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Why do you dislike Islam?

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
There is so little I find appealing in Islam that it is hard to pick a favorite bug-a-boo. I guess my first point, and though it is not exclusive, Islam currently seems to encourage fanatical belief. Repeatedly, over the dozen years I have been on RF we get visited by well meaning Muslims who are almost impossible to have a rational conversation with.

So, I guess what I find disturbing is the level of fanatical thought or fanaticism, in general. I've yet to see any kind of fanatical thought work out well. That said, occasionally we have been graced by intelligent and articulate Muslims, but they stand out simply because they can be reasoned with and are not the norm.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Depends on what you mean by dislike I think. There are some really big hurdles that would prevent me from joining Islam, first and foremost being that I don't believe in the existence of gods. I also do not move with strict family roles, being forced into domesticity, or taking a more subservient role because I am a woman. Even though there are tons of modern Muslim men and women who don't interpret the Qur'an that way, I do. And that is a barrier, though like I said, not the most significant one.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Similar to @YmirGF - there's lots I don't like. But if I were to pick one thing it's that Muslims are soooo invested in 1400 year old world views. Forget terrorism, to me the real issue is that probably more than half the world's Muslims hope for theocratic rule, or believe in at least some subset of some of the more draconian aspects of Sharia, which we know to be misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semitic, and supremacist.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
There is so little I find appealing in Islam that it is hard to pick a favorite bug-a-boo. I guess my first point, and though it is not exclusive, Islam currently seems to encourage fanatical belief. Repeatedly, over the dozen years I have been on RF we get visited by well meaning Muslims who are almost impossible to have a rational conversation with.

So, I guess what I find disturbing is the level of fanatical thought or fanaticism, in general. I've yet to see any kind of fanatical thought work out well. That said, occasionally we have been graced by intelligent and articulate Muslims, but they stand out simply because they can be reasoned with and are not the norm.

Well regarding your point about articulate well meaning Muslims, I think that can go for anyone with some damn sense. I understand your point regarding fanaticism, but I tend to think the media feeds the narrative through the stereotype that Muslims are fanatical. I mean, let's be honest there are some violent Christians and Jews that we do not see in the media but they exist.
 

gottalovemoses

Im mad as Hell!
I heard somewhere that the Islamic religion is "more about obedience than love".
I'd like to think that Christianity is the opposite.More about love than obedience. But I've met some Christians who tend to emphasise obedience over love. as well. Guess they are interconnected, or interdependent. But love comes first in my book even if that means not obeying some scripture verses.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Depends on what you mean by dislike I think. There are some really big hurdles that would prevent me from joining Islam, first and foremost being that I don't believe in the existence of gods. I also do not move with strict family roles, being forced into domesticity, or taking a more subservient role because I am a woman. Even though there are tons of modern Muslim men and women who don't interpret the Qur'an that way, I do. And that is a barrier, though like I said, not the most significant one.

By dislike I'm referring to the personal feelings towards the faith. It seems some people tend to personalize things as if it relates to them. But your latter points are understandable.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.
The absence of religious liberty and freedoms of conscience in almost all Muslim majority countries.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I heard somewhere that the Islamic religion is "more about obedience than love".
I'd like to think that Christianity is the opposite.More about love than obedience. But I've met some Christians who tend to emphasise obedience over love. as well. Guess they are interconnected, or interdependent. But love comes first in my book even if that means not obeying some scripture verses.

Islam is about submission to the will of God, and you will find that Jews are no different given the fact that they must uphold the laws of God and are charged with obedience to the will of God and his laws. The love aspect as I understand it is pure devotion to God. I think this is what I like most about Islam is that many Muslims well, the knowledgeable ones know that we are a microcosmic spec in the universe but can become connected to something far greater than infinity. If you read the Qur'an there is much more emphasis on God's love for humanity than the other way around. In all the monotheistic books in the world, I've never read a verse that said:

"And we are closer to you than your own jugular vein."

That to me is powerful, to know God regardless of my circumstances is with me, regardless whether I am a sinner or pious is still with me, if that is not love than I don't know what to tell you.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
The absence of religious liberty and freedoms of conscience in almost all Muslim majority countries.

I disagree. There are members of various faith in all Muslim countries, now, how they're treated I cannot say since I've never been any of them. But then again define liberty. Liberty to proselytize?
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
I flipped through an English translation of the Koran a couple of times to see that it seems to support very violent and sexist motives. I like Islamic art and I've seen intelligent quotes from Islamic philosophers but the Koran is very demeaning to many people. It's a similar problem I have with a good portion of the Bible actually, except the Bible is less violent and more based on absolute faith.

The pillars are something that I always appreciated about Islam though.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I would agree that Abrahamic religions are a big problem. But Islam is the biggest of them.
Because it's the most culturally primitive.
Tom

How is it culturally primitive?

Do you understand it is because of Islam we have a resurgence of philosophy, math, the sciences etc. But I, along with my parents, parents, would disagree on being culturally primitive I mean, what about the trans-atlantic slave trade and its justification using the Christian Bible? millions of humans were enslaved and forced to convert or die. Not saying this is not in Islamic history but Christianity I think has more blood on its hands than any other faith in the world.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I have trouble even spelling it. :)
But I need to read the Christian Bible first.if you devote enough time to it, there is hardly any time for other books.

Can I ask you something? Would you forget saying "upon him be peace" whenever you mention a prophet in the Bible, or the mentioning of Jesus? Devout Muslims do this daily. Hell, I can only wish if someone mentioned my real name they would wish peace upon me. To me this is devotion.
 

gottalovemoses

Im mad as Hell!
I would agree that Abrahamic religions are a big problem. But Islam is the biggest of them.
Because it's the most culturally primitive.
Tom
Guess you're right. I think we need to be respectful of them if we have to communicate with them. But as a whole Religion, I am rather dubious of their perspective on things.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
No it isn't.
It's about submission to the will of people who claim to speak for God. That's quite different.
Tom

I tend to think I'm a little bit more knowledgeable than you when it comes to Islam but you can disagree but if you want to discuss/debate on what Islam means this is the thread for it. Because your presentation is quite wrong. Islam in its extreme form is about a complete devotion to God.
 
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