" eating from?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus speaking of the dead John the Baptizer said--the least one in heaven is greater than him. Jesus said John the Baptizer--no man ever born of woman was greater than he( not including Jesus)
Fact--God created mortals to live on the earth forever. One just needs to know God and his will.
But nobody knows if what was written by The Holy Spirit originally said, "the least one IS AS GREAT AS" the greatest person born of a woman. Isn't it true that there is no one greater or lesser in the Kingdom of Heaven?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My guess is that making Jesus unhappy is just about the most extreme foolish thing a person might do.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Really, He wasn't King until 1914?

Luke 19:37-38 (ESV Strong's) the whole multitude of his disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, 38 saying, “Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!

John 1:49 (ESV Strong's) 49 Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

John 12:13 (ESV Strong's) 13 So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!”

John 12:15 (ESV Strong's) 15 “Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt!”

1 Timothy 6:14-16 (ESV Strong's) 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.


The bible is clear--Jesus is appointed for 1000 years as king. Gods kingdom would be ruling the earth if he were king back then. I see him as king, just as they did. But he wasn't actually king until he received his crown at Rev 6
 
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