• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What would Jesus do, a question for Republican's

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jesus provided free health care, the money changers did diddly squat for health care, you're point is utterly ridiculous. The typical Republican response is; we don't owe any one anything, but we call ourselves Christian, we're just not interested in following Jesus' example.

Its not about owing anyone anything. It's about doing the right thing. And that is to care for our sick regardless of how much money they have. We have the right to a free education here. Health care is just as important. I would much rather see my tax dollars going toward a worthy cause such as this than many of the other things it goes to.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It this the thread where we ***** and moan about the hypocrisy of approximately half the American nation while professing to honor Jesus by showing no compassion towards those who are hypocrites, or is that another thread? I keep getting threads confused these days. They're beginning to all look the same.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I knew an old gentleman (passed away years ago) hardcore republican (his words, not mine). Was totally against social security. Yet happily received his monthly check and Medicare when eligible. I imagine a universal health care system for all in the USA would be a similar story. If that is we ever follow the example of other civilized nations.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
It this the thread where we ***** and moan about the hypocrisy of approximately half the American nation while professing to honor Jesus by showing no compassion towards those who are hypocrites, or is that another thread? I keep getting threads confused these days. They're beginning to all look the same.

You can show compassion and help people by helping them to help themselves. Forcing people to depend on a welfare state does not have a positive outcome in the long term future. In fact that is a bleak future with Orwellian tones.

You see it as not compassionate because we refuse to hand over loads of cash to fix the problem short term. Which it would. We are thinking long term success here, where hopefully the majority of people are standing on their own 2 feet and does not need help.

Morgan Freeman agrees here as he calls bulls**t on Don Lemon for saying that black folk are not able to pull themself up by their bootstraps.

There will always be some amount of poverty and a small amount we cam handle. But not only can we not realistically afford an ever increasing welfare state, we don't want that welfare state grow in power to begin with.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
You can show compassion and help people by helping them to help themselves. Forcing people to depend on a welfare state does not have a positive outcome in the long term future. In fact that is a bleak future with Orwellian tones.

You see it as not compassionate because we refuse to hand over loads of cash to fix the problem short term. Which it would. We are thinking long term success here, where hopefully the majority of people are standing on their own 2 feet and does not need help.

Morgan Freeman agrees here as he calls bulls**t on Don Lemon for saying that black folk are not able to pull themself up by their bootstraps.

There will always be some amount of poverty and a small amount we cam handle. But not only can we not realistically afford an ever increasing welfare state, we don't want that welfare state grow in power to begin with.

Gee, you make it sound almost as if universal health care -- which is present in one form or another in every industrialized democracy on the planet -- is the road to Stalin's gulags. Have you any reason to believe that?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Gee, you make it sound almost as if universal health care -- which is present in one form or another in every industrialized democracy on the planet -- is the road to Stalin's gulags. Have you any reason to believe that?

Because it could come at the cost of freedom. If the government pays for all healthcare they also control your health. They decide who lives or dies. Case in point, and I warn you before hand this is heartbreaking. Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia.

This is where we do not want to go.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
So do you completely ignore the Social Justice message of Jesus, and would rather the poor suffer and die in poverty with no health care, that's what the message of the right wing is today, the most un Christian values party in history.. Republicans today, especially the Tea party, are no more Christian that the Stalinists in the USSR, I suggest you focus your thoughts on how Jesus treated the poor, disabled and sick and contrast that with the Republican party, which cares way more about unborn infants than living people.
I think, Republicans firmly believe that if Jesus ever questions them about their attitude to the poor, they will just say that they are 'pro-life', anti-abortion and that will give them a free ticket to heaven. Not helping the poor will be automatically forgiven, and so helping the poor is unimportant if not unnecessary.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Because it could come at the cost of freedom. If the government pays for all healthcare they also control your health. They decide who lives or dies. Case in point, and I warn you before hand this is heartbreaking. Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia.

This is where we do not want to go.
Are you saying there is no freedom in Canada, UK, Germany? BTW, if you have enough money you can always get private healthcare whether there is government healthcare or not. So all you are saying is that the poor do not deserve free healthcare.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Are you saying there is no freedom in Canada, UK, Germany? BTW, if you have enough money you can always get private healthcare whether there is government healthcare or not. So all you are saying is that the poor do not deserve free healthcare.

Obviously that is not the case or else Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia might not have died because the U.K. denied him experimental treatment that might have saved him.

Again poverty is the issue that needs tackling. Not giving up our freedoms for healthcare or food or whatever. We focus all of our attention on helping the majority of the poverty stricken communities break the chains of poverty, we will see a large drop in problems associated with it. To do this wihtout giving up freedoms is hard, but it can be done.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Obviously that is not the case or else Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia might not have died because the U.K. denied him experimental treatment that might have saved him.

Again poverty is the issue that needs tackling. Not giving up our freedoms for healthcare or food or whatever. We focus all of our attention on helping the majority of the poverty stricken communities break the chains of poverty, we will see a large drop in problems associated with it. To do this wihtout giving up freedoms is hard, but it can be done.
That is a problem with the UK court system. In any other country, you can fly anywhere you want and get your own treatment. There is no chance of our SCOTUS making such a ruling. Also universal care in the US will not mean private hospitals will be shut down, so you don't even have to fly anywhere. You just need money.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Obviously that is not the case or else Charlie Gard case - Wikipedia might not have died because the U.K. denied him experimental treatment that might have saved him.

Again poverty is the issue that needs tackling. Not giving up our freedoms for healthcare or food or whatever. We focus all of our attention on helping the majority of the poverty stricken communities break the chains of poverty, we will see a large drop in problems associated with it. To do this wihtout giving up freedoms is hard, but it can be done.
No it didn't. From the article you posted it went into detail concerning the hurdles when facing experimental treatment in both the US and UK. Saying the US would have had to go through a similar screening process, thereby delaying the treatment because it's not covered by insurance and both expensive and experimental. Medical experts around the world condemned the efforts to raise money by others who intervened because of the false hope and the extra delays it had on the treatment. Experts in both countries agreed that the chances the very painful treatment succeeding were very small.
This is not an issue of the NHS this happened because the treatment was very experimental with an unsure outcome. Experts did not think it was worth the pain the treatment would have caused. The US system does the same in such circumstances, weigh the benefits against possible results.
Social media had a hissy fit because parents disagreed with expert advice. Understandable sure, but the issue was blown out of proportion by emotional layman idiots.

Now if that information which I got from said article is wrong, please feel free to correct me.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
That is a problem with the UK court system. In any other country, you can fly anywhere you want and get your own treatment. There is no chance of our SCOTUS making such a ruling. Also universal care in the US will not mean private hospitals will be shut down, so you don't even have to fly anywhere. You just need money.

That may be the case. I am not an expert on Canadian, Australian, or UK healthcare. But I know the Candian one is not as great as U.S. citizens think it is, because I have Canadian friends who have said as much. My one friend in Australia loves his healtcare there so maybe the Australians are on to something. But then again your not allowed to own firearms there either, so the freedom restriction is already in place, which is no bueno for me.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
That may be the case. I am not an expert on Canadian, Australian, or UK healthcare. But I know the Candian one is not as great as U.S. citizens think it is, because I have Canadian friends who have said as much. My one friend in Australia loves his healtcare there so maybe the Australians are on to something. But then again your not allowed to own firearms there either, so the freedom restriction is already in place, which is no bueno for me.
Nobody is asking you to take government healthcare or Obamacare for yourself. It is only for the poor and those who can not afford premiums.

Your basic position is that the poor do not deserve free or subsidized healthcare and you don't want to pay for it - very unChristian, I would say.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
No it didn't. From the article you posted it went into detail concerning the hurdles when facing experimental treatment in both the US and UK. Saying the US would have had to go through a similar screening process, thereby delaying the treatment because it's not covered by insurance and both expensive and experimental. Medical experts around the world condemned the efforts to raise money by others who intervened because of the false hope and the extra delays it had on the treatment. Experts in both countries agreed that the chances the very painful treatment succeeding were very small.
This is not an issue of the NHS this happened because the treatment was very experimental with an unsure outcome. Experts did not think it was worth the pain the treatment would have caused. The US system does the same in such circumstances, weigh the benefits against possible results.
Social media had a hissy fit because parents disagreed with expert advice. Understandable sure, but the issue was blown out of proportion by emotional layman idiots.

Does not matter. I am not willing to give up myfreedom to the government for them to decide, and neither is the majority of Americans. If we can figure out a way to do it without giving up the freedom, sure, but thats just not possible becauae currently we cant afford it.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I knew an old gentleman (passed away years ago) hardcore republican (his words, not mine). Was totally against social security. Yet happily received his monthly check and Medicare when eligible. I imagine a universal health care system for all in the USA would be a similar story. If that is we ever follow the example of other civilized nations.
We all pay into Social Security, it wasn't like he was getting it for "free" anyways. Would probably better for us all if government programs were based through the tax system.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Does not matter. I am not willing to give up myfreedom to the government for them to decide, and neither is the majority of Americans. If we can figure out a way to do it without giving up the freedom, sure, but thats just not possible becauae currently we cant afford it.
No one's freedom was got rid of. According to the same article the US would have done the exact same thing with young Charlie. Unless I'm missing something?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Nobody is asking you to take government healthcare or Obamacare for yourself. It is only for the poor and those who can not afford premiums.

Your basic position is that the poor do not deserve free or subsidized healthcare and you don't want to pay for it - very unChristian, I would say.

Actually yes they do. Because I did not sign up for Obamacare because I already had insurance I pay for. I still got charged $250 tax for not signing up for Obamacare. Obamacare is a racketeering scheme.

I want poverty stricken people to break the chains of poverty so that they don't need my help. That is the Christian thing to do. Not establish a welfare state, so that you can keep your thumb on people as you wish to do.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
No one's freedom was got rid of. According to the same article the US would have done the exact same thing with young Charlie. Unless I'm missing something?

Nope, Money talks and bulls**t walks here. If you got the cash you can have the procedure done no matter how experimental. Plus we have non-profits like St.Jude hospital for children that don't charge, who knows maybe they could have helped Charlie. Its a slim chance I admit, but I want the freedom to make that decision on my terms, not some faceless govt organization.
 
Top