How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

But actually, in a basic "Intro to the World Religions" course, I was taught that Zoroastrians believed in a good God and and evil god and the Good God would win in the end. That's very similar to Christians that believe that Satan is warring with God but will lose in the end. But why does God allow the evil god and Satan to exist in the first place? But that's how they explain why there is evil in the world.

I did basic studies too. At that time, from what I learned, Zoroastrianism was about the most dualistc religion out there. Very much about good and evil, much more Abrahamic than dharmic by philosophy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks Tony, But you know I'm going to find something in there to question. Are you up to it?

Ha ha, I would ask are you ready for the potential answers.

I have found this to be our hurdle in life. It is easier to turn away and not face the challenge it presents. Still working on that myself.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

I did basic studies too. At that time, from what I learned, Zoroastrianism was about the most dualistc religion out there. Very much about good and evil, much more Abrahamic than dharmic by philosophy.

The Jews were ruled by the Persians (whose main religion was Zoroastrianism) for several centuries and it is argued that the dualistic ideas or God, Satan, Good, bad, angels and demons, heaven and hell that feature in Christianity were in part a result of the influence of the Persians.

 

[CG Didymus]

I did basic studies too. At that time, from what I learned, Zoroastrianism was about the most dualistc religion out there. Very much about good and evil, much more Abrahamic than dharmic by philosophy.

Yeah, that's what I thought. But you know what we were taught is wrong, because it is not what the Baha'is say. They have an infallible source of information. I wonder why Abdu'l Baha is infallible? Is infallibility passed on genetically?

 

[CG Didymus]

Ha ha, I would ask are you ready for the potential answers.

I have found this to be our hurdle in life. It is easier to turn away and not face the challenge it presents. Still working on that myself.

Regards Tony

Number One Question: Is the Book of Revelation revealing things in a chronological order? Number two would be: Why would the Book of Revelation have so much about Islam in it? Yet, when I looked up what the Quran said about the Book of Revelation nothing came up?

Twists and turns... every time 1260 is mentioned it refers to the rule of the Quran? A woman gave birth to a son and Abdu'l Baha says the child is The Bab. But it says that the child will "shepherd the nations"? When did The Bab do that? The mother flees to the desert for 1260 days and that is still the time the Quran ruled? Oh yes, Revelation says an earthquake killed 7000. Abdu'l Baha says there was an earthquake but doesn't say how many were killed.

Sackcloth is "old raiment"? I thought it was to show repentance or mourning in the Bible? The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali? I've heard about Muhammad. I always hear about Muhammad... and never about this guy Ali. Who is he and why is he so important that God had him put into the Book of Revelation along with a guy who is a Baha'i manifestation?

Abdu'l Baha says that all the other manifestations had 12 main guys following them. But Baha'u'llah has 24? Who were they?

So, apparently, 1260 plus the year of the Hejira adds up to 1844? But you do this by adding numbers from the Islamic lunar calendar? Again, why would the Book of Revelation have so much about Islam in it but nothing about what happens in Christianity?

All I saw from Abdu'l Baha was commentary on two chapters of the Book of Revelation. The story goes on. He didn't say anything about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Nothing about the Battle of Armageddon and an army of 200 million.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Jews were ruled by the Persians (whose main religion was Zoroastrianism) for several centuries and it is argued that the dualistic ideas or God, Satan, Good, bad, angels and demons, heaven and hell that feature in Christianity were in part a result of the influence of the Persians.

That's like something I would say... that cultures and their religious beliefs influenced other people and their culture. So where did Christianity get the idea of having a dying and rising again God/man that conquers the evil god?

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's like something I would say... that cultures and their religious beliefs influenced other people and their culture. So where did Christianity get the idea of having a dying and rising again God/man that conquers the evil god?

In regards to cultural influences, the Greeks must be near the top of the list.

Resurrection - Wikipedia

The Baha'is would argue the message of Christ comes from God but the manner in which those teachings is dependant on culture. When Paul taught about the exalted nature of the soul of a true believe both in this life and after death, we have the resurrection. Ideas were communicated with language and concepts that were readily grasped by the listeners. Paul found teaching the Gentiles fertile ground, including the Greeks.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Number One Question: Is the Book of Revelation revealing things in a chronological order?

No.

Number two would be: Why would the Book of Revelation have so much about Islam in it?

Because it is a prophetic book and Islam is an important part of God's plan.

Yet, when I looked up what the Quran said about the Book of Revelation nothing came up?

Muslims don't hold the bible in high esteem and believe it is corrupted.

Twists and turns... every time 1260 is mentioned it refers to the rule of the Quran?

1260 on the Islamic Calendar refers to 1844 on the Gregorian Calendar. It is the birth of the Baha'i revelation.

A woman gave birth to a son and Abdu'l Baha says the child is The Bab.

But it says that the child will "shepherd the nations"? When did The Bab do that?

No, but Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah will.

The mother flees to the desert for 1260 days and that is still the time the Quran ruled?

It simply refers to the birth of the Baha'i revelation in 1844 or 1260.

Oh yes, Revelation says an earthquake killed 7000. Abdu'l Baha says there was an earthquake but doesn't say how many were killed.

The earthquake is probably metaphorical representing a dramatic change in traditions and culture. It is associated with God's judgement. 1,000 is a great multitude and seven represents completeness. God's judgement is completed and perfected with the emergence of the Baha'i revelation.

Sackcloth is "old raiment"? I thought it was to show repentance or mourning in the Bible?

Sacred verses can have multiple meanings.

The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali? I've heard about Muhammad. I always hear about Muhammad... and never about this guy Ali. Who is he and why is he so important that God had him put into the Book of Revelation along with a guy who is a Baha'i manifestation?

Ali was the first Imam and legitimate successor of Muhammad. The whole Sunni/Shi'ite schism is about succession after Islam. The Bab is the twelfth Imam fulfilling the Mahdi prophecy in Shi'ite Islam.

Abdu'l Baha says that all the other manifestations had 12 main guys following them. But Baha'u'llah has 24? Who were they?

Only 19 are known. The other 5 may become apparent to future scholars.

Apostles of Bahá’u’lláh - Bahaikipedia, an encyclopedia about the Bahá’í Faith

So, apparently, 1260 plus the year of the Hejira adds up to 1844? But you do this by adding numbers from the Islamic lunar calendar? Again, why would the Book of Revelation have so much about Islam in it but nothing about what happens in Christianity?

There is plenty about Christianity and Judaism too if the Apocalyptic prophetic writings are considered in their entirety.

All I saw from Abdu'l Baha was commentary on two chapters of the Book of Revelation. The story goes on. He didn't say anything about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Nothing about the Battle of Armageddon and an army of 200 million.

Those 2 chapters along with some commentary on the book of Daniel are a good start. Baha'is are encouraged to unravel all the mysteries with sacred scripture through prayer and meditation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks for the response, Aidan supplied answers above, there is not much more I need to say on those points he covered. I will comment a little more on some points as follows;

Why would the Book of Revelation have so much about Islam in it? Yet, when I looked up what the Quran said about the Book of Revelation nothing came up?

I see it very Logical that both the Torah and the New Testament mention the progression of Religion in the Line from Abraham. Islam had a big influence on Faith in God that all Humanity needed to consider prior to the 'Day of the Lord'.

Had Christianity seen the Christ Spirit in Muhammad and heeded the warnings Muhammad gave about incorrect doctrines, then the 'Day of the Lord' may not have come upon us with so many clouds before our eyes and we may not have been caught like a thief in the night.

The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali? I've heard about Muhammad. I always hear about Muhammad... and never about this guy Ali. Who is he and why is he so important that God had him put into the Book of Revelation along with a guy who is a Baha'i manifestation?

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were of the Shia side of Islam, Shia is a branch of Islam holds that Muhammad on more than one occasion designated Ali ibn Abi Talib as his successor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

This line lasted to AH 260 and a Shia Hadith tells of the return of Imam Mahdi - This has been discussed by Investigate Truth - Here - Shia Muslim - Baha'I: Period of Muslims

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Rev 13

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
​

So we have one beast in verse 5 that had authority for 42 months. Who is that? And what is the "Lamb's book of life"?

In verse 11 there is a second beast and this one is associated with the "number of a man...666" And Baha'is say this beast is not a man but the year 666? Please explain. Thanks.

Well I believe it's hard to deny that militant Islam is not a beast of destruction & murdering.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You missed it. I'm a vegetarian, and believe in ahimsa. No fishing for me from anywhere. Religious beliefs do affect behaviour.

Right. Then we can have some mango lassi and prashadam. Does that sound better?

 

[Vinayaka]

Right. Then we can have some mango lassi and prashadam. Does that sound better?

Do you even know what prashadam is?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Isn't it though! I spelled it wrong. It's Ullambana ceremony, but yeah. We bowed so much, I didn't know I did that much exercising until I got home and wondered why my legs were sore. I think you would have liked it if you came. There were visitors there too.

I would have loved it. Looks like it helps develop humility too.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would have loved it. Looks like it helps develop humility too.

Yeah. I was reading about the role of the laity. Of course, we try to meditate as much as we can. We're asked to serve those in need and help the monks. I volunteer teach and thought that goes towards helping others and during the ceremonies, they said I can help set up for the holidays and clean up in the monastery (we're asked to give donation through service or money, etc to the monks).

It does show humility.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you even know what prashadam is?

From my understanding it's food that is first offered in worship then consumed. I used to have it at the Hare Krishna Temples along with lassi.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah. I was reading about the role of the laity. Of course, we try to meditate as much as we can. We're asked to serve those in need and help the monks. I volunteer teach and thought that goes towards helping others and during the ceremonies, they said I can help set up for the holidays and clean up in the monastery (we're asked to give donation through service or money, etc to the monks).

It does show humility.

It's a time to honor one's ancestors and to relieve their suffering? I read where some monasteries chanted the Amitabha Sutta to transfer merits to ancestors. It's very encouraging to be able to do something for those who have passed on.

 

[Vinayaka]

From my understanding it's food that is first offered in worship then consumed. I used to have it at the Hare Krishna Temples along with lassi.

Yes, and it varies from sect to sect. (Food varies widely throughout India, very diverse) Might be as simple as a piece of fruit. But to partake truly you'd have to watch and believe in 'idol worship'.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah. I was reading about the role of the laity. Of course, we try to meditate as much as we can. We're asked to serve those in need and help the monks. I volunteer teach and thought that goes towards helping others and during the ceremonies, they said I can help set up for the holidays and clean up in the monastery (we're asked to give donation through service or money, etc to the monks).

It does show humility.

In Hinduism, where monasticism is so important too, we help also because we know that one lifetime it will be our turn to renounce the world. Monastics are the flag-bearers of dharmic faiths, the ones who keep the inner traditions alive, and I'm just so grateful.

 

[RoaringSilence]

From my understanding it's food that is first offered in worship then consumed. I used to have it at the Hare Krishna Temples along with lassi.

In Hinduism, where monasticism is so important too, we help also because we know that one lifetime it will be our turn to renounce the world. Monastics are the flag-bearers of dharmic faiths, the ones who keep the inner traditions alive, and I'm just so grateful.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's a time to honor one's ancestors and to relieve their suffering? I read where some monasteries chanted the Amitabha Sutta to transfer merits to ancestors. It's very encouraging to be able to do something for those who have passed on.

I went to a Pure Land Buddhist Temple (they give reverence to Amida Buddha). I don't know what they practice, though, since I never gone to a ceremony. They do chant Amida Buddha.

We chanted The Buddha's name and the bodhisattvas that help us follow The Buddha's teachings.

In Hinduism, where monasticism is so important too, we help also because we know that one lifetime it will be our turn to renounce the world. Monastics are the flag-bearers of dharmic faiths, the ones who keep the inner traditions alive, and I'm just so grateful.

True. What we contribute brings good merits and helps create better karma. I wonder if the laity carry (or represent?) of the lineage once they are initiated or is it only carried through the monks as we help them and the people? (in Hinduism?)

I was also wondering how much do the monks work with the laity. Since I can't always go to Dhamma talks, I was also reading online that if I wanted to meet with one of the monks (as she offered) that it would be advisable to help pay for transportation, maybe lunch, or so have you since they don't ask. However, I don't know how similar Zen Mahayana Buddhist are similar to Tibetan Buddhist religious equitique.

Yeah. I can see why you are grateful.