How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

Of course we've been through all this before. Most people are grey (agnostic, undecided) enough to say they agree with most of that their individual faith says. Fundamentalists go 100% with their faith, no wiggle room. I agree with about 60% of general Hinduism, and about 95% of my individual school's beliefs.

But Baha'i' somehow say they agree to 100% of all faiths. Gotta be a huge accomplishment to be Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Buddhist, all simultaneously with no conflicts whatsoever. But t hat's the beauty of an infallible prophet.

Baha'is believe in 100% of .001% of the other religions. That .001% of all religions totally agree.

Maybe even a higher percentage. If they all mention "love" and "peace", then there you go. They are all saying the same thing. We all need love and peace. On how to get there, though, has been misinterpreted by the followers. One says meditate your way there... no. Another says peace and love comes through Jesus? Baloney. Where did people come up with these terrible misinterpretations?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Christians in the Lord’s Prayer are praying for the Kingdom of God to come on earth so the coming they are waiting for is one which will bring a new system which is from God not man made.

It says something about delivering us from evil and keeping us from temptation. Who is the evil one and tempter in Christianity? Could it be Satan?

You don't have a spirit being Satan. So everything you quote from the NT is cherry picked and made to fit your beliefs with no regard for the context.

Besides, has any system brought be any of the other manifestations ever worked? No. And why not? People. Even you say people have messed up the true and original teachings of all the other religions. We still have people in the equation. Of course you think the Baha'i institutions are incorruptible. But many people have already had run-ins with the Baha'i institutions.

Some have complained about certain people carrying out their own agenda and abusing their position of authority. Their stories are on the Web. Are they all wrong? Or, is there some problems in the way the Baha'i institutions are being used? I doubt if you'll say anything negative, but, really, in your own community, has there never been a little bit of corrupt behavior of those in a Spiritual Assembly? They are only people... Fallible people. The same kind of fallible people that you say corrupted the other religions.

 

[CG Didymus]

Whenever you, Adrian, and Didymus discuss this stuff, I just feel so grateful I never was part of it. It feels draining, even from my distance.

Draining? Yes, I've been taking several days off before I come back and see what has been said. It is an exercise in futility in so many ways, because they always have an answer that satisfies them. They can point to a verse the says, "The Glory of God" and say "you see! Baha'u'llah is stated right there in the Bible". The verse might say Jesus and they say "Well Jesus was speaking symbolically". So literal, figurative, totally twisted and taken out of context, it doesn't matter... there is always a way to make the Bible say whatever they want it to say.

But, like you, I'm not going to allow them to say whatever they want without questioning them and their intent.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So your Mom reads the NT and it tells her that salvation is only in Jesus. You know the story. The Law cannot save a person... That Satan the devil is trying to confuse and trick them... that all people are hopelessly lost in their sins... But, God provided the perfect sacrifice, Jesus. And He is coming back. The dead in Christ will rise first, then those, still living, will be caught up to might Jesus in the air...

What is all this? This is all from the NT. Jesus didn't set any thing right, if the Baha'is are right. He made things more confusing. The Law gets abolished and people are taught they are hopeless sinners? No, the NT is completely wrong and misleading... if the Baha'is are correct.

It is not as complicated as we make it out to be, that is why learning can become a barrier. It is the Spirit that is talking to us, thus the Word forms a picture for us in Spirit.

Good and evil in the Holy Books talks about the choices we as men make individually and collectively.

As for the dead in Christ who will rise first that is a picture of Christianity today. Many call upon Christ, but do not see what they ask for has been given. All the while others find what they ask for and embrace the Oneness of God, the promise of Christ each and every day in growing numbers with a sincerity that will not be broken.

What is all this? Our God given free will to know God and Love God without being forced to do so.

The Mess we are in, is punishment of our own making, for making such an easy task of seeing each other human as an equal and having the humility to work for the good of all, as the family as man.

The first thing is to realise we have a problem, then we must want to fix the issues and then the effort begins.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Anglicans, Methodists, and Catholics were all very successful.

New Zealand's religious history after the arrival of Europeans saw substantial missionary activity, with Māori generally converting to Christianity voluntarily (compare forced conversions elsewhere in the world)

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

What do you believe is true about any of those Christian sects? Do they contradict each other? If they do, then some Maori have accepted beliefs that other Maori's don't believe in. So they voluntarily gave themselves over to Christian sects that don't really have the truth for today? Or, for any day?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where did people come up with these terrible misinterpretations?

That is what each person must ask ones own self.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Actually its all part of the book of revelations. Its called Armageddon.

In the spirit of listening to our Christian brothers and sisters here is some Christian commentary on the third woe...

What are the three woes of Revelation?

"The number 7 is significant in Revelation, and the three woes will come toward the end of the seven-year tribulation period right before the second coming of Christ."​

So what is the Baha'i interpretation of the "7 year" tribulation period? The 3 Woes comes toward the end of it and right before the second coming? But the 3 Woes are supposed to be Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah? So how can the 3 Woes, all kinds of bad things, and, since the Woes come right before the second coming, also be the manifestations?

 

[siti]

The most common criticism I have heard from poeple who know next to nothing about the Baha'i Faith is that it is a hybrid religion. I doubt if any serious religious scholar would claim that.

Do you? As a matter of interest, how many have you asked?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you? As a matter of interest, how many have you asked?

Quite a few have written and acknowledged this.

It is now well known that the Baha'i Faith is an Independant World Religion, amongst those that have looked into this with an unbiased mind.

May you always be happy, Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

But, like you, I'm not going to allow them to say whatever they want without questioning them and their intent.

Yup, that's what I'm here for. That and to study human behavior. I've rarely encountered this mindset in my life, and been able to carry on a conversation for long. I'm curious as to how it gets broken, mostly. The 'I'm right and you're wrong' seems to be as hardwired as something like hair colour. Still, there are those who do get out.

 

[siti]

Quite a few have written and acknowledged this.

It is now well known that the Baha'i Faith is an Independant World Religion, amongst those that have looked into this with an unbiased mind.

May you always be happy, Regards Tony

OK - so taking your post and Adrian's earlier one my remarks are taken as coming from someone "who knows next to nothing about the Baha'i faith" and is probably biased. And yet neither of you have seen fit to cite a single actual reference to (non-Baha'i) scholarly writings that interpret the Baha'i faith as being original and authentic as opposed to being a "hybrid" or "fusion" religion arising (principally) from Islamic reform in the 19th century and comprising of the re-interpretation of Qur'anic, Biblical and a smattering of other various religious ideas from various faiths.

Anyway, here's a quote from a Baha'i scholar, Moojan Momen:

Bahá'ís believe that the Bahá'í Faith does not come not to supplant Hinduism. Rather its aims are:

- to take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution;

- to resolve some of the differences that we have noted above;

- and above all to unite Hinduism.

In the next few chapters we will examine the philosophy and the ethical Dharma in both Hindu and Bahá'í belief. This will enable us to see that there is no conflict between the two. Indeed we will see that the Bahá'í position resolves some of the disagreements in philosophy that exist between the various schools within Hinduism.

In the later chapters, we will describe the social teachings of the Bahá'í Dharma. We will examine the Bahá'í claim that this will take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution. Bahá'ís believe that they will bring this about by reforming those elements that are no longer suited to the social conditions of today and by renewing the spiritual force that is inherent in all mankind.​

Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

Explain to me how this is not introducing an attempt at reinterpreting Hinduism with the goal of forming a "hybrid"?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

OK - so taking your post and Adrian's earlier one my remarks are taken as coming from someone "who knows next to nothing about the Baha'i faith" and is probably biased. And yet neither of you have seen fit to cite a single actual reference to (non-Baha'i) scholarly writings that interpret the Baha'i faith as being original and authentic as opposed to being a "hybrid" or "fusion" religion arising (principally) from Islamic reform in the 19th century and comprising of the re-interpretation of Qur'anic, Biblical and a smattering of other various religious ideas from various faiths.

Anyway, here's a quote from a Baha'i scholar, Moojan Momen:

Bahá'ís believe that the Bahá'í Faith does not come not to supplant Hinduism. Rather its aims are:

- to take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution;

- to resolve some of the differences that we have noted above;

- and above all to unite Hinduism.

In the next few chapters we will examine the philosophy and the ethical Dharma in both Hindu and Bahá'í belief. This will enable us to see that there is no conflict between the two. Indeed we will see that the Bahá'í position resolves some of the disagreements in philosophy that exist between the various schools within Hinduism.

In the later chapters, we will describe the social teachings of the Bahá'í Dharma. We will examine the Bahá'í claim that this will take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution. Bahá'ís believe that they will bring this about by reforming those elements that are no longer suited to the social conditions of today and by renewing the spiritual force that is inherent in all mankind.​

Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

Explain to me how this is not introducing an attempt at reinterpreting Hinduism with the goal of forming a "hybrid"?

Baha'u'llah says; "...This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures."

Thus there is no God Given difference in the Changless aspect of Gods Word. This is what Moojan Momen is exploring in the first part of the quote you have offered.

The differences found are in the Laws and ordnances given for the age the Message is given, this is the aspect that does change, this aspect is being addressed in the 2nd part of the quote you offered.

Thus is just a different frame of reference required, expanding on what we already know by seeing the white it in all the colours of the rainbow.

Regards Tony

 

[siti]

Thus is just a different frame of reference required, expanding on what we already know by seeing the white it in all the colours of the rainbow.

Or perhaps, taking the flavorsome aspects of different cuisines and producing a hybrid that celebrates them all? Don't you think? However you take it, your point makes mine for me - as usual in these discussions. What I asked for were scholarly references that prove my "ignorant" and "biased" thesis, namely "that the Baha'i faith is a hybrid of other religious ideas", to be wrong.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Do you? As a matter of interest, how many have you asked?

What would be most useful for you to provide support for your claim that the Baha'i Faith is a hybrid religion is to provide references from reputable religious studies scholars that support your claim.

I live in a city with a world class University and theology college. I recently took an introductory course on NT Greek and have a friends doing religious studies papers. I've been living here for 30+ years and have had involvement with both departments over the years.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Explain to me how this is not introducing an attempt at reinterpreting Hinduism with the goal of forming a "hybrid"?

Christianity builds on Judaism. Christ brought new teachings from God that builds on the OT. Christianity reinterprets the OT to include Jesus. That's doesn't make it a hybrid religion. If it does, then we can say many other religions are hybrid religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

OK - so taking your post and Adrian's earlier one my remarks are taken as coming from someone "who knows next to nothing about the Baha'i faith" and is probably biased. And yet neither of you have seen fit to cite a single actual reference to (non-Baha'i) scholarly writings that interpret the Baha'i faith as being original and authentic as opposed to being a "hybrid" or "fusion" religion arising (principally) from Islamic reform in the 19th century and comprising of the re-interpretation of Qur'anic, Biblical and a smattering of other various religious ideas from various faiths.

Anyway, here's a quote from a Baha'i scholar, Moojan Momen:

Bahá'ís believe that the Bahá'í Faith does not come not to supplant Hinduism. Rather its aims are:

- to take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution;

- to resolve some of the differences that we have noted above;

- and above all to unite Hinduism.

In the next few chapters we will examine the philosophy and the ethical Dharma in both Hindu and Bahá'í belief. This will enable us to see that there is no conflict between the two. Indeed we will see that the Bahá'í position resolves some of the disagreements in philosophy that exist between the various schools within Hinduism.

In the later chapters, we will describe the social teachings of the Bahá'í Dharma. We will examine the Bahá'í claim that this will take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution. Bahá'ís believe that they will bring this about by reforming those elements that are no longer suited to the social conditions of today and by renewing the spiritual force that is inherent in all mankind.​

Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

Explain to me how this is not introducing an attempt at reinterpreting Hinduism with the goal of forming a "hybrid"?

You have discovered what I discovered a few hundred pages back. The one that I went the most aghast on was ... 'here to unite Hindus'. It makes no sense at all, because we're already united. Perhaps not in the same way. We respect the diversity under the umbrella.

 

[Vinayaka]

Or perhaps, taking the flavorsome aspects of different cuisines and producing a hybrid that celebrates them all? Don't you think? However you take it, your point makes mine for me - as usual in these discussions. What I asked for were scholarly references that prove my "ignorant" and "biased" thesis, namely "that the Baha'i faith is a hybrid of other religious ideas", to be wrong.

But these types of questions are considered 'divisive'. It's unlikely you'll be getting answers to questions they have no answers for. Might as well get used to it. I am.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OK - so taking your post and Adrian's earlier one my remarks are taken as coming from someone "who knows next to nothing about the Baha'i faith" and is probably biased. And yet neither of you have seen fit to cite a single actual reference to (non-Baha'i) scholarly writings that interpret the Baha'i faith as being original and authentic as opposed to being a "hybrid" or "fusion" religion arising (principally) from Islamic reform in the 19th century and comprising of the re-interpretation of Qur'anic, Biblical and a smattering of other various religious ideas from various faiths.

Anyway, here's a quote from a Baha'i scholar, Moojan Momen:

Bahá'ís believe that the Bahá'í Faith does not come not to supplant Hinduism. Rather its aims are:

- to take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution;

- to resolve some of the differences that we have noted above;

- and above all to unite Hinduism.

In the next few chapters we will examine the philosophy and the ethical Dharma in both Hindu and Bahá'í belief. This will enable us to see that there is no conflict between the two. Indeed we will see that the Bahá'í position resolves some of the disagreements in philosophy that exist between the various schools within Hinduism.

In the later chapters, we will describe the social teachings of the Bahá'í Dharma. We will examine the Bahá'í claim that this will take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution. Bahá'ís believe that they will bring this about by reforming those elements that are no longer suited to the social conditions of today and by renewing the spiritual force that is inherent in all mankind.​

Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

Explain to me how this is not introducing an attempt at reinterpreting Hinduism with the goal of forming a "hybrid"?

Additionally to what others pointed out, the Bahai Faith has its own complete set of Laws in the Most Holy Book, revealed by Bahaullah. The Book has more than 200 Laws, every single one of them, is different from Islamic Sharia, Jewish Laws, or Christian laws.

 

[Vinayaka]

Or perhaps, taking the flavorsome aspects of different cuisines and producing a hybrid that celebrates them all? Don't you think? However you take it, your point makes mine for me - as usual in these discussions. What I asked for were scholarly references that prove my "ignorant" and "biased" thesis, namely "that the Baha'i faith is a hybrid of other religious ideas", to be wrong.

It's hard to find non Baha'i' scholarly papers, but here's one from a Christian scholar.

Thanks for bringing a new voice to the discussion. I'll have to reflect on this hybrid idea. Right now it makes total sense to me, as they do claim to believe in the 'truthful parts of all religions, although it remains vague.

https://www.jashow.org/articles/world-religions/bahai-faith/a-critical-look-at-the-baha’i-faith-–-part-1/

 

[Vinayaka]

Additionally to what others pointed out, the Bahai Faith has its own complete set of Laws in the Most Holy Book, revealed by Bahaullah. The Book has more than 200 Laws, every single one of them, is different from Islamic Sharia, Jewish Laws, or Christian laws.

Can you link to this, so we can take a look for ourselves?