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Is Joy of Satan really THAT bad?

SabahTheLoner

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
Yes, I've read their website. I've looked at the rituals. I've seen the Christian lash-back stuff on their page. A lot of people say "oh, Joy of Satan, that's not real Satanism, it's not a good site". It is extremist in some areas, I think to argue otherwise would be a waste of time. But, aside from the horrendous aesthetics on some of the pages, is the organization actually that bad, and misrepresenting, in terms of Satanic faith and practice? I mean I know they seem to draw quite a bit from Christian cosmology (as much as they seem to deny a Christian label) but beyond that I don't see a large difference of belief compared to other Theistic Satanists.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
When you come to terms with the fact that who you thought Satan was, is not based on actuality, but on folklore handed down by different religions. you come away seeing him differently. More like a path towards change, instead of a being that tempts you to do bad things. So, there can be joy in that, I think.
 
Liu

Liu

Well-Known Member
@Deidre: Ignorance is bliss - have you really not encountered yet the neo-nazi group "Joy of Satan"? (or "Joy of Sitchin", as some deem more apt.)

Regarding the thread's question, it's been long since I last looked closer into their website - but regardless of whether their rituals are effective or not, there is one thing that differentiates them from many theistic satanists: The JoS are dogmatic and group-minded in their theology. With them, it's not about finding out for yourself what is true, but about believing what they tell you.
 
SabahTheLoner

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
Deidre said:
When you come to terms with the fact that who you thought Satan was, is not based on actuality, but on folklore handed down by different religions. you come away seeing him differently. More like a path towards change, instead of a being that tempts you to do bad things. So, there can be joy in that, I think.
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I don't really mean having joy about Satan. My experience with Satanism has been a very gratifying one and I don't doubt that. There is a group called Joy of Satan that post a lot of anti-Christ facts and try to find Satanic beliefs through cross-cultural comparison. They even condemn animal and human sacrifice as part of the anti-Christ movement, although they call Satan the "one true creator".
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
SabahTheLoner said:
I don't really mean having joy about Satan. My experience with Satanism has been a very gratifying one and I don't doubt that. There is a group called Joy of Satan that post a lot of anti-Christ facts and try to find Satanic beliefs through cross-cultural comparison. They even condemn animal and human sacrifice as part of the anti-Christ movement, although they call Satan the "one true creator".
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I honestly had no idea, I will have to look at this.

They don't sound any different than any other spin off cult that makes up their own rules and rituals.
 
VioletVortex

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
I used to read their website, I found it very interesting. That aside, their particular form of theism is very fringe, in that they believe that Satan and Yawheh are engaged in combat on another planet, which is a far cry from the typical deism espoused by most Satanists. That's the aspect of their belief system that rubs me wrong really, the chances of finding deities in extraterrestrial beings is very slim, more likely they are very similar to us. The Nazism I could care less about. It's a ****ing joke to me.
 
Serpent Child

Serpent Child

Member
Hammerheart said:
I used to read their website, I found it very interesting. That aside, their particular form of theism is very fringe, in that they believe that Satan and Yawheh are engaged in combat on another planet, which is a far cry from the typical deism espoused by most Satanists. That's the aspect of their belief system that rubs me wrong really, the chances of finding deities in extraterrestrial beings is very slim, more likely they are very similar to us. The Nazism I could care less about. It's a ****ing joke to me.
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No. They believe all Abrahamic figures are not real and that there are human-hating ETs that are behind the name "Yahweh". They believe that different ET races look at humanity as a resource, for example how we look at the animal species Sheep as a resource.

SabahTheLoner said:
Yes, I've read their website. I've looked at the rituals. I've seen the Christian lash-back stuff on their page. A lot of people say "oh, Joy of Satan, that's not real Satanism, it's not a good site". It is extremist in some areas, I think to argue otherwise would be a waste of time. But, aside from the horrendous aesthetics on some of the pages, is the organization actually that bad, and misrepresenting, in terms of Satanic faith and practice? I mean I know they seem to draw quite a bit from Christian cosmology (as much as they seem to deny a Christian label) but beyond that I don't see a large difference of belief compared to other Theistic Satanists.
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They believe in a Pre-Abrahamic Satan who was worshiped as the god creator in ancient times, nothing Abrahamic or biblical. They literally practice Pre-Abrahamic Paganism that's what they think true Satanism is.
This is a sermon one of their High Priests did that goes in-depth on the Pre-Abrahamic Satan, sources are listed at the bottom:
Satan Lucifer The Lord Of The World - Joy Of Satan Forums

People hate them because they are hardcore Nazis, extremely anti-semitic and believe the Holocaust was a lie.
 
K

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
YES.

Nazis and their sympathizers are bad. Reverse Christians are bad. Do we really need to ask why both combined would be bad? Add to that previous leaders were shown to actually be real Christian neo-nazis involved in Neo-nazi movements and circles.

Below, from this source with emphasis added:

"Even Clifford Herrington, husband of Joy of Satan founder Maxine Dietrich, once made a speech about how the U.S.A. should be home only to "white European Christians!" (Here's an audio file containing a brief excerpt.) Herrington was chairman of the National Socialist Movement (NSM), which, according to the Anti-Defamation League, was "America's Largest Neo-Nazi Group" as of June 2006. Only a month later, the NSM fell apart when Clifford Herrington's connection to the Joy of Satan Ministries became public knowledge. (See Nazis Falling on the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center.) The most popular religion among neo-Nazis and other extremist White Nationalists, at least here in the U.S.A., is Christian Identity. For more about neo-Nazism's natural affinity for the more intolerant forms of Christianity, see my separate article on Nazism and Christianity.

In my opinion, Satanist neo-Nazis are almost as ridiculous as gay neo-Nazis, and for pretty much the same reason."

---

If that doesn't convince someone, years ago I managed to get into one of their hidden discussion boards to see what they talked about. Guess what it was? 75% of it was how to throw curses on synagogues and about racial ideology. 20% was sucking up and super conformist mob mentality. There wasn't anything individualistic about it at all. Maybe 5% was kinda interesting about technique but it was far and few in between.
--

As far as the other parts, particularly aliens: http://theisticsatanism.com/CoAz/belief/interpret.html'](has links to some sources to the last point below)

"...the "Joy of Satan" belief system which holds that Satan and all other gods are really advanced extraterrestrial humanoids who live on a distant planet, occasionally visit Earth in the flesh, and at other times stay in touch with us via telepathy.

This belief is based on the writings of such authors as Erich Von Daniken and Zecharia Sitchin, which have long been discredited by more reputable scholars."

---

It's also worth mentioning that a lot of their 'good stuff' like the rituals and meditations are plagiarized from I can't recall what but some neo-pagan source. I tried to hunt down a site that collected all the info on it and had proof but sadly the site was not maintained and seems to no longer exist.

If someone wants to use any of the meditation or magical guides I don't see a problem with that, just know that they didn't write them or originate with them. I wish I could find all the info on that but for now you'll just have to take my word for it barring your own research on the subject. Then again it's an age old tradition for occultists to steal from each other. In any case everything else from that organization is utter garbage. **** Nazis.
 
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Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
I always got a kick out of them, they seem to irritate some self proclaimed Satanists who seem to believe that everything is acceptable---- with the exception of Nazism if even in jest. If you are a Satanist and you are doing something some Satanists are getting pissed off about, you are probably doing something right.
 
Liu

Liu

Well-Known Member
Stanyon said:
I always got a kick out of them, they seem to irritate some self proclaimed Satanists who seem to believe that everything is acceptable---- with the exception of Nazism if even in jest. If you are a Satanist and you are doing something some Satanists are getting pissed off about, you are probably doing something right.
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If they were doing this intentionally for that purpose I might agree with you - but the JoS is too anti-intellectual and to hive-minded to be in any way true to what most other Satanists would associate with their religion.

I wouldn't take offense with them being nazis for the mere fact of it - if they were not so damn stupid about it. Well, I don't think I ever have encountered a nazi with entirely sound arguments for their ideology so I may still have some prejudice, but the JoS produce bullsh*t that is even worse than normal nazi bullsh*t.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Liu said:
If they were doing this intentionally for that purpose I might agree with you - but the JoS is too anti-intellectual and too hive-minded to be in any way true to what most other Satanists would associate with their religion.
I wouldn't take offense with them being nazis for the mere fact of it - if they were not so damn stupid about it. Well, I don't think I ever have encountered a nazi with entirely sound arguments for their ideology so I may still have some prejudice, but the JoS produce bullsh*t that is even worse than normal nazi bullsh*t.
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What I bolded in your post is exactly why I gave the JoS credit, what most others do in anything is of no concern or care of mine and if someone stirs the pot a little and are seen as rocking some imagined canoe then I get more than a little bit of a chuckle from it. At the end of the day it doesn't change a bit what I do or what I am going to do and I would hope that would go for anyone else.
 
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Liu

Liu

Well-Known Member
Stanyon said:
What I bolded in your post is exactly why I gave the JoS credit, what most others do in anything is of no concern or care of mine and if someone stirs the pot a little and are seen as rocking some imagined canoe then I get more than a little bit of a chuckle from it. At the end of the day it doesn't change a bit what I do or what I am going to do and I would hope that would go for anyone else.
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I fully get what you mean. I just wouldn't give people credit for something they do out of stupidity.
But yeah, the lord works in mysterious ways ;) And if this is his way of choice to stop his flock from becoming too homogeneous and to get stired up a bit... I certainly got better things to do than go on the barricades about a non-issue like the JoS.
 
EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Satans_Serrated_Edge said:
LOL at this source. Margolin? Fraize? Raspotnik?
I know all these guys and trust me, they are hardly credible sources for anything (aside from grudges and sour grapes)

I'm sure Zach will be thrilled that someone used one of his videos here though.

As per the JOS, just ****ing lol. It's a dimwit trap.
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Is there something, in particular, you have an issue with? It seems rather obvious that the JoS is not Satanism and does not understand Satanism, nor is a representation of Satanism.
 
Liu

Liu

Well-Known Member
EtuMalku said:
Is there something, in particular, you have an issue with? It seems rather obvious that the JoS is not Satanism and does not understand Satanism, nor is a representation of Satanism.
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It might seem obvious that it's not, but there seems to be a lot of people who do consider it a valid form of Satanism.
Most of these people are idiots and/or ignorant/naive, but I even heard that argument being made by actual Satanists whose opinions I normally tend to agree with that Satanism, being as ill-defined as it is, should also include the JoS since they themselves do consider themselves Satanists and worship a deity that they call Satan.
All a matter of definition.
 
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