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What would Jesus do, a question for Republican's

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Actually yes they do. Because I did not sign up for Obamacare because I already had insurance I pay for. I still got charged $250 tax for not signing up for Obamacare. Obamacare is a racketeering scheme.

I want poverty stricken people to break the chains of poverty so that they don't need my help. That is the Christian thing to do. Not establish a welfare state, so that you can keep your thumb on people as you wish to do.
If you are already paying for insurance, there is no way that you got charged for not signing up for Obamacare. The insurance company is supposed to give you a form that you give to the IRS, so you won't get charged.

You want to be a Christian by 'wanting people to be poverty free', but you don't want the government to help them - very unChristian. I am not sure what 'thumb' is on some person who has a serious illness and no money to pay for treatment. You basically don't think a poor person deserves something - treatment or even food, when he has not 'earned' it and paid for it. I think you will have a lot of explaining to do when the Christ returns - I hope he buys your argument.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
If you are already paying for insurance, there is no way that you got charged for not signing up for Obamacare. The insurance company is supposed to give you a form that you give to the IRS, so you won't get charged.

You want to be a Christian by 'wanting people to be poverty free', but you don't want the government to help them - very unChristian. I am not sure what 'thumb' is on some person who has a serious illness and no money to pay for treatment. You basically don't think a poor person deserves something - treatment or even food, when he has not 'earned' it and paid for it. I think you will have a lot of explaining to do when the Christ returns - I hope he buys your argument.

Luckily they refunded it after I raised hell about it. But it took a year to get my money back.

No, your misrepresenting what I have said. The problem is poverty. If we help them out of poverty they no longer need help, with medical cost. They will be able to afford insurance like everyone else. It is a long term solution.

How you translate that into how I don't care or how I think they don't deserve it already tells me how disingenuous you are being. Because I am presenting a solution that you are not only flat out ignoring, but are then misrepresenting as malice. And you think I am the uncaring one? Give me a break.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Luckily they refunded it after I raised hell about it. But it took a year to get my money back.

No, your misrepresenting what I have said. The problem is poverty. If we help them out of poverty they no longer need help, with medical cost. They will be able to afford insurance like everyone else. It is a long term solution.

How you translate that into how I don't care or how I think they don't deserve it already tells me how disingenuous you are being. Because I am presenting a solution that you are not only flat out ignoring, but are then misrepresenting as malice. And you think I am the uncaring one? Give me a break.
Of course if you get them out of poverty, they will be able to afford healthcare. But until they do that, they still need treatment and food. Which is why the government needs to help them until they get out of poverty. The time from being poor and then able afford healthcare, is not instantaneous - it could be years. The republican position is that the poor should do without food and healthcare in that time period, otherwise they will get used to getting something for nothing. Nobody said to stop looking for a longterm solution. But until it is solved, republicans want the poor person to starve or go without healthcare.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Of course if you get them out of poverty, they will be able to afford healthcare. But until they do that, they still need treatment and food. Which is why the government needs to help them until they get out of poverty. The time from being poor and then able afford healthcare, is not instantaneous - it could be years. The republican position is that the poor should do without food and healthcare in that time period, otherwise they will get used to getting something for nothing. Nobody said to stop looking for a longterm solution. But until it is solved, republicans want the poor person to starve or go without healthcare.

We have programs to help already. Thats been established. We need to focus on programs to move forward and break poverty long term. This is what is lacking.
 
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soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
We have programs to help already. Thats been established. We need to focus on programs to move forward and break poverty long term. This is what is lacking.
Healthcare is so expensive that there almost 30 million who can not afford it without some subsidy. That is why Obamacare was created. These are the people republicans don't want to give Obamacare subsidies to (they also want drop some people who are getting Medicaid).

BTW, the children's health insurance program expires end of this month, Ryan has not even started the process to renew it. Probably thinks they should be able manage OK, until they start earning enough to able to buy their own.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Healthcare is so expensive that there almost 30 million who can not afford it without some subsidy. That is why Obamacare was created. These are the people republicans don't want to give Obamacare subsidies to (they also want drop some people who are getting Medicaid).

BTW, the children's health insurance program expires end of this month, Ryan has not even started the process to renew it. Probably thinks they should be able manage OK, until they start earning enough to able to buy their own.

A friend of mine had all 4 of his children on Obamacare. He makes more per than I but he cannot afford healthcarw for all 4 and all of his other bills as well (single dad, the mom is a nightmare dont ask). Out of nowhere about a year ago they just pulled the coverage on all 4. Now he cant get them reinsured because be is refused and he cant afford regular insurance. I just have not seen any positives come from Obamacare.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Nope, Money talks and bulls**t walks here. If you got the cash you can have the procedure done no matter how experimental. Plus we have non-profits like St.Jude hospital for children that don't charge, who knows maybe they could have helped Charlie. Its a slim chance I admit, but I want the freedom to make that decision on my terms, not some faceless govt organization.
Ahh so if only you are rich enough you can have that freedom? Bugger the child of the poor parents? Which happened in this scenario. They did not have the money, had to fundraise, if I'm not mistaken. Which delayed the process to the point where neither country would perform the procedure because the child was too far gone. You mean freedoms like those?

It's all too easy to pontificate over the plight of those on the poverty line or even just average workers when you have the money to afford a comfortable lifestyle and indeed all the freedoms money can apparently buy.
Don't see how that is helpful for those who can't afford to do so though.
Neither system is perfect. Both extremely flawed, but something like the NDS would eventually make an experimental treatment free if proven effective. I don't know about the US.
 
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soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
A friend of mine had all 4 of his children on Obamacare. He makes more per than I but he cannot afford healthcarw for all 4 and all of his other bills as well (single dad, the mom is a nightmare dont ask). Out of nowhere about a year ago they just pulled the coverage on all 4. Now he cant get them reinsured because be is refused and he cant afford regular insurance. I just have not seen any positives come from Obamacare.
Your friend's story sounds like Obamacare income limit for subsidies needs to be increased, so that he and his kids can get coverage. Instead you want to take away coverage from even those with less income than him, who are getting the help. Actually I am sure his kids can get coverage under CHIPS (if congress renews the program).

What you are saying is that since you don't like Obamacare, you want to throw 30 million people who benefit from it, off their coverage. Which basically goes back to what I was saying, you don't want to help poor people get healthcare. You don't think it is yours or the government's job to help people who can not afford it. Like I said, you will have to explain your reasoning to the Christ when he returns - hope he buys your explanation.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Jesus never supported an institutional health care system, that would have been the realm of the money changers.
Why? Do we expect the bankers to do the surgeries? I only know I would much rather trust a Roman doctor than a Jewish faith healer.

Jesus believed in helping people by teaching them to fish
He filled their nets with miracle fish. How does that teach them how to fish? They were fishermen long before Jesus showed up. Do you think they just sat around in the desert casting their nets?

Social Justice demands that we give people a fish.
Yes, because they are starving NOW. Teach them to fish when they're FULL.

Social justice is just a modern form of slavery.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

He was having his feet washed, so you think he should refuse the woman's generosity.
Dude can't wash his own feet?

Jesus didn't believe in handouts.
Every single miracle is a handout.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
But not at the RNC. You'll get lots of slammed doors there.

Yet Jesus traveled around handing out his services, he never got paid did he??
Not technically, but he also never worked anywhere and just bummed around Galilee living off everyone else's dime.

He always let people make their own decisions, even while they crucified him.
They were supposed to. It was God's plan all along.

Jesus did not give money to the poor. He did not work a job and give all of his money to them.
He didn't have a job. He shouldn't lecture the employed about what to do with money.

Its not about owing anyone anything. It's about doing the right thing. And that is to care for our sick regardless of how much money they have. We have the right to a free education here. Health care is just as important. I would much rather see my tax dollars going toward a worthy cause such as this than many of the other things it goes to.
Amen!

I imagine a universal health care system for all in the USA would be a similar story.
I seriously don't know why we just don't expand Medicare. It has to be cheaper than what we have now.

You see it as not compassionate because we refuse to hand over loads of cash to fix the problem short term. Which it would. We are thinking long term success here, where hopefully the majority of people are standing on their own 2 feet and does not need help.
Republicans also don't want to invest in education (sex or otherwise), which is why we can't have nice things.

Morgan Freeman agrees here as he calls bulls**t on Don Lemon for saying that black folk are not able to pull themself up by their bootstraps.
Not everyone becomes discovered and joins Hollywood either. There are tons of working poor who use up way more elbow grease than any CEO.

If the government pays for all healthcare they also control your health.
I'm a female. They ALREADY want to control my health and I am not even on Medicare yet.

If we can figure out a way to do it without giving up the freedom, sure, but thats just not possible becauae currently we cant afford it.
"If we can figure out a way to do it so I'm not personally inconvenienced, then sure."

Because I did not sign up for Obamacare because I already had insurance I pay for. I still got charged $250 tax for not signing up for Obamacare.
Your tax preparer screwed you. I don't have Obamacare and I didn't have to pay any penalty. They want you to have insurance. They really don't care how you get it.

I want poverty stricken people to break the chains of poverty so that they don't need my help.
I'm sure that person making 7 bucks an hour can just sign up for Harvard and make themselves "better".

Out of nowhere about a year ago they just pulled the coverage on all 4. Now he cant get them reinsured because be is refused and he cant afford regular insurance. I just have not seen any positives come from Obamacare.
So he should find an affordable lawyer and give all the relevant information. There are "hardship" clauses.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
He filled their nets with miracle fish. How does that teach them how to fish? They were fishermen long before Jesus showed up. Do you think they just sat around in the desert casting their nets?

Why is metaphors, similies, and hyperbole is lost on you?

Yes, because they are starving NOW. Teach them to fish when they're FULL.

It does not work that way. You hand them a fish and you have lost their attention. Teach them while they are hungry and they pay real close attention.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Laughing is better tham crying I suppose. The truth hurts.

Every single miracle is a handout.

Nope, it is a handup, or at least it is meant to be.

But not at the RNC. You'll get lots of slammed doors there.

Probably, am I supposed to be burned by that? Considering I am not Republican.

They were supposed to. It was God's plan all along.

They still had free will. And they used it.

Republicans also don't want to invest in education (sex or otherwise), which is why we can't have nice things.

If anyone is blissfully unaware the repercussions of unprotected sex in this day and age. What excuse do they have?

Not everyone becomes discovered and joins Hollywood either. There are tons of working poor who use up way more elbow grease than any CEO.

I know and I am one of them. I clawed my way out of poverty, crime, and violence. So can anybody else.

I'm a female. They ALREADY want to control my health and I am not even on Medicare yet

Well maybe thats your sign. If you think they are way too intrusive just wait!

Your tax preparer screwed you. I don't have Obamacare and I didn't have to pay any penalty. They want you to have insurance. They really don't care how you get it.

Nope, Obama and the IRS tried to screw me over. Its rectified now though. :D

I'm sure that person making 7 bucks an hour can just sign up for Harvard and make themselves

So heavy handed. Why is it gotta be Ivy league school? Programs to make tech or trade school more affordable is realistic. Not everyone can be a lawyer ya know!

So he should find an affordable lawyer and give all the relevant information. There are "hardship" clauses.

He can't afford a lawyer. He has 4 kids to support alone! He barely gets by as it is.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
So we've seen how inhumane Republican's would treat the problems but the question was What Would Jesus Do?? not What would Republicans do!!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So do you completely ignore the Social Justice message of Jesus, and would rather the poor suffer and die in poverty with no health care, that's what the message of the right wing is today, the most un Christian values party in history.. Republicans today, especially the Tea party, are no more Christian that the Stalinists in the USSR, I suggest you focus your thoughts on how Jesus treated the poor, disabled and sick and contrast that with the Republican party, which cares way more about unborn infants than living people.

I appreciate your desire to help the poor. The NT contains certain declarations:

1. When helping the poor, it's Christians first!

2. People who don't work should not receive certain (all!) handouts!

3. People who do not provide for their own families are worse than unbelievers!

:)
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Well its pretty obvious from the bible that he was well to the left of the Pharisees and Sadducees, can you deny that. Oh yeah I'm sure you will!!
Jesus was a Democrat!? I had no idea that he advocated abortion and homosexual marriage.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Of course if you get them out of poverty, they will be able to afford healthcare. But until they do that, they still need treatment and food. Which is why the government needs to help them until they get out of poverty.
I don't mind a temporary handout for someone's changed circumstances. However, the Democrats want the handouts to be permanent. They believe that certain peoples are unable to ever provide for themselves. And they believe that even people that already support themselves should become dependent on the government, as they seek to sign up new people for handouts. The welfare rolls expanded big time under Obama.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
I don't mind a temporary handout for someone's changed circumstances. However, the Democrats want the handouts to be permanent. They believe that certain peoples are unable to ever provide for themselves. And they believe that even people that already support themselves should become dependent on the government, as they seek to sign up new people for handouts. The welfare rolls expanded big time under Obama.
The subsidies are not permanent for any person. Once your income goes above a certain level the subsidies stop. The programs needs to be permanent, because there will always be new people to fall into poverty even if some manage to get out. You argument is that the poor are lazy and will remain poor as long as they get free healthcare. I don't think healthcare is some kind of luxury that people 'enjoy' having.

The welfare rolls expanded under Obama because of the Great Recession that started under Bush.

Basically you don't think it is your job or the government's job to help the poor with food or healthcare which you consider as 'handouts'. Maybe when the Christ returns he will agree with you and reward you for being so thoughtful in making sure people don't become dependent.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I appreciate your desire to help the poor. The NT contains certain declarations:

1. When helping the poor, it's Christians first!

2. People who don't work should not receive certain (all!) handouts!

3. People who do not provide for their own families are worse than unbelievers!

:)

Those are not quotes from the bIble, how far will you go to try to prove Jesus was a bigot.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Because it could come at the cost of freedom. If the government pays for all healthcare they also control your health. They decide who lives or dies. Case in point, and I warn you before hand this is heartbreaking. Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia.

This is where we do not want to go.

I agree that the Charlie Gard case was terrible and heartbreaking. No parent should have that choice taken from them. But, How many people do you suppose die in this country due to not going to the doctor because they cant afford it?
 
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