Are you Lucian's sock-puppet?
And before you start pointing fingers for using one religion to establish another, you might want think about the history of your own.
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Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?
- Thread starter Lucian Hodoboc
- Start date
And before you start pointing fingers for using one religion to establish another, you might want think about the history of your own.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
I know my own religion, there is now where in the new Testament that Christ Jesus promotes the killing of people, just because they may believe different.
What does that have to do with anything I've posted?
Ok so according to you that is a future prophecy of Daniel pbuh, and as False Messiah has not sat in the Temple yet, can't apply to anyone person or group of people.
So your God said in Isaiah 42, He would send His Servant from the Desert dwelling people of Ishmael pbuh, but now you think in choosing Muhammad pbuh, He deceived you?
Saul come in the name of Christ, he was a self appointed apostle, came from the Desert on the outskirts of Damascus, claimed to have spoken to God in a locked room, (prison cell) and performed wonders and miracles. He also abolished the Law of Moses and pinned Salvation to the empty cross. James and Peter both warned against him, claiming he was a FALSE teacher. Saul is responsible for the majority of the NT, with the true followers of Jesus pbuh sidelined and persecuted under Roman occupation. The same Romans who adopted Saul's New Religion.
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke 19:27
According to you Jesus pbuh is the god of the Torah, and as such commands disbelievers to be killed, including unruly children. Let me know if you need the verses. The Catholic Church likely used such passages to brutally murder Christian and non Christians alike for Centuries.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Yes that is right, the false Messiah will come in the future and enter the temple and claim to be God. The question is, how will you know who the false Messiah is and who the real Messiah is.
Will you be wise to know. The false Messiah will have the power to call down fire out of heaven and will have the power to have the dead to come alive again.
The false Messiah will do things that will make you questioned your own belief system. Your religion.how will you know between the false and the real Messiah ?
Obviously to be accepted as King of the Jews and take his seat in the Temple, he will not be a Muslim or Christian. The majority of people will be deceived by him, from all Religions, as he will come in a great time of need and offer answers to conflicts and issues plaguing mankind.
Hudhaifa reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “I know what the False Messiah will have with him. He will have two flowing rivers, one that appears to be clear water and another that appears to be burning fire. If one of you see that, let him go to the river of fire, close his eyes, and drink from it, for it will be cool water. The False Messiah has one blind eye, with a later of thick skin over it, and across his eyes is written the word of unbelief that every believer will read, whether he can read or not.”
In another narration, the Prophet said, “He will have paradise and fire with him. His fire is Paradise, and his paradise is Hellfire.”
Source: Sahih Muslim 2934
Tammie
Member
The real Quran exists only in the “Arabic” language, there are many multitudes of translations. Most Muslims consider translations to be lower than the original Arabic. Not one of these translations come close to capturing what the original said. And some are more problematic than others, they are so inaccurate or unfaithful to the original verses.
Evidence has been gathered from North & South Arabia that Moon-god worship was active in Mohammed's day. While the Moon-god was called “Sin”, his title was called “alilah” shortened in pre-Islamic times. Mohammed himself approved of the worship of three goddesses, the three daughters of the Moon-god – al-Uzza (Venus), al-Lat (Crescent) and Manat (fate) (Surah 53:19-20).
Mohammed was a theif and robbed caravans at Ramadan (Ibn Hisham pp.281-) Mohammed received 20% of all stolen property (Koran 8:41) He killed an estimated 3000 people, including beheading Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina in 627 A.D. (Surah 93:7, and Quran 47:21) says that Mohammed was “lost”. There were so many other things that he did, that were contrary to the Quran - like...had 16 wives...instead of four (Koran 4:3,24; 5:89; 23:5 and so on). Examine, if you will, what all happened with his daughter Fatima.
In the Koran about Jesus....chapter 3 verses 45-55, there are 10 points that the Koran makes about Jesus. The first thing it says in Arabic is Word of God, the second thing is Spirit of God, and the third is Jesus Christ. It also says that Jesus spoke when he was two years old. Then he created a live bird with mud, when he breathed into it it, it became alive. So Jesus gave the bird life. It also says he healed a man that was blind and had leprosy, etc. Curiously, it says that he gave life to dead people and that Jesus went to heaven an he is still alive and will come again.
So, what does the Koran say about Mohammed? In the Koran Mohammed is not the Word of God, Spirit of God, nor did he ever cure anyone or give life to the dead. He died. According to Islam, he himself is not alive now and will not come back.
I will not deny that even the Bible has transliteration over transliteration until the truth and meaning have been changed. So those that want to find the truth really have to search for it. This is why there is a “Great Falling Away”. There is a famine from the truth. For me though, the Word of God (Bible) is the truth.
Evidence has been gathered from North & South Arabia that Moon-god worship was active in Mohammed's day. While the Moon-god was called “Sin”, his title was called “alilah” shortened in pre-Islamic times. Mohammed himself approved of the worship of three goddesses, the three daughters of the Moon-god – al-Uzza (Venus), al-Lat (Crescent) and Manat (fate) (Surah 53:19-20).
Mohammed was a theif and robbed caravans at Ramadan (Ibn Hisham pp.281-) Mohammed received 20% of all stolen property (Koran 8:41) He killed an estimated 3000 people, including beheading Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina in 627 A.D. (Surah 93:7, and Quran 47:21) says that Mohammed was “lost”. There were so many other things that he did, that were contrary to the Quran - like...had 16 wives...instead of four (Koran 4:3,24; 5:89; 23:5 and so on). Examine, if you will, what all happened with his daughter Fatima.
In the Koran about Jesus....chapter 3 verses 45-55, there are 10 points that the Koran makes about Jesus. The first thing it says in Arabic is Word of God, the second thing is Spirit of God, and the third is Jesus Christ. It also says that Jesus spoke when he was two years old. Then he created a live bird with mud, when he breathed into it it, it became alive. So Jesus gave the bird life. It also says he healed a man that was blind and had leprosy, etc. Curiously, it says that he gave life to dead people and that Jesus went to heaven an he is still alive and will come again.
So, what does the Koran say about Mohammed? In the Koran Mohammed is not the Word of God, Spirit of God, nor did he ever cure anyone or give life to the dead. He died. According to Islam, he himself is not alive now and will not come back.
I will not deny that even the Bible has transliteration over transliteration until the truth and meaning have been changed. So those that want to find the truth really have to search for it. This is why there is a “Great Falling Away”. There is a famine from the truth. For me though, the Word of God (Bible) is the truth.
90% of the Qur'an can be read in any language, the verses of contention require Scholarly input, or you could just read several translations to get a excellent grasp of the meaning. There are sites that list 50+ translations side by side.
Arab speaking Jews and Christians also call God, Allah, as did Aramaic speaking Jesus pbuh, (Elahi). Even the Hindus know of Allah the Most High. Surah 53 goes on to explain, these are nothing but idols and wishful thinking on the part of the Pagans.
Ibn Hisham is repeating the works of the Son of Isaac, also known as Ibn Ishaq. Ishaq's Grandfather was a Christian who was enslaved by the Muslims. Ibn Ishaq courted controversy by fabricating stories and was exiled from the land. His peers said, 70% of his work was unreliable. The figures of 800 beheaded, poets beheaded, women torn to bits and other ghastly acts are some of the stories he records. Furthermore his original work doesn't exist, what we have are what his students record, and later compiled by Al Tabari, in which he writes:
“This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I have merely reported it as it was reported to me.”
Basically repeating hearsay. Even the well known anti Islamic writer Robert Spencer says in his book, The Truth about Muhammad,
"However, Ibn Ishaq's life of Muhammad is so unashamedly hagiographical that its accuracy is questionable." (Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25)
Despite his negative opinion regarding Ibn Ishaq, out of the 400 footnotes of Robert Spencer's book, 120 footnote refer to fabricated stories from Ibn Ishaq's book. Because Robert Spencer hates Islam so much that he is willing to present these stories as if they are true, even though he knows that their source is unreliable.
Christians like you continue to promote false stories in the misguided belief, Allah swt will not hold you to account for bearing false witness.
More or less correct.
Elijah and Enoch are not dead either. When the Qur'an says Jesus pbuh is the Word and Spirit of God, so are we. Every single Human being is both Spirit and Word of God. If Jesus pbuh being born without a Father somehow makes him divine, then know History shows several Prophets/Messengers were born without male intervention too. Adam pbuh had no Father or Mother, does that make him a greater god than Jesus pbuh?
The 1611 KJV translation is nothing like the Bible you have today. The 4th Century Bible is nothing like the 1611 KJV. God alone knows what the original Gospels looked like in the First Century. The true believers of Jesus pbuh were Torah observant and had their own Scriptures. They regarded Saul as a deceiver who slipped into the early Church. Forget great falling away, Christianity is cursed by God for making up the Religion and attributing it to God.
Lucian Hodoboc
Member
Tammie
Member
I apologize to Muslim-UK for not replying back so quickly, but work took me away for the day, Upon my return, when I saw all that I needed to reply too, I kind-of-wished I could have done it sooner.
Muslim=UK said: Arab speaking Jews and Christians also call God, Allah, as did Aramaic speaking Jesus pbuh, (Elahi). Even the Hindus know of Allah the Most High. Surah 53 goes on to explain, these are nothing but idols and wishful thinking on the part of the Pagans.
If Christians call God Allah, it is because they do not know who God is, If they were told that your god (Allah) does not have a Son, they would know that they have been deceived into believing that one god fits all. Only in your Koran has Jesus called him Allah, in the bible he calls him Father as it should be from a Son. Hindus may know of Allah, but they do not believe in him as you do either.
Muslim-UK said: "However, Ibn Ishaq's life of Muhammad is so unashamedly hagiographical that its accuracy is questionable." (Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25)
The only thing I quoted Ibn Isham's take of Muhammed life on pp.281 is the part that he was a thief and robbed caravans at Ramadan. So if he did not rob from the caravans at Ramadan, where did he steel from? The Koran 8:41 says he kept 20% of all stolen property. Other scholars that have researched the life of Muhammed have not only found most of these things to be true, but much more.
If anyone has questions to the life of Muhammed, they should research this for themselves. For myself, I've learned more than I want to know..
When I said that the Koran says this about Jesus....
"In the Koran about Jesus....chapter 3 verses 45-55, there are 10 points that the Koran makes about Jesus. The first thing it says in Arabic is that he is the Word of God, the second thing is Spirit of God, and the third is that his name is Jesus Christ. It also says that Jesus spoke when he was two years old. Later, he created a live bird with mud, and when he breathed into it, it became alive. So Jesus gave the bird life. It also says he healed a man that was blind and one that had leprosy, etc. Curiously, it says that he gave life to dead people and that Jesus went to heaven an he is still alive and will come again".
Muslim-UK said: More or less correct
When I said: So, what does the Koran say about Mohammed? In the Koran Mohammed is not the Word of God, Spirit of God, nor did he ever cure anyone or give life to the dead. He died. According to Islam, he himself is not alive now and will not come back.
Muslim-UK said: Elijah and Enoch are not dead either. When the Qur'an says Jesus pbuh is the Word and Spirit of God, so are we. Every single Human being is both Spirit and Word of God. If Jesus pbuh being born without a Father somehow makes him divine, then know History shows several Prophets/Messengers were born without male intervention too. Adam pbuh had no Father or Mother, does that make him a greater god than Jesus pbuh?
The bible says that Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and that “Enoch was translated that he should not see death. (Hebrews 11:5)
There are 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one! The throne of God is in the 3rd heaven, where Christ says that no man has ascended to, but himself . (John 3:13)
The First Heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25; 34:20, Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, “fowls also of the air” with Genesis 7:23, “fowl of the heaven” The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'
Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.
If Elijah was still in heaven, why did he write a letter to the king and tell him how he was going to die about 8-10 years later. (2 Chronicles 21:12-15)
Elijah died, but the bible does not tell us how or when.
As for Enoch, the bible does tell us that he died,
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:13 -These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
...that Enoch should not see death, he was talking of him being in the first resurrection, where death has no power over him, In other words, he would have eternal life, but that promise of the first resurrection has not happened yet.
Those who believe in his Son (Jesus/Yeshua) are also translated.
Colossians 1:13- Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Regarding Jesus not having a Father.....wrong again!
Luke 10:22 - All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
John 8:19 - Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Regarding asking if Adam is greater than Jesus because he has no Father or Mother...
The answer is: not unless you have a reprobate mind and you worship the creation more than the Creator.
Muslim-UK said: The 1611 KJV translation is nothing like the Bible you have today. The 4th Century Bible is nothing like the 1611 KJV. God alone knows what the original Gospels looked like in the First Century. The true believers of Jesus pbuh were Torah observant and had their own Scriptures. They regarded Saul as a deceiver who slipped into the early Church. Forget great falling away, Christianity is cursed by God for making up the Religion and attributing it to God.
From as many translations that you say that you have, ( “There are sites that list 50+ translations side by side. is no different”) If there are no differences than why have that many translations, especially since you still have to inquire from a scholar what is said?
Being older doesn't mean it's the truth, it just means that it is older For the Torah (meaning the first five books), written in Hebrew, it is the translation of the bible that we have, I have studied each letter of the Hebrew Alephbet and even have read from it. The translations are not perfect, but the Word of God is.
Upon Conclusion: this is just one more reason why Christianity and Islam will ever reach a consensus which is what the question was in the beginning, Now we know.
Muslim=UK said: Arab speaking Jews and Christians also call God, Allah, as did Aramaic speaking Jesus pbuh, (Elahi). Even the Hindus know of Allah the Most High. Surah 53 goes on to explain, these are nothing but idols and wishful thinking on the part of the Pagans.
If Christians call God Allah, it is because they do not know who God is, If they were told that your god (Allah) does not have a Son, they would know that they have been deceived into believing that one god fits all. Only in your Koran has Jesus called him Allah, in the bible he calls him Father as it should be from a Son. Hindus may know of Allah, but they do not believe in him as you do either.
Muslim-UK said: "However, Ibn Ishaq's life of Muhammad is so unashamedly hagiographical that its accuracy is questionable." (Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25)
The only thing I quoted Ibn Isham's take of Muhammed life on pp.281 is the part that he was a thief and robbed caravans at Ramadan. So if he did not rob from the caravans at Ramadan, where did he steel from? The Koran 8:41 says he kept 20% of all stolen property. Other scholars that have researched the life of Muhammed have not only found most of these things to be true, but much more.
If anyone has questions to the life of Muhammed, they should research this for themselves. For myself, I've learned more than I want to know..
When I said that the Koran says this about Jesus....
"In the Koran about Jesus....chapter 3 verses 45-55, there are 10 points that the Koran makes about Jesus. The first thing it says in Arabic is that he is the Word of God, the second thing is Spirit of God, and the third is that his name is Jesus Christ. It also says that Jesus spoke when he was two years old. Later, he created a live bird with mud, and when he breathed into it, it became alive. So Jesus gave the bird life. It also says he healed a man that was blind and one that had leprosy, etc. Curiously, it says that he gave life to dead people and that Jesus went to heaven an he is still alive and will come again".
Muslim-UK said: More or less correct
When I said: So, what does the Koran say about Mohammed? In the Koran Mohammed is not the Word of God, Spirit of God, nor did he ever cure anyone or give life to the dead. He died. According to Islam, he himself is not alive now and will not come back.
Muslim-UK said: Elijah and Enoch are not dead either. When the Qur'an says Jesus pbuh is the Word and Spirit of God, so are we. Every single Human being is both Spirit and Word of God. If Jesus pbuh being born without a Father somehow makes him divine, then know History shows several Prophets/Messengers were born without male intervention too. Adam pbuh had no Father or Mother, does that make him a greater god than Jesus pbuh?
The bible says that Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and that “Enoch was translated that he should not see death. (Hebrews 11:5)
There are 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one! The throne of God is in the 3rd heaven, where Christ says that no man has ascended to, but himself . (John 3:13)
The First Heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25; 34:20, Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, “fowls also of the air” with Genesis 7:23, “fowl of the heaven” The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'
Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.
If Elijah was still in heaven, why did he write a letter to the king and tell him how he was going to die about 8-10 years later. (2 Chronicles 21:12-15)
Elijah died, but the bible does not tell us how or when.
As for Enoch, the bible does tell us that he died,
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:13 -These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
...that Enoch should not see death, he was talking of him being in the first resurrection, where death has no power over him, In other words, he would have eternal life, but that promise of the first resurrection has not happened yet.
Those who believe in his Son (Jesus/Yeshua) are also translated.
Colossians 1:13- Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Regarding Jesus not having a Father.....wrong again!
Luke 10:22 - All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
John 8:19 - Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Regarding asking if Adam is greater than Jesus because he has no Father or Mother...
The answer is: not unless you have a reprobate mind and you worship the creation more than the Creator.
Muslim-UK said: The 1611 KJV translation is nothing like the Bible you have today. The 4th Century Bible is nothing like the 1611 KJV. God alone knows what the original Gospels looked like in the First Century. The true believers of Jesus pbuh were Torah observant and had their own Scriptures. They regarded Saul as a deceiver who slipped into the early Church. Forget great falling away, Christianity is cursed by God for making up the Religion and attributing it to God.
From as many translations that you say that you have, ( “There are sites that list 50+ translations side by side. is no different”) If there are no differences than why have that many translations, especially since you still have to inquire from a scholar what is said?
Being older doesn't mean it's the truth, it just means that it is older For the Torah (meaning the first five books), written in Hebrew, it is the translation of the bible that we have, I have studied each letter of the Hebrew Alephbet and even have read from it. The translations are not perfect, but the Word of God is.
Upon Conclusion: this is just one more reason why Christianity and Islam will ever reach a consensus which is what the question was in the beginning, Now we know.
np
Jesus pbu in the Aramaic NT called Him Elahi, other translations show AaLah.
Call Him what you like, but there is Only One God who created the Universe and everything within it.
Correct he robbed caravans from the same people who seized the homes and property of the believers, from the same people who imposed a economic blockade to starve and isolate the Muslims.
You learn from discredited sources, but that's a matter for you and your soul.
Actually there are Seven Heavens, Jesus pbuh is with John the Baptist pbuh in the Second Heaven.
How would Elijah have known what God had in store for him when he wrote the letter?
Where's Saul's proof for Enoch's death?
He doesn't have a biological father, we now he regarded God as his spiritual father, after all we are ALL children of God.
Funny that you, as a man worshipping Christian should say that.
The world of difference is the original Arabic remains unchanged. You can use a decent Arabic Lexicon for contentious words along with several translations: Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane
You can refer to a non Muslim Scholar who has dedicated his life to studying the Arabic language as used in the 7th Century. You can get along fine without one, but haters like to cite certain verses that need Scholarly input.
Islam is simple; Worship God alone, establish the prayer, be kind, give in charity, observe the month of fasting is you are able, perform the hajj, again if you are able. Stay away from tat which is harmful, drink, drugs, adultery, interest bearing debt etc. Remember God in both the Good and Bad times.
Any Historian will tell you, the older the more reliable, the more witnesses, the better. People who think 4th Century Greek Philosophers honoured a First Century Jewish Prophet and preserved his message are deluding themselves.
Christianity is the odd one out of the 3 Abrahamic Religions. God does not have a son in Judaism or Islam. This alien concept comes from the Pagan West.
Tammie
Member
Again, sorry for the delay Muslim-UK....there are so many things that need to be done in a day...that I am not always able to reply so quickly.
Muslim-UK said: Jesus pbu in the Aramaic NT called Him Elahi, other translations show AaLah.
Rather or not in the Aramaic Language he is called that, does not change the fact that Allah has no Son. For a Christian to believe in him knowing this, they would no longer be Christians, but rather “ians without Christ.
Muslim-UK said: Call Him what you like, but there is Only One God who created the Universe and everything within it.
I agree with you 100% - that God is One and the only One.
The Holy Spirit was not a Father until he had a Son
The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son, because the Son was conceived by the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit draws you to Christ, and Christ reveals who the Father is.
Not a Trinity- but One in His Holy Spirit
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 14:6 - Christ saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Luke 10:22 - All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
2 John 1:9 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Muslim-UK said: Correct he robbed caravans from the same people who seized the homes and property of the believers, from the same people who imposed a economic blockade to starve and isolate the Muslims.
He sounds like Peter Pan to me, but the fact that he kept 20% of stolen property, meant that it was never his property to begin with, regardless of what reason he had for doing it. Nor did he testify that Allah told him to do this.
Muslim-UK said: You learn from discredited sources, but that's a matter for you and your soul.
There are many reasons why anyone with questions to Muhammad's Life -should research these things for themselves.
As I said before: For myself, I know more than I want or need to know
Me in my soul are not separate from each other – we are all living souls.
Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Job 12:10 - In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Muslim-UK said: Actually there are Seven Heavens, Jesus pbuh is with John the Baptist pbuh in the Second Heaven.
In the Word of God (Bible) it says that there are only 3 heavens. If it says in the Koran that John the Baptist was in the 2nd heaven – it would mean that he is in what we call “outer space” or with the planets and stars
I would love for you to explain the Seven Heavens, that would be very interesting to me.
Muslim-UK said: How would Elijah have known what God had in store for him when he wrote the letter?
The fact that Elijah wrote the letter was not the point. The point was: that he wrote the letter 8-10 years later after he was supposedly taken by a whirlwind to heaven
Muslim-UK said: Where's Saul's proof for Enoch's death?
Hebrews 11:13 -These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. (Hebrews 11:4-13) Talking about Enoch and some others)
Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Revelation 20: 5-7 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
Revelation 20:12-14 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (the graves) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell *the graves) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Muslim-UK said: He doesn't have a biological father, we now he regarded God as his spiritual father, after all we are ALL children of God.
God's word makes it clear:
John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
We may have all been given the breath of life (the spirit that makes us a living soul), but we are not all children of God.
Muslim-UK said: Funny that you, as a man worshipping Christian should say that.
I did not mean it personally to you, and I apologize if it appeared that way. What I was saying is that if we believe that God created Adam – to believe that Adam was a greater god than Christ, we would believe in the creation more than the Creator. (This would make anyone who believed in the creation more than the creator have a reprobate mind.
Just because Christ came in the Flesh during our life-time doesn't mean that he did not exist before the world began. Many scriptures tell you this is so.
Muslim-UK said: The world of difference is the original Arabic remains unchanged. You can use a decent Arabic Lexicon for contentious words along with several translations:
The Hebrew Torah & the Prophets (Tanach) has also been unchanged in the same manner, however, these things were written before Christ came. The words written in Hebrew, can also mean ten different things that pertain to it. When translated, there are punctuation and paragraphs given to it to make it easier for them that do not know Hebrew to read it.
The New Testament or New Covenant (because Christ was the Mediator of it), came when he did and was written during and afterwards by men that were inspired by our Father in the heavens, Unfortunately, man in his infinite wisdom, thought to make some words more simple to understand. This in turn sometimes has changed the word, which can also change the meaning. If someone has studied these things out, they know where these words, & etc are. One thing that has not been changed is God's message
Muslim-UK said: Any Historian will tell you, the older the more reliable, the more witnesses, the better. People who think 4th Century Greek Philosophers honoured a First Century Jewish Prophet and preserved his message are deluding themselves.
That's just it, Historians will tell you. If Muhammed wrote the Quran, he had no one to back him up, but he himself. At least the bible with its different authors back each other up. The Bible also has Historians to tell you how reliable it is.
Muslim-UK said: Christianity is the odd one out of the 3 Abrahamic Religions. God does not have a son in Judaism or Islam. This alien concept comes from the Pagan West.
In Judaism, they are looking for the Messiah to come, they do not know that he has already came and that he will come again. They are unaware due to their blindness, that Christ redeemed them from the law...but God has given them some promises that they would see if they turn to him.
2 Corinthians 3:14 - But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:15 - But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2 Corinthians 3:16 - Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Muslim-UK said: Jesus pbu in the Aramaic NT called Him Elahi, other translations show AaLah.
Rather or not in the Aramaic Language he is called that, does not change the fact that Allah has no Son. For a Christian to believe in him knowing this, they would no longer be Christians, but rather “ians without Christ.
Muslim-UK said: Call Him what you like, but there is Only One God who created the Universe and everything within it.
I agree with you 100% - that God is One and the only One.
The Holy Spirit was not a Father until he had a Son
The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son, because the Son was conceived by the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit draws you to Christ, and Christ reveals who the Father is.
Not a Trinity- but One in His Holy Spirit
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 14:6 - Christ saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Luke 10:22 - All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
2 John 1:9 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Muslim-UK said: Correct he robbed caravans from the same people who seized the homes and property of the believers, from the same people who imposed a economic blockade to starve and isolate the Muslims.
He sounds like Peter Pan to me, but the fact that he kept 20% of stolen property, meant that it was never his property to begin with, regardless of what reason he had for doing it. Nor did he testify that Allah told him to do this.
Muslim-UK said: You learn from discredited sources, but that's a matter for you and your soul.
There are many reasons why anyone with questions to Muhammad's Life -should research these things for themselves.
As I said before: For myself, I know more than I want or need to know
Me in my soul are not separate from each other – we are all living souls.
Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Job 12:10 - In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Muslim-UK said: Actually there are Seven Heavens, Jesus pbuh is with John the Baptist pbuh in the Second Heaven.
In the Word of God (Bible) it says that there are only 3 heavens. If it says in the Koran that John the Baptist was in the 2nd heaven – it would mean that he is in what we call “outer space” or with the planets and stars
I would love for you to explain the Seven Heavens, that would be very interesting to me.
Muslim-UK said: How would Elijah have known what God had in store for him when he wrote the letter?
The fact that Elijah wrote the letter was not the point. The point was: that he wrote the letter 8-10 years later after he was supposedly taken by a whirlwind to heaven
Muslim-UK said: Where's Saul's proof for Enoch's death?
Hebrews 11:13 -These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. (Hebrews 11:4-13) Talking about Enoch and some others)
Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Revelation 20: 5-7 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
Revelation 20:12-14 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (the graves) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell *the graves) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Muslim-UK said: He doesn't have a biological father, we now he regarded God as his spiritual father, after all we are ALL children of God.
God's word makes it clear:
John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
We may have all been given the breath of life (the spirit that makes us a living soul), but we are not all children of God.
Muslim-UK said: Funny that you, as a man worshipping Christian should say that.
I did not mean it personally to you, and I apologize if it appeared that way. What I was saying is that if we believe that God created Adam – to believe that Adam was a greater god than Christ, we would believe in the creation more than the Creator. (This would make anyone who believed in the creation more than the creator have a reprobate mind.
Just because Christ came in the Flesh during our life-time doesn't mean that he did not exist before the world began. Many scriptures tell you this is so.
Muslim-UK said: The world of difference is the original Arabic remains unchanged. You can use a decent Arabic Lexicon for contentious words along with several translations:
The Hebrew Torah & the Prophets (Tanach) has also been unchanged in the same manner, however, these things were written before Christ came. The words written in Hebrew, can also mean ten different things that pertain to it. When translated, there are punctuation and paragraphs given to it to make it easier for them that do not know Hebrew to read it.
The New Testament or New Covenant (because Christ was the Mediator of it), came when he did and was written during and afterwards by men that were inspired by our Father in the heavens, Unfortunately, man in his infinite wisdom, thought to make some words more simple to understand. This in turn sometimes has changed the word, which can also change the meaning. If someone has studied these things out, they know where these words, & etc are. One thing that has not been changed is God's message
Muslim-UK said: Any Historian will tell you, the older the more reliable, the more witnesses, the better. People who think 4th Century Greek Philosophers honoured a First Century Jewish Prophet and preserved his message are deluding themselves.
That's just it, Historians will tell you. If Muhammed wrote the Quran, he had no one to back him up, but he himself. At least the bible with its different authors back each other up. The Bible also has Historians to tell you how reliable it is.
Muslim-UK said: Christianity is the odd one out of the 3 Abrahamic Religions. God does not have a son in Judaism or Islam. This alien concept comes from the Pagan West.
In Judaism, they are looking for the Messiah to come, they do not know that he has already came and that he will come again. They are unaware due to their blindness, that Christ redeemed them from the law...but God has given them some promises that they would see if they turn to him.
2 Corinthians 3:14 - But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:15 - But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2 Corinthians 3:16 - Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Repox
Truth Seeker
Islam is a form of plagiarized Christianity, so we really don't have two different religions. Also, both religions seem to be rooted in cultural mazes, which make them more secular than religious.
herushura
Active Member
Why do people keeping mixing Old Testament and New Testament quotes together, they are written in different languages , there is nothing in the Old Testament that supports the New Testament or Islam.
Islam is a version of Christianity, both emphasise 'Hell' ,a corruption of the Hebrew 'הִנֹּם גַּיְא' (Gai enm ) , known in Arabic as 'Jahannam' or in the New Testament , 'Geena' , So these religions are based on fear, so they are false.
Islam is a version of Christianity, both emphasise 'Hell' ,a corruption of the Hebrew 'הִנֹּם גַּיְא' (Gai enm ) , known in Arabic as 'Jahannam' or in the New Testament , 'Geena' , So these religions are based on fear, so they are false.
qalbesaleem
New Member
Short answer: no. They are different religions for a reason. They could not come to a consensus without compromising the basic tenets...
Muffled
Jesus in me
As far as I can tell this could be a prophesy about Islam:
Da 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Ali is the one who conquered three nations according to history. That would mean that Muhammad would be the man speaking great things. That doesn't suggest false prophet.
I believe the warning was that people would say they were Jesus but Muhammad did not say that.
I don't believe I would understand why they would need to.
I believe that is not true. Many verses indicate that it is the angel talking.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe people will not come into agreement until they are willing to admit the truth and most of the time they are not.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe this looks like a three fold prophecy. The first was the defiling of the Temple in the post Alexandrian time. The second was the placement of Caesar's statue in the Temple to defile it in Roman times and the last supposedly will be the antichrist sitting in the temple calling himself God.
I believe that is not even close. It is a prophecy about Jesus who is the light to the gentiles and a new covenant:
Isa. 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Daniel 7:8, is not about Islam nor about Muhammad, this of Daniel 7:8, is about the soon coming of the tribulation. And the Antichrist speaking great words of the Almighty God. Rev 13:5, and in
2 These 2:3-10, and in Isaiah 14:12-17
This is all about Satan, when he comes into the world masquerading to impersonate by deception to deceive the whole world into believing that he is God.
( Christ Jesus )