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Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Yes and as I said, no different to what Jesus pbuh commanded in the Bible. Depending on what sort of Christian you are, you too hold certain people of the Christian faith to be 'misguided'.

Anglican Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians don't consider Jesus pbuh to be Elah that's found in the Bible either. Jews can pray in a Mosque but are forbidden to pray to 3 gods, thus banned from going anywhere near a Church. In that respect I would wholeheartedly agree Jews and Muslims do not worship the gods of Christianity.

Your Bible also says in Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

So those who reject God's Messengers are at war with the God of Abraham pbuh. I wish you all the luck in the World with that one :)

If you read the book of Revelation, Jesus pbuh returns to kill all those who refuse to obey God's Messenger, Luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."


And that's what the Angels did in battle against the Polytheists. The verse had nothing to do with the people of the book, though they would have met the same fate had they sided with the Pagans.


Well don't count Jesus of Nazareth amongst 'Christians' He prayed with his head on the ground, was circumcised, refrained from eating pork or drinking strong drink and called his God, Allah swt. He also fully submitted his will to Allah, and in Arabic the word for one who does that is MUSLIM.

The Aramaic Bible Society translated Luke 6:40 into Hebrew as: Ein talmeed na’leh al rabbo, shekken kal adam, she’mushlam yihyeh ka rabbo. The English reads: "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect (Mushlam, Muslim!) shall be as his master."



Here's some context for you, starting at verse 9:28

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Obviously you don't care that you brushed aside the teachings of Jesus pbuh in favour of Paul. Let's hope you mend your ways and repent before you return to Allah swt:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’…
So we're supposed to fight with each other or angels are supposed to kill me or something because I'm a polytheist?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So we're supposed to fight with each other or angels are supposed to kill me or something because I'm a polytheist?
Peace be upon you. You are to be left to your devices until you return to your maker for judgement. The only time anyone can fight you on Earth is in self defence or to repel a invading force you may decide to be part of.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Peace be upon you. You are to be left to your devices until you return to your maker for judgement. The only time anyone can fight you on Earth is in self defence or to repel a invading force you may decide to be part of.
Does Daesh have the right to fight me if I decide to go fight in Syria to protect ancient polytheist temples and such? Or if I want to protect religious icons and such from Muslims who want to destroy them?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Does Daesh have the right to fight me if I decide to go fight in Syria to protect ancient polytheist temples and such? Or if I want to protect religious icons and such from Muslims who want to destroy them?
Syria is a majority Muslim Country where remnants of ancient structures were preserved as part of mankind's heritage. Feel free to travel there and fight Daesh and groups like them all you like.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yes and as I said, no different to what Jesus pbuh commanded in the Bible. Depending on what sort of Christian you are, you too hold certain people of the Christian faith to be 'misguided'.

Anglican Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians don't consider Jesus pbuh to be Elah that's found in the Bible either. Jews can pray in a Mosque but are forbidden to pray to 3 gods, thus banned from going anywhere near a Church. In that respect I would wholeheartedly agree Jews and Muslims do not worship the gods of Christianity.

Your Bible also says in Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

So those who reject God's Messengers are at war with the God of Abraham pbuh. I wish you all the luck in the World with that one :)

If you read the book of Revelation, Jesus pbuh returns to kill all those who refuse to obey God's Messenger, Luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."


And that's what the Angels did in battle against the Polytheists. The verse had nothing to do with the people of the book, though they would have met the same fate had they sided with the Pagans.


Well don't count Jesus of Nazareth amongst 'Christians' He prayed with his head on the ground, was circumcised, refrained from eating pork or drinking strong drink and called his God, Allah swt. He also fully submitted his will to Allah, and in Arabic the word for one who does that is MUSLIM.

The Aramaic Bible Society translated Luke 6:40 into Hebrew as: Ein talmeed na’leh al rabbo, shekken kal adam, she’mushlam yihyeh ka rabbo. The English reads: "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect (Mushlam, Muslim!) shall be as his master."



Here's some context for you, starting at verse 9:28

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Obviously you don't care that you brushed aside the teachings of Jesus pbuh in favour of Paul. Let's hope you mend your ways and repent before you return to Allah swt:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’…


I have question for you, you said in the book of Revelation that Jesus returns to kill all those does who not obey God's commands.
Do you have any idea who comes first before Jesus comes.

If I may answer you, There is not 3 God's.
There is only 1 God, not 3 God's.

Look Jesus = Son of God = The Father =
Almighty God = God is 1. and there is no other only 1. They are same God.

Look do you have a wife, do you have children, do you have friends,

Your husband to your wife.
Your a father to your children
Your a friend to your friends.
But you are only 1

your 1 husband to your wife
your 1 to your children
your 1 to your friends

Your still only 1. Not 3, only 1.

Like Jesus
Jesus is son of God
Jesus is Almighty God
Jesus is Holy Spirit
still only 1 God. Not 3, only 1.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Muslim-UK, post: 5291645, member: 62463


Well don't count Jesus of Nazareth amongst 'Christians' He prayed with his head on the ground, was circumcised, refrained from eating pork or drinking strong drink and called his God, Allah swt. He also fully submitted his will to Allah, and in Arabic the word for one who does that is MUSLIM.

The Aramaic Bible Society translated Luke 6:40 into Hebrew as: Ein talmeed na’leh al rabbo, shekken kal adam, she’mushlam yihyeh ka rabbo. The English reads: "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect (Mushlam, Muslim!) shall be as his master."

[/QUOTE]

Well, Jesus was following Jewish customs. Who do you believe was crucified?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well, Jesus was following Jewish customs. Who do you believe was crucified?
No idea, as it doesn't matter. Some of his Disciples said, it was Simon of Cyrene, the man who incidentally carried the cross in Mark's Gospel, others thought it Judas Iscariot. Pilate had two prisoners named Jesus under arrest, and one was released, we know Jesus pbuh had the ability to shape-shift and alter his appearance and voice.

The other thing to remember is read the resurrection accounts, they are contradictory and show Jesus pbuh awoke in his earthly body, not spiritual. In fact he disguises himself in case he is recognised and captured. Early Church records show followers of the faith had no clue about crucifixion or resurrection. The cross wasn't even depicted in images until the 4th Century.

There is no way God would abandon his Prophet to die at the hands of his enemies like that. Every soul accounts fr their own deeds, no one carries the burden for another, and that is plainly taught in the Torah, something Jesus pbuh lived by.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Where are you getting this information that Jesus is a shape shifter and disguises himself as to not be captured? That's not from Scripture so just wondering where you're getting these ideas from? Are they just your guesses?
No idea, as it doesn't matter. Some of his Disciples said, it was Simon of Cyrene, the man who incidentally carried the cross in Mark's Gospel, others thought it Judas Iscariot. Pilate had two prisoners named Jesus under arrest, and one was released, we know Jesus pbuh had the ability to shape-shift and alter his appearance and voice.

The other thing to remember is read the resurrection accounts, they are contradictory and show Jesus pbuh awoke in his earthly body, not spiritual. In fact he disguises himself in case he is recognised and captured. Early Church records show followers of the faith had no clue about crucifixion or resurrection. The cross wasn't even depicted in images until the 4th Century.

There is no way God would abandon his Prophet to die at the hands of his enemies like that. Every soul accounts fr their own deeds, no one carries the burden for another, and that is plainly taught in the Torah, something Jesus pbuh lived by.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus in regards to Jesus' identity? If no, which of the two religions is more likely to disappear first? If yes, which of the two religions do you think should and will make the bigger compromise? Will Christians accept Jesus as a divine prophet? Will Muslims adopt the concept of Trinity? Will they decide to change Jesus' status into both a prophet and The Son Of God to incorporate both beliefs?
Just as soon as the many Christian denominations mange to reconcile since Islam is just another Jesus believing religion.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well you sure do not know how to use logic yourself. So how are you to show
someone logic when you, yourself have no logic.
I believe:
I have taken a course in logic.
I have made many statements about logic on RF
therefore I have logic.

Do you need me to show you where your logic is flawed? I believe I can do that.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Just as soon as the many Christian denominations mange to reconcile since Islam is just another Jesus believing religion.

Only if or when all Muslims come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He died on the cross for the sins of the world and that He rose again from the dead in accordance with the scriptures can the two be reconciled. There is no other way.

Islam is not a Jesus believing religion. It is a Mohammed believing religion.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Why red herring? Jews reject the notion of God being triune and sharing His throne with 2 others, whereas you say He has always been Three. Other than the Catholic Church, who else taught this concept before the Second Century?

I believe you are confusing me with the RCC. I do not say that He is or has been three but I do say the three are God.

I believe you got it right up to that point and it can be said of Muslims as well because encountering God in Jesus you reject Him.

Basically a red herring is an attempt to mislead people by presenting data (lack of it) that is irrelevant.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Only if or when all Muslims come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He died on the cross for the sins of the world and that He rose again from the dead in accordance with the scriptures can the two be reconciled. There is no other way.

Islam is not a Jesus believing religion. It is a Mohammed believing religion.
JW doesn't believe mainstream trinitarian, that is not a prerequisite for Christianity. Islam is waiting for Christ to come back, that is not Judaism.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
JW doesn't believe mainstream trinitarian, that is not a prerequisite for Christianity. Islam is waiting for Christ to come back, that is not Judaism.

What does that have to do with my post you quoted? I don't see a connection.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Only if or when all Muslims come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He died on the cross for the sins of the world and that He rose again from the dead in accordance with the scriptures can the two be reconciled. There is no other way.

Islam is not a Jesus believing religion. It is a Mohammed believing religion.

I believe that s unnecessary because the Christ is only relevant to Jews and they are not Jews.

I believe there is a conceptional problem with that but by and large It think that is doable.


Again there are difficulties to overcome but it s not impossible.

I believe this isn't absolutely necessary but it can be helpful.

That isn't as big a deal as it sounds but it would help Muslims understand the Gospel that they do not know other than Jesus has it.

I believe the greatest importance is for Muslims to know & believe the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
What does that have to do with my post you quoted? I don't see a connection.
JW are Christian's that don't believe in the trinity just like Muslims. My point was to show why muslims are just another Christian sect. What kind of non-Jesus religion waits for Jesus as a messiah.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
[QUOTE="idav, post: 5292465, member: 30513"]JW doesn't believe mainstream trinitarian, that is not a prerequisite for Christianity. Islam is waiting for Christ to come back, that is not Judaism.[/QUOTE]

I believe you are correct but then the JWs have to deal with an angry God who considers a non-trinitarian view as idolatry. In other words they break the first commandment.

I believe Muslims are waiting for the Mahdi which is not the same thing.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I believe you are correct but then the JWs have to deal with an angry God who considers a non-trinitarian view as idolatry. In other words they break the first commandment.

I believe Muslims are waiting for the Mahdi which is not the same thing.
That is very interesting argument since non-trinitarian would accuse trinitarians of just that, idolatry. To their defense they would not believe they are practicing idolatry.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Trinity doctrine implies that there are no two "others" as such, and therefore no sharing.

Instead, there would be a sole deity which happens to like to manifest itself in three distinct aspects.

No one has to take that as truth, of course. But it is not like they are proposing three independent deities.

I don't believe there is enough evidence for that. I believe it is instrumental to the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which is temporally relevant.

I believe you deserve kudos for that but some Christians get much to close to that than they should.
 
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