• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Support for creationism in US at all time low

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
To think that one is a part -- albeit a small part perhaps -- of a cosmic battle between good and evil that will very soon come to a head in an apocalypse is far more emotionally satisfying to people who lives are otherwise mundane and dreary than is the notion that changing diapers and making mortgage payments are the high points of their day and month.
I never thought of it that way. Wonderful insight.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
1 Timothy 4:1 (NASB95)

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

No Christian can logically deny that is happening today.
When writing a book of religion, it's not exactly going out on a limb to predict "Someday, people will stop believing all this stuff". The history of religions show it's inevitable.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
If this situation hadn't come about, the prophesied end couldn't come. (Yeah, I know, just the ramblings of a delusional believer)

If this were a novel, you would not enjoy the ending, but I shall. Very soon, religion shall be attacked, but to what extend I do not know.
If any of that is true, one has to wonder.......why then do Christian creationists spend so much time and effort trying to counteract this prophesy? If "the end" is inevitable and is going to be peaches and cream for you and eventually all humanity, why not hasten it?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It wouldn't have mattered, as Noah doesn't exactly build an Ark meant for a ton of people AND everything else plus the kitchen sink. What's the point of accepting a ticket to a sold-out concert?

"The ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high (133.5 m × 22.3 m × 13.4 m; 437 ft 6 in. × 72 ft 11 in. × 43 ft 9 in.). It could have had about 0.9 ha (2.2 acres) of floor space. The three floors plus the wide roof span probably required, in addition to the ‘compartment’ divisions, the use of some wooden columns and beams to support the weight, as well as to give the structure necessary stability. Although the ark was caulked with tar, there would also be need for careful fitting of the timbers to ensure a reasonably watertight construction.—Genesis 6:13-16 "

So, you see there was enough room for many more people. The whole top floor was for the humans. Considering it was about the size of the Queen Mary, there was plenty of room for more passengers.....but no one wanted a ticket.
confused.gif


So lots of people are going through a really wide gate ...?

No, actually, its more like a turnstile....one precious life at a time. Each one a fully qualified minister educated in the word of God and able to become a teacher of others. We believe that is the way Jesus approached his ministry.
128fs318181.gif
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This ought to be really useful, then.

But unfortunately you can only tell what God's chosen to bless, after the event.

Very like horseracing.

That is true to an extent....prophesy is only fully discernible in all its features with the benefit of hindsight. But Jesus said to "keep on the watch", (Matthew 24:32-34; 42-44) and he also said to look for the 'sign' (a series of events) he said would identify this period he called the "end of the age" and associated with his return. (Matthew 24:3-14) I believe the signs are all there and have been unfolding gradually over the last 100 years....only a couple of things are yet to take place. I see this as happening according to God's timing of events, not ours.
 
Last edited:

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"The ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high (133.5 m × 22.3 m × 13.4 m; 437 ft 6 in. × 72 ft 11 in. × 43 ft 9 in.). It could have had about 0.9 ha (2.2 acres) of floor space.
Don't forget that it also had to carry enough food to feed each set of animals FOR A YEAR.

That's a LOT of chaff and biltong. The elephants alone will be on starvation rations at 90 kg a day each (total 66 tonnes pa. and without modern compression and stacking that's an awful lot of volume). And don't I recall that all the dinosaurs had to be enarked as well?
 
Last edited:

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Don't forget that it also had to carry enough food to feed each set of animals FOR A YEAR.

That's a LOT of chaff and biltong. The elephants alone will be on starvation rations at 90 kg a day each (total 66 tonnes pa. and without modern compression and stacking that's an awful lot of volume). And don't I recall that all the dinosaurs had to be enarked as well?
That's the fascinating thing about the whole flood story......you can pick any number of subjects to debunk it. The size of the boat, the number of animals, the care of the animals, the fate of organisms that weren't aboard, diseases, parasites, the lack of geological evidence, the geological evidence that contradicts it, the source of the water, the location of the water now, the lack of genetic evidence, and on and on and on.

Simply put, young-earth floodism is about on par with flat-earth geocentrism on the absurdity scale.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
When writing a book of religion, it's not exactly going out on a limb to predict "Someday, people will stop believing all this stuff". The history of religions show it's inevitable.

The Apostles prophesied a lot more than that and that isn't even accurate. Most people won't believe it, not all people.

What about the prophecy concerning Israel becoming a nation again never to be conquered again? Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan have all fallen short. They got whipped in 6 days one time.

But I guess those were just lucky picks. :rolleyes:
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
The Apostles prophesied a lot more than that and that isn't even accurate. Most people won't believe it, not all people.
Again, not exactly going out on a limb to predict that as time goes on, fewer people will believe.

What about the prophecy concerning Israel becoming a nation again never to be conquered again?
Gee, a Jewish book where Jews predict that one day they will have a country again. Who would of thunk?
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Again, not exactly going out on a limb to predict that as time goes on, fewer people will believe.


Gee, a Jewish book where Jews predict that one day they will have a country again. Who would of thunk?

It's just blind luck that all of their neighbors attacked them at the same time and Israel stomped them in 6 days. Sure it is.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Don't forget that it also had to carry enough food to feed each set of animals FOR A YEAR.

That's a LOT of chaff and biltong. The elephants alone will be on starvation rations at 90 kg a day each (total 66 tonnes pa. and without modern compression and stacking that's an awful lot of volume). And don't I recall that all the dinosaurs had to be enarked as well?

Maybe dino steaks were used to feed the tigers, and that's actually why they ended up extinct?

'Hey, honey, we're all out of Triceratops burgers. You okay if I kill off the T-Rex? It will help the smell...'
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Luck had nothing to do with it.
Read the actual military history. It's fascinating. Pre-emptive action and the disorganization and complacency of it's neighbours were what led to victory. Not luck.

It couldn't possibly have been God, I guess. Wait a minute, maybe it could have...
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
If any of that is true, one has to wonder.......why then do Christian creationists spend so much time and effort trying to counteract this prophesy? If "the end" is inevitable and is going to be peaches and cream for you and eventually all humanity, why not hasten it?
You need to have the perspective of the whole, and also of the individual - to understand what is going on, for you and for the world. The two do not carry the same message.
Individually
Each Christian has the responsibility to live a holy life in Christ avoiding adultery, fornication, and what not. (as if this generally happens) This is what our judgment gets based on. In this then you have a lot of misbehavior by even clergy in sexual misdeeds. Obviously, in the Christian teachings (Bible, not church) a lot of these people are going to be damned, though their churches sweep it under the carpet and tell them they are forgiven. While our salvation doesn't depend on works of the Mosaic Law, it does depend on works of faith, good works, and purity in Christ.

The world, and this question
The study is large and very interesting. There are prophecies regarding Babylon, and Babylon the Great. We see how the world that counted in this context since Christ - was Europe. The Roman empire spread its tentacles all the way up north, only to be replaced slowly by splinter nations and, most importantly, by the now not so spiritual Christian powers of Rome. Powers that even supplanted the pagan religions of the Vikings and those on the British Isles, Russia, the works.

The Pope became a secular power that ruled even kings. The power of the church at some point might nearly be said to be complete and total during some time of the ascend into our present time.
Totalitarian impossibility
In this state of affairs where the church's power reached all the way to kings and to paupers in their homes making them go to church or else (look at how in Europe, in nearly every village of every country, Scandinavia & everywhere, a church stands guard). Under such power, the churches, even having changed with the Protestants, could suffer no attack from anywhere since they were the de-facto power in all of Europe.
the prophecy of waters
Here the prophecy was that God's agent would cause the waters (= peoples) to be eroded away from Babylon the Great (churches, or Catholic church) so that the Great Cyrus (Christ Jesus) could conquer and come. This began to be fulfilled with Darwin. Since that time, the power of the churches has greatly waned, nearly died out presently. They can no longer hide without repercussions their evil misuse of children, etc.
the attack
The prophecy then is that soon, (Revelation) the nations shall attack the religious paramours of theirs formerly held so dear and totally destroy her (the churches). The nations are likened to beasts who tear up this religious harlot. However, when they attack religion they do not care what religion, what religious people, they attack. Like mindless beasts they just want to eat meat.
attack prelude to defense
When God sees that religion is attacked, that is OK, but when they attack his servants among the religious, this is not OK. Thus, the end begins and God attacks the nations of the world. The end has begun.

winding up
So, without evolution and Darwin, there could have been no weakening of the powers of the church; without this, there can be no attack on religion, without an attack, there will be no defense from God, no end of the world.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It couldn't possibly have been God, I guess. Wait a minute, maybe it could have...

Based on what? That Israeli military strategy decided to get on the front foot and attack Arab nations before they were invaded?

That's smart (and ruthless) military strategy, not close adherence to theology.
Apart from your own bias, why do you see it different? How much study of this have you actually done? I've had a possibly unhealthy interest in military strategy since I was a kid, and nothing about the 6 day war screams 'miracle'.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Don't forget that it also had to carry enough food to feed each set of animals FOR A YEAR.

That's a LOT of chaff and biltong. The elephants alone will be on starvation rations at 90 kg a day each (total 66 tonnes pa. and without modern compression and stacking that's an awful lot of volume).

Well, seeing as how the flood was all God's doing and he was the one prescribing all the details to Noah, I believe that the ark stocked enough food for all on board. And since it was God who brought the animals to Noah, he was the one who chose them.

I seem to recall a time when, during a severe famine, Elijah asked a poor widow to make him a small piece of bread with the last flour and oil that she had left. Since it was God's prophet who asked and she did as he requested, the oil and the flour never ran out until the famine was over, ensuring that the widow and her son always had something to eat.

Who is to say that there was no divine intervention in the case of the animals on the ark? We just don't know.....can you say with any certainty that God could not have supplied extra food if he chose to? Didn't Jesus feed 5,000 people with just two loaves of bread and a few small fish? Multiplying what he had was no trouble at all for him. There were even 12 baskets of leftovers!
91.gif


I am amazed that humans want to put limitations on the Creator so that they can 'prove' to themselves that he can't carry out what he has spoken. He is not human.....and he has no such limitations.

And don't I recall that all the dinosaurs had to be enarked as well?

Since science has demonstrated beyond doubt that humans and dinosaurs never inhabited the earth at the same time, (I am not a YEC) it is safe to say that there were no dinosaurs on the ark. The only "monsters" described in Genesis were in the ocean and they didn't need to occupy space on board a vessel.
images

Many species were long extinct by the time of man's creation...so apparently, God chose the creatures he wanted to inhabit the earth, with humans as their caretakers.
 
Last edited:

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I seem to recall a time when, during a severe famine, Elijah asked a poor widow to make him a small piece of bread with the last flour and oil that she had left. Since it was God's prophet who asked and she did as he requested, the oil and the flour never ran out until the famine was over, ensuring that the widow and her son always had something to eat.
That too sounds wonderfully useful.

How's it done, exactly? What did Elijah or the lady or someone else do to cause this excellent effect? I need to develop my kitchen skills, and that seems a great place to start.
 
Top