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How are these Great Beings explained?

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
And some Muslims think Bahai is a product of Israel, Russia or England.

To me, the Problem is, people do not investigate. They superficially judge.
To say the Baha'i Faith is not strongly related to Islam isn't realistic. You have too many similarities. So I don't understand why you think it doesn't?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Baha'is here have said the flood was symbolic, no real world-wide flood. Now you use it as if it was real. Which is it? Legend, myth, symbolic, real, local or world-wide? What do Baha'is believe about the flood story?

You have the back end of a conversation that God Doeth as he Willeth.

Man always expects to find God with His own interpretations and always rejects the Messenger sent by God in Gods Way.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
...Henotheism appears to be a supreme God amidst a family of Gods, so a form of polytheism, in contrast to the Abrahamics. Having said that, Christianity is arguably polytheistic with its belief in the Trinity. The Baha'i Faith, Islam and Judaism are arguably more monotheistic...
But even these other religions has spiritual beings, Archangels and such. Baha'is have their Concourse on High. But then you also have manifestations pre-existing too, don't you?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
We Baha'is believe that the latest Manifestation has it right. Those events occurred thousands of years ago so really, only God knows what really transpired. And He set the facts straight through His Representative.

I don't think the Quran mentions which son was offered up.
So Jewish Scriptures say Isaac and Jesus and Muhammad didn't correct that error? Only Baha'u'llah? So the implication is that Moses knew. And had it right. That it was Ishmael not Isaac that was offered as a sacrifice. Then how did it get recorded wrong in Jewish Scriptures?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Anything that comes from God i believe is reality, truth and fact. I think that its man who's society is in such a mess and who is so confused that hasn't got his facts right.

I do not believe anyone has really experienced God who does not accept His Manifestation.
Is the Bible from God? If yes, then... Are the things in it facts?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What do Baha'is believe about the flood story? Do you have a comment on that?

I have not really studied it much. It is high in inner meanings, at the same time it would have a material unfolding. Just not how we read it to be.

Raining for fourty days and fourty nights ties into other revelations in some way. 40 being mentioned in the Bible a few times and Days can be years.

The Revelation of Baha'ullah was 40 years.

There has been people that have attempted detailed examination of this subject. A friend recently compiled references to the number 40.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Baha'is here have said the flood was symbolic, no real world-wide flood. Now you use it as if it was real. Which is it? Legend, myth, symbolic, real, local or world-wide? What do Baha'is believe about the flood story?

This is the effort a friend has put into the Number 40;

"FORTY in the Old Testament, New Testament, Quran, Bayan, Baha'i

. . In the interpretation of the Holy Mariner, drawing the parallel to Noah in His time, and the Ark of the Covenant, renewed with each successive Manifestation of God, it is interesting to note how the Song of God (as in Bhagavad-Gita) is sung from age to age, and how its melodies recur as they are recorded again from age to age, like the themes of country songs.

So Noah was told by God that it would rain for 40 days and nights. That is, there will be a continuous flood of Revelation from God which will fill the earth from one end to another with the waters of Divine Knowledge from the Glorious Being. This number 40 occurs again and again. There is something interesting about the number "40" in religious prophecy that is not often noticed:

1) God told Noah that it will "rain" for 40 days and 40 nights, non-stop
2) Noah waited 40 days after the flood before exiting the ark.
3) Moses was on the mountain for 40 days, not once, but twice!
4) Moses wandered in the wilderness for 40 years
5) Goliath appeared for 40 days before being killed by David.
6) Elijah strengthened by one angelic meal went 40 days to Mount Horeb where the Lord passed by and he heard the voice of God
7) Jonah warned the City of Nineveh they had 40 days until God would overthrow the city.
8) The people repented in those 40 days and God spared the city.
9) Numbers14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
10) Ezekiel29:12 And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. Ezekial had "Numerous" visions of the Glory of God (Baha'u'llah)
11) Jesus fasted for 40 days
12) Muhammad began receiving revelation at the age of 40
13) Before Mullah Husayn began his search for the Promised One, he prayed and fasted for 40 days.
14) The time between Mullah Husayn finding the Bab until the second Letter of the Living did was 40 days
15) The Bab wrote His first major work, the Qayyumu'l-Asma, in 40 days.
16) Baha'u'llah received revelation for 40 years, from 1852 until His ascension in 1892
17) Baha'u'llah's Son, 'Abdu'l-Bahá was in prison for 40 years.
18) 2 Chronicles9:30 And Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel 40 years
19) 2 Chronicles24:1 Joash was seven years old when he began to reign, and he reigned 40 years in Jerusalem
20) I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was first built on the surface of the earth?" He said, "Al-Masjid-ul-,Haram (in Mecca)." I said, "Which was built next?" He replied "The mosque of Al-Aqsa ( in Jerusalem) ." I said, "What was the period of construction between the two?" He said, Forty years." (Hadith : Bukhari Vol 4)
21) The Prophet said, "Between the two blowing of the trumpet there will be forty." The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Forty days?" I refused to reply. They said, Forty years?" I refused to reply and added: Everything of the human body will decay except the coccyx bone (of the tail) and from that bone Allah will reconstruct the whole body. (Hadith : Bukhari Vol 6)
22) The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. (Hadith : Bukhari Vol 8)
23) The form of man was attained by a drop of water Which remained forty days in the womb. If in forty years it has not attained sense and propriety it can in reality not be called a man. (Islamic Miscellaneous : Gulistan of Sa'di (Edwin Arnold tr)

Thus, as God told Noah, it "rained" from the Heaven of God's Revelation for 40 years non-stop,
from the Pen of Baha'u'llah, from 1852 through 1892, fulfilling prophecy linked to all of these Biblical accounts.
As the earth is the recipient of heavenly rain and is renewed, such is the meaning of the prophecy told in Revelation:

” I saw a new heaven and a new earth." For indeed, the earth of men's hearts who receive this heavenly outpouring is being renewed, knowledge is increasing, the One Shepherd is gradually gathering humanity together as One Fold...

So we see that from the time of Noah that this prophecy is really about the appearance of Baha'u'llah and His Revelation, which was revealed over a period of precisely 40 years.

. "Verily, all created things were immersed in the sea of purification when, on that first day of Ridván, We shed upon the whole of creation the splendours of Our most excellent Names and Our most exalted Attributes." (Kitab-i-Aqdas)

Ya Baha'ul'Abha!!!"

Also note the average time it takes a new member of the human race to develop;

"The average length of human gestation is 280 days, or 40 weeks, from the first day of the woman's last menstrual period."

Regards Tony
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
But even these other religions has spiritual beings, Archangels and such. Baha'is have their Concourse on High. But then you also have manifestations pre-existing too, don't you?

Angels and the concourse on high are all subservient to God, not gods. The Manifestations of God are not Gods in Baha'i theology. There is just One God in the Baha'i Faith.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
The NT says to beware of false Christ and then there's the Beast and Anti-Christ. So what does the NT say to look for? And what do Christians usually tell you they are looking for? Since I'm sure what you think the NT says and what they think it says are going to be different.

The NT includes Jesus's final sermon or the Olivet discourse where Jesus warns His followers about false Christs. He does this because the Christ has already come. He is the Christ. What did the Jews do. They followed false teachers and christs. Bar Kokhba was an archetypal false prophet for the Jews, that landed them in serious trouble with the Romans.

Simon bar Kokhba - Wikipedia

Jesus did not mention the beast and anti-Christ. This is all pat of the apocalypse or book of revelation. There are also references in Paul's works and John's letters.

The style of language in the Olivet discourse is also apocalyptic.

Many fundamentalist Christian's have thoroughly confused events around the end of the Jewish era/beginning of the Christian era with events surrounding the second coming. They have interpreted the symbolic verses literally.

Verses the refer to the sun being dimmed, the moon no longer shedding it light, and the stars falling from heaven along with appearances on clouds of great power are classic examples.

Matthew 24:29-30

Baha'i interpretation is based on the writings of Baha'u'llah who presents a much more plausible and coherent interpretation IMHO.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That's related to what I asked a few posts ago. What did Christ teach?

The gospels reflect well the Teachings of Christ.

He didn't write the NT. Can it be trusted.

Jesus didn't write the gospels. Yes they can be trusted to convey the Spiritual Essence of Jesus message. The gospels should not be read literally as an historical account.

One Baha'i, I believe, said the apostles were infallible, but they weren't the only ones involved in writing the NT.

The gospels were inspired by God's Unerring Spirit. We don't know for certain who wrote any of the gospels.

Of course the craziest thing they wrote, if the Baha'is are right, is that Jesus rose from the dead. Why would they write that knowing that it is them the apostles and the other believers that were the "resurrected" body of Christ?

I'm good with the resurrection of Christ. That's because I believe in the powerful symbolic message that the story conveys, not that it literally happened.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Are the Holy Books, like the Gita, the Bible, etc, distorted or only the interpretations of those books?

The Bible is to be trusted, but needs to be studied and interpreted with great care.

The origins and authenticity of the Gita are much less clear.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Thanks, I'm so glad you're still responding to Baha'i posts on this thread. Like Christians, they take your Scriptures, out of context, and make them fit into their religions as proofs of prophecies fulfilled.

For a religion that calls for religious unity, and says that all religions are one, they find ways to push people from other religions away.

Out of which context?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He claimed to be. He rose from the dead. That's hardly explained away.

Jesus also said why call me Good there is none good but God.

Jesus said not my will be done but Gods Will be done.

Jesus said I can so nothing but what the Father tells me to do.

Yes many things can not be explained away, reason is needed.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We Baha'is are all learning and still have a long way to go and although we do try as much as possible to be flexible and tolerant however we can't compromise on our basic laws or appease every fad that comes along just for the sake of popularity.

So for instance our laws are rigid and strict regarding things like homosexuality and same sex marriage because it is positively harmful for humanity even though they desire it.
.

Are you suggesting that Hinduism is a fad? Or is it homosexuality that's a fad? The animal kingdom has lots of homosexuality. Is that a fad?

How exactly is it harmful to society? Two people in a committed relationship, rather than being Baha'i' and lonely without a close human companion. seems comforting and humane to me. Better than the punishment of exclusion.

I would agree that adultery is usually harmful to a marriage, and often happens for the wrong reasons.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
This is the same as saying God is knowable in Attributes but not in Essence.

To which we agree.

No we don't. Hindus believe the essence of God can be known, In fact that's the central goal of Hinduism, the mystic precursor to moksha. I don't see how you can possibly say we agree on things when the other person doesn't agree. Doesn't it take both people to agree? If your wife wants to go to Brisbane, and you want to go to go to Darwin, it's not accurate to say 'we agree."

So unless I agree that we agree, it's not agreement at all.
 
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