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Do we need to repent of our sins now?

Magus

Active Member
Well Catholic Priests have this cycle, Rape, then Repent, then Rape, then repent, You can do what you like.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Not true. They will help witnesses out materially, but non witnesses only get their literature.

I never experienced that at the Hall and through my couple of years of talking to different witness all with the same friend bringing a new witness at a time. They always had something spiritual to give.

I mean, if that's the case, why even talk to me or even look up my religion for that matter if they were only concerned about themselves and not the spiritual welfare of others regardless of your opinions about them?
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jesus seemed to think that you do need to repent of your sins.

"The time has come," he (Jesus) said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

In my view there is just Dharma. Anything that goes against that is Adharma, but adharma can't exist but very briefly, as it goes against the natural order of everything.

No being would truly wish to stay in adharma, and eventually all will come around. We don't burn people in hell for an eternity when any crime committed can only cause temporary evil. The infinite nature of time and "God" requires that even the worst possible wrong doing will be repented for.

This isn't an excuse to do "evil" however, as the consequences for one's self and their Karma is very real and can last a very, very long time. In this view to want anyone to suffer for eternity for any crime no matter how horrible is by definition unjust.

No crime no matter how great can ever truly harm the glory of totality which will consume and destroy all illusion and adharma.

Whatever you say cultist.

You say that like there is something wrong with cults.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
According to the fateful 'slave' no. Why should we have to repent of our sins, and be forgiven if we are acquitted of them when we die?

According to the fateful 'slave', we can live as we want now, and be resurrected with a clean slate.

According to the fateful 'slave' we are not going to be judged for the way we live now, while we are alive, but for what we do "after" we are resurrected.

*** bh p. 214 pars. 2-3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
But on what basis will all be judged? According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak.

So why are the witnesses so adamant about getting people to join their cult? It's not about saving souls, because what we do now has no bearing on our salvation. We don't have to be concerned about what we do until we are resurrected, then we have to obey God's old and "new" laws.
I hope you are trying to be funny by the way you use the word 'fateful' since it should have been 'faithful.'

I'm not with the WT which you seem to be speaking about.
----------------
What a great many people do not understand about Judgment is this:
In Ezekiel the sinner is promised death; Adam was promised death - nothing less, and nothing more.(this last point is of utmost importance)

When we see that in Romans 6:7, the person who dies has his sin forgiven, it means exactly that (the above) that the sinner shall die, end of story. Forever death, is what is being talked about, not being, destroyed.

In Romans 6:23, this is said:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (ASV)​

This then is the teaching, that the sinner shall die. Those not in Christ do not get the free gift and it leaves them dead. Yes, they have no more sin, but they remain dead. They do not get the gift.

That is the teaching of scripture, not hell-fire for the sinner, or torment in hell, making that wicked person alive but tormented. No, the dead, wicked or righteous, even unrighteous, - if dead, they are no more, they are so to say asleep until even forever, or the resurrection.

The resurrection is only given those Christ finds 'worthy' of being given that gift whether temporary or not.

Thus, it is extremely important for all Christians to repent, to do their utmost to be obedient to Christ as outlined in the NT by his apostles.
Forgiveness of sin
We are all sinners. Those small everyday sins are forgiven in Christ. If a Christian sins but with a sin not unto death, he may be forgiven, but if serious, the sin shall be punished for according to its severity.
1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I John 5:16:
If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request.​

Sin that is not forgiven
The sin that is serious, committed deliberately as a practice comes to a point when it no longer is forgiven:
1 John 5:
8 He that practises sin is of the devil; for from the beginning the devil sins. To this end the Son of God has been manifested, that he might undo the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God. 10 In this are manifest the children of God and the children of the devil. Whoever does not practise righteousness is not of God, and he who does not love his brother.​

So, repentance, the living in Christ is a must. We should do what we can to be pure and avoid serious sin as a practice. Anyone may fall, but, should the person be damned, while in death they have their sin cancelled, they do not receive the gift of life. They shall remain dead, destroyed, forevermore.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
They lied.

Um...no...I believe that he lied. We don't teach much of anything this poster says. He has a somewhat twisted view of our beliefs. :facepalm:
I am thinking perhaps that an obsession with JW's may be getting the better of him....
bore.gif
Sad really.

Perhaps he just needs a :hugehug:
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The "twisted" teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses: God gives the truth only to them and if you won't/can't believe in that you will die. It won't be a natural death that you will die. You will die by the order of Jehovah and it will be forever.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
According to the fateful 'slave' no. Why should we have to repent of our sins, and be forgiven if we are acquitted of them when we die?

According to the fateful 'slave', we can live as we want now, and be resurrected with a clean slate.

According to the fateful 'slave' we are not going to be judged for the way we live now, while we are alive, but for what we do "after" we are resurrected.

*** bh p. 214 pars. 2-3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
But on what basis will all be judged? According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak.

So why are the witnesses so adamant about getting people to join their cult? It's not about saving souls, because what we do now has no bearing on our salvation. We don't have to be concerned about what we do until we are resurrected, then we have to obey God's old and "new" laws.

A lot of people who plan to get saved at Midnight die suddenly at 11:45 PM.

Remember your Creator
in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come
and the years approach when you will say,
“I find no pleasure in them”—
2 before the sun and the light
and the moon and the stars grow dark,
and the clouds return after the rain;
3 when the keepers of the house tremble,
and the strong men stoop,
when the grinders cease because they are few,
and those looking through the windows grow dim;
4 when the doors to the street are closed
and the sound of grinding fades;
when people rise up at the sound of birds,
but all their songs grow faint;
5 when people are afraid of heights
and of dangers in the streets;
when the almond tree blossoms
and the grasshopper drags itself along
and desire no longer is stirred.
Then people go to their eternal home
and mourners go about the streets.
6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Um...no...I believe that he lied. We don't teach much of anything this poster says. He has a somewhat twisted view of our beliefs. :facepalm:
I am thinking perhaps that an obsession with JW's may be getting the better of him....
bore.gif
Sad really.

Perhaps he just needs a :hugehug:

Well, I meant that those who told him that had lied to him. I didn't mean to sound like I was generalizing.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
In my view there is just Dharma. Anything that goes against that is Adharma, but adharma can't exist but very briefly, as it goes against the natural order of everything.

No being would truly wish to stay in adharma, and eventually all will come around. We don't burn people in hell for an eternity when any crime committed can only cause temporary evil. The infinite nature of time and "God" requires that even the worst possible wrong doing will be repented for.

This isn't an excuse to do "evil" however, as the consequences for one's self and their Karma is very real and can last a very, very long time. In this view to want anyone to suffer for eternity for any crime no matter how horrible is by definition unjust.

No crime no matter how great can ever truly harm the glory of totality which will consume and destroy all illusion and adharma.



You say that like there is something wrong with cults.

In your view there is just Dharma. I'm not interested in Dharma, whatever that is. I believe Jesus Christ.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I never experienced that at the Hall and through my couple of years of talking to different witness all with the same friend bringing a new witness at a time. They always had something spiritual to give.

I mean, if that's the case, why even talk to me or even look up my religion for that matter if they were only concerned about themselves and not the spiritual welfare of others regardless of your opinions about them?

Maybe this is a topic for a different thread.

My goal with this thread is to show that the witnesses, who claim to be the "only true religion" teach that we are not judged for the way we live our life "before" we die, because we are acquitted of our sins when we die, and are resurrected with a clean slate to start afresh "during" judgment day.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Maybe this is a topic for a different thread.

My goal with this thread is to show that the witnesses, who claim to be the "only true religion" teach that we are not judged for the way we live our life "before" we die,

because we are acquitted of our sins when we die,

and are resurrected with a clean slate to start afresh "during" judgment day.

I was reading JW that we ask for repentance of sins we have on earth, when we die, we will go to dust (no soul or spirits) and those dead and alive will be resurrected from the earth and/or judged on judgement day. I don't know any church that believes christ judges before people die. Usually, many teach when judgement day comes.

Also, that would make sense. If you repent your sins, you are only judged by your deeds but your inherited sins would be acquitted because of you obedience and repentance to god.

I don't know about the last part. Usually people are resurrected after they are judged. I haven't heard JW taught that but I only went twice because their services were too long.

I don't get the "one true religion" mindset from any abrahamic follower. It sounds more political than anything else.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Um...no...I believe that he lied. We don't teach much of anything this poster says. He has a somewhat twisted view of our beliefs. :facepalm:
I am thinking perhaps that an obsession with JW's may be getting the better of him....
bore.gif
Sad really.

Perhaps he just needs a...


*** bh p. 214 par. 2-p. 215 par. 1 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
During that thousand-year period, Jesus Christ will “judge the living and the dead.” (2 Timothy 4:1) “The living” will be the “great crowd” that survives Armageddon. (Revelation 7:9-17) The apostle John also saw “the dead . . . standing before the throne” of judgment. As Jesus promised, “those in the memorial tombs will hear [Christ’s] voice and come out” by means of a resurrection. (John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15) But on what basis will all be judged?
According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak. The scrolls must therefore represent God’s further requirements. To live forever, both Armageddon survivors and resurrected ones will have to obey God’s commandments, including whatever new requirements Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years. Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.
Judgment Day will give billions of people their first opportunity to learn about God’s will and to conform to it.
This means that a large-scale educational work will take place. Indeed, ‘the inhabitants of the land will learn about righteousness.’ (Isaiah 26:9) However, not all will be willing to conform to God’s will. Isaiah 26:10 says: “Even if the wicked is shown favor, he will not learn righteousness. Even in the land of uprightness he will act wickedly, and he will not see the majesty of Jehovah.” These wicked ones will be put to death permanently during Judgment Day.—Isaiah 65:20.

That quote comes from the witnesses "What Does the Bible Really Teach" book.

"The apostle John also saw “the dead . . . standing before the throne” of judgment. As Jesus promised, “those in the memorial tombs will hear [Christ’s] voice and come out” by means of a resurrection."

The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7)

"Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak."

Nothing twisted about that!
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I was reading JW that we ask for repentance of sins we have on earth, when we die, we will go to dust (no soul or spirits) and those dead and alive will be resurrected from the earth and/or judged on judgement day. I don't know any church that believes christ judges before people die. Usually, many teach when judgement day comes.

Also, that would make sense. If you repent your sins, you are only judged by your deeds but your inherited sins would be acquitted because of you obedience and repentance to god.

I don't know about the last part. Usually people are resurrected after they are judged. I haven't heard JW taught that but I only went twice because their services were too long.

I don't get the "one true religion" mindset from any abrahamic follower. It sounds more political than anything else.

They teach that people won't be judged for "what they did" before they die. They aren't teaching about inherited sin, but about the way one lives while alive.

"Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died."

Either way, God requires a perfect, spotless sacrifice for sin, there is now way He would accept a humans death as a sacrifice for sin. The witnesses teach they are imperfect, sinful people, God will not accept an imperfect sacrifice for sin.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
According to the fateful 'slave' no. Why should we have to repent of our sins, and be forgiven if we are acquitted of them when we die?

I'm assuming repentance has to do with changing one's mind to follow god.

The people were assured that they could return to Jehovah and would be shown mercy if they gave evidence of heartfelt repentance.

Let us consider four practical lessons: (1) True repentance is manifested by deeds, not just words; (2) sacrifices alone do not please God; (3) Jehovah feels hurt when his worshippers turn away from him; and (4) to reap what is good, we must sow what is good.
JehovahWitness.org

You're repenting your sins to be in union with god in this life. I was told that there would be a "new earth" like the Garden of Eden. However, that is why many people repent and keep repenting. They do so to keep that relationship with god. Whether one is acquitted from sins in the afterlife, in my opinion, is not the point of repentance. We don't know.

According to the fateful 'slave', we can live as we want now, and be resurrected with a clean slate.

They do believe in judgement, though. Why would one have judgement if they are acquitted from sins in the afterlife. Judgement in the bible focuses on who will be with god in the afterlife and who will not. In order to do that, one repents now, builds that relationship, and as a result, their sins are acquitted, and they are not judged by their faith but by their deeds (hence why deeds are mentioned in the JW)

So why are the witnesses so adamant about getting people to join their cult?

It's not about saving souls, because what we do now has no bearing on our salvation. We don't have to be concerned about what we do until we are resurrected, then we have to obey God's old and "new" laws.

My friends told me they wanted me (not forced me) to come to god because through faith in god, I receive no sickness in the afterlife. I will live forever in love and peace with no aches and hardship. As so also explained to children in the Watchtower magazine.

The part after the question, I don't know if that's what you're saying JW teaches or what you believe. From Catholicism and what I read and know of JW (sorry, JW, had to put you two together), they say: The people were assured that they could return to Jehovah and would be shown mercy if they gave evidence of heartfelt repentance
"True repentance is manifested by deeds, not just words " (Above) Catholics and JW agree on a lot of stuff they just don't really see it unfortunately.

Also, in scripture it does say christians will be judged by your deeds. Everything is about what you do and your vows not what you believe.

They teach that people won't be judged for "what they did" before they die. They aren't teaching about inherited sin, but about the way one lives while alive.

It does not make sense to judge people for what they did before they die. If that be the case, there is no reason to repent. Judgement comes after. Also inherited sin is the same as you were talking about they believe they are corrupted or dirty (or something you said). Denominations use different words for the same thing.

Either way, God requires a perfect, spotless sacrifice for sin, there is now way He would accept a humans death as a sacrifice for sin. The witnesses teach they are imperfect, sinful people, God will not accept an imperfect sacrifice for sin.

I don't get how this is against JW. Witnesses teach they are imperfect (aka inherited sin to some). He doesn't accept an imperfect sacrifice (a blemished lamb, for example), so one repents and follows god with deeds not just words. When one dies, they sleep until judgement day. People are judge for their deeds/sins/transgressions. People who do not go to god do not live forever but actually die. Those who score an A on god's test live on a new earth or new eden. @Deeje That's how I interpreted it. I never read all the watchtowers. Deeje would have to correct me.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Also, in scripture it does say christians will be judged by your deeds.

Exactly, the Bible says we will be judged for our deeds, I agree 100%. The witnesses however, teach that we will NOT be judged for our deeds while alive, but for our deeds "during" judgment day.

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died.

*** bh p. 215 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
When one dies, they sleep until judgement day. People are judge for their deeds/sins/transgressions.

Correct, they teach that when one dies, they sleep until judgment day. Then they are resurrected with a "clean slate" having been acquitted of their sins they committed before they died by "their' death. They won't be judged for what they did before they died, but for what they do "after" they are resurrected during judgment day.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
You're repenting your sins to be in union with god in this life.

Just repenting doesn't bring us into union with God, we need to be forgiven of our sins.

1 John 1:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If one confesses sin now, they are forgiven. If we don't, we will be judged for those sins on judgment day.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I don't get how this is against JW. Witnesses teach they are imperfect (aka inherited sin to some). He doesn't accept an imperfect sacrifice (a blemished lamb, for example), so one repents and follows god with deeds not just words.

Because they teach that by the death of the imperfect human, the person is acquitted from their sins.

So one is forgiven "before" one dies, not acquitted by an imperfect death!
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Correct, they teach that when one dies, they sleep until judgment day. Then they are resurrected with a "clean slate" having been acquitted of their sins they committed before they died by "their' death. They won't be judged for what they did before they died, but for what they do "after" they are resurrected during judgment day.

This is what JW believe as far as I know, they aren't judged before but after (as you quoted), so I'm confused with what you're disagreeing with?
 
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