How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

I acknowledge you do not see a Book as Neccessary.

As a Baha'i we acknowledge we do not ownTruth, it is not from us, it is but a gift given to share.

After the Messenger leaves this earthly life, the Book is the gift of proof of the Life and the Message Given, it is the gift of the guidance required for the age the Message given.

The Book is a Neccesary part to ensure man stays close to the Truth. Even with the guidance of the written word, history shows we can still stray, then how much more would we stray without it, when man uses but His own ideas!

Regards Tony

In my opinion, it sounds like you (and other book-believers) don't trust yourselves. The books are written by people too; and, they trusted themselves and wrote down their experiences and interpretations thereof. Whatever year people stopped trusting themselves, I don't know. It wasn't that long ago, though. Maybe it's just spiritual chronic depression.

When I read a poem about lust versus love, I wouldn't mistake the emotion I get from the poem:

The Look
Sara Teasedale

Strephon kissed me in the spring,
Robin in the fall,
But Colin only looked at me
And never kissed at all.

Strephon’s kiss was lost in jest,
Robin’s lost in play,
But the kiss in Colin’s eyes
Haunts me night and day.

-

and the emotion I get from actually experiencing and knowing the difference. If I need to refer to the poem to explain what the differences are, so be.

However, in religion, it should be your second if not first language. If you depend on someone else's words to experience god, who is doing the experiencing?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Have you read and followed our conversations or skimmed over it?

I'm trying to make it as simple as possible.

Buddhism is not a prophet religion

Written suttas mea nothing.

Dhamma is a practice

Practice what? Yes the same question that loverofhumanity posted.

How does each person know what to practice?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In my opinion, it sounds like you (and other book-believers) don't trust yourselves. The books are written by people too; and, they trusted themselves and wrote down their experiences and interpretations thereof. Whatever year people stopped trusting themselves, I don't know. It wasn't that long ago, though. Maybe it's just spiritual chronic depression.

When I read a poem about lust versus love, I wouldn't mistake the emotion I get from the poem:

The Look
Sara Teasedale

Strephon kissed me in the spring,
Robin in the fall,
But Colin only looked at me
And never kissed at all.

Strephon’s kiss was lost in jest,
Robin’s lost in play,
But the kiss in Colin’s eyes
Haunts me night and day.

-

and the emotion I get from actually experiencing and knowing the difference. If I need to refer to the poem to explain what the differences are, so be.

However, in religion, it should be your second if not first language. If you depend on someone else's words to experience god, who is doing the experiencing?

Yes the written word is there so we can find the Spirit in it. It is there so the spiritual message is always available.

Yes we should not trust our own selves. Man has got it wrong and History is a great lesson to learn from.

Man must submit to a code of laws, or anarchy results.

The greatest guidance is from our maker, He knows the beginning and He Knows the End, God has His finger on the pulse of mankind, diagnoses the diesease and gives the remedy.

We remain ill when we do not partace of the given elixer.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Practice what? Yes the same question that loverofhumanity posted.

How does each person know what to practice?

Regards Tony

I won't repeat the whole conversation with loverofhumanity. I said it repeatedly. You can even look at the Hindu conversations because the view of practice is similar in Dharmic faiths that abrahamics don't get.

Please read the posts. I don't want to write a whole 'nothing lecture when none of you are reading it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes the written word is there so we can find the Spirit in it. It is there so the spiritual message is always available.

Yes we should not trust our own selves. Man has got it wrong and History is a great lesson to learn from.

Man must submit to a code of laws, or anarchy results.

The greatest guidance is from our maker, He knows the beginning and He Knows the End, God has His finger on the pulse of mankind, diagnoses the diesease and gives the remedy.

We remain ill when we do not partace of the given elixer.

Regards Tony

In other words, you disagree?

 

[Vinayaka]

Typically, one religion states the beliefs of the other and compares them to their own and say why the other religion is wrong.

At interfaith panels that's how it goes, although generally they are incredibly polite about addressing the other groups. Often its just stating their own belief without addressing the other guys at all. That's my preference.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why do you think that in creation, which is a Reflection if Gods Atteibutes, that all things given from God are being renewed by going through cycles from birth to death, from light ro darkness, that Religion would be exempt from that renewal.

It is more likely that the renewal will hapoen at the time when rejection if God is at its apex. The Holy books all contain this advice.

Thus what you have posted would only confirm the view that Baha'u'llah has offered.

Regards Tony

Right out of the blue ... a total switch of topic. Wow, just wow.

The topic was that all religions disagree with the Baha'i' versions of those same religions.

At this point I think I could say absolutely anything at all, and the response would be, 'Oh yes, we agree with that." lol

The very concept of 'creation' varies widely. The only reason 'creation' is used as a term at all when combining paradigms is that the Abrahamics can't think out of their own box far enough to understand any other version of the way things happen. So it's a very poor word for how monistic Hindus see it. Very poor word, but if it's the only word you have, then so be it.

(If everything is an extension of Himself, God has nothing to 'create' as it's already all there.)

I could just make up stuff about what Hindus believe, and the Baha'i's would agree. All the Hindus would disagree though, because they actually know something about Hinduism.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's not blind belief as the way you put it but agreement with Baha'u'llah's reasoning behind what He teaches. It all makes so much sense. He almost always gives extremely good reasons why we should do or not do something.

So when those people asked him his age, and he said, 'Discuss it, and decide for yourselves.' that was wisdom? How exactly is that wisdom? A much more intelligent answer would have just been, "I'm 42."

 

[Vinayaka]

I acknowledge you do not see a Book as Neccessary.

As a Baha'i we acknowledge we do not ownTruth, it is not from us, it is but a gift given to share.

After the Messenger leaves this earthly life, the Book is the gift of proof of the Life and the Message Given, it is the gift of the guidance required for the age the Message given.

The Book is a Neccesary part to ensure man stays close to the Truth. Even with the guidance of the written word, history shows we can still stray, then how much more would we stray without it, when man uses but His own ideas!

So you acknowledge she has the right to think a book isn't necessary, and then go on to try to convince her it is. You don't see the difference here between theory and practice?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I won't repeat the whole conversation with loverofhumanity. I said it repeatedly. You can even look at the Hindu conversations because the view of practice is similar in Dharmic faiths that abrahamics don't get.

Please read the posts. I don't want to write a whole 'nothing lecture when none of you are reading it.

So now do you refer me to a Written Word?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In other words, you disagree?

You have shown that is is ludicrous not to consider that the Written Words has any importance.

Yes it is more than Logical to disagree, you would have heard of Chinese Whispers.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You have shown that is is ludicrous not to consider that the Written Words has any importance.

Yes it is more than Logical to disagree, you would have heard of Chinese Whispers.

Regards Tony

The reason I ask is you guys just can't say "I disagree."

That will help A LOT because whatever comments and questions you have, I know from what position you are making your comments and questions.

I don't know about other languages in full, but in English especially online, you need a firm statement (theme or point), your position (disagree, agree, neutral), and your comment, facts, or questions.

It does not cause wars. It just makes the conversation run faster

that is if you are all reading our posts.

 

[Vinayaka]

Just because one person NEEDS a book does not imply that the rest of humanity does.
Just because one person NEEDS surgery doesn't imply that all people need surgery. lol

That sort of 'logic' isn't logical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So now do you refer me to a Written Word?

Regards Tony

What? Passive sarcasm?

Everything you are reading, are written (well, typed) words.

Can you practice your religion without your theology?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Right out of the blue ... a total switch of topic. Wow, just wow.

The topic was that all religions disagree with the Baha'i' versions of those same religions.

At this point I think I could say absolutely anything at all, and the response would be, 'Oh yes, we agree with that." lol

The very concept of 'creation' varies widely. The only reason 'creation' is used as a term at all when combining paradigms is that the Abrahamics can't think out of their own box far enough to understand any other version of the way things happen. So it's a very poor word for how monistic Hindus see it. Very poor word, but if it's the only word you have, then so be it.

(If everything is an extension of Himself, God has nothing to 'create' as it's already all there.)

I could just make up stuff about what Hindus believe, and the Baha'i's would agree. All the Hindus would disagree though, because they actually know something about Hinduism.

It was 100% relevant to the post I replied to.

You said; "No Buddhist is convinced. No Hindu is convinced. No Christian is convinced. No Muslim is convinced.
Which part of respecting diversity do you and other Baha'i' not understand? It is simply not fair to redefine someone else's faith."

I showed that God does not redefine the process, but He makes all things New. The same Sun, Different Seasons., it is the Same Sun rising from Different Points on the Horizon.

It is saying that all the changes are of God and those that hold on to a single Name and Attribute of a single Dawning Point of the Sun, are missing the bounty of seeing and understanding all the other Names and Attributes of the Dawning points of the Sun.

In each Day the Sun Rises, we can appreciate the Attributes of that day and live that Day as the Sun allows us to do.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you acknowledge she has the right to think a book isn't necessary, and then go on to try to convince her it is. You don't see the difference here between theory and practice?

I acknowledge that some people see that Killing others is an meritorious act of Faith in Gods Word.

It is Justice that we point out it is not.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

It was 100% relevant to the post I replied to.

You said; "No Buddhist is convinced. No Hindu is convinced. No Christian is convinced. No Muslim is convinced.
Which part of respecting diversity do you and other Baha'i' not understand? It is simply not fair to redefine someone else's faith."

I showed that God does not redefine the process, but He makes all things New. The same Sun, Different Seasons., it is the Same Sun rising from Different Points on the Horizon.

It is saying that all the changes are of God and those that hold on to a single Name and Attribute of a single Dawning Point of the Sun, are missing the bounty of seeing and understanding all the other Names and Attributes of the Dawning points of the Sun.

In each Day the Sun Rises, we can appreciate the Attributes of that day and live that Day as the Sun allows us to do.

Regards Tony

Yes I know what Baha'is believe. Baha'i's do not have a monopoly on the interpretation of what God does, although it appears you think you do somehow.

My 4 statements stand as written. Non Baha'i's disagree, that's why we're non-Baha'i's. If we agreed. we'd be Baha'i's. lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

I acknowledge that some people see that Killing others is an meritorious act of Faith in Gods Word.

It is Justice that we point out it is not.

Regards Tony

Sudden switch of topic again... but...
Yes, that one we can agree on, and I'm glad you said 'some people'. Your stand on ahimsa is admirable.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just because one person NEEDS a book does not imply that the rest of humanity does.
Just because one person NEEDS surgery doesn't imply that all people need surgery. lol

That sort of 'logic' isn't logical.

Again the Written Word is more than Logical. You talk via the Net because of this. Where did the Surgeon learn of their Trade? How did Medicine get better and better?

First they study from what is previously written on the trade, then they either have hands on experience and Guidance by the Surgeon that teaches them, or they look up the book that the Surgeon left, so they can follow the procedure. Why doing this it is highly possible they can find a new and better way and then become guidance for others.

If they start surgery without the guidance of the surgeon or the wisdom He has written, they start form scratch and know not a thing.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes I know what Baha'is believe. Baha'i's do not have a monopoly on the interpretation of what God does, although it appears you think you do somehow.

My 4 statements stand as written. Non Baha'i's disagree, that's why we're non-Baha'i's. If we agreed. we'd be Baha'i's. lol.

So is the Lover of a Name greater than the Lover of the Spirit behind the Name?

Regards Tony