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The Christian Crusades, God be with them 1065AD > 2017AD

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
DISCLAIMER DESPITE MY AP WRITING STYLE OF MY THREADS TITLE! my personal view of the Crusades is they were unnecessarily murderous, as well as pillaging when they entered Jerusalem. They were barbaric, unchristian, and evil. Just as bad is that they were carried on in the name of a religion that preached of peace, love, and forgiveness. I believe that most Christians of today agree with me. For evidence is the large numbers of Christians who have recently taken long pilgrimages in the path of the Crusaders while repenting for the Crusader's acts. We and they ask for forgiveness and give penance for the Crusader's barbaric, unchristian, and evil atrocities.

(some material from the web all material and claims can be sourced upon request)

Onward;

The Crusades were not created out of a vacuum. They were created as a result of hundreds of years of Arab aggression before the first crusader mounted a battle horse. I bet some of you didn't hear that in far left progressive liberalism 101! Ever wonder why the (CHRISTIAN) Crusades are demonized as murdering goons by not just the 'Berkleite universes' but by most non-Christian sponsored Universities. A blind man could see colleges of today are little more than ultra, ultra, oh so far, far and away examples of leftist indoctrination machines which produces good little leftists. Like some kind of monstrous cookie cutters these Leftist U schools create students built conform (compare that to the 60's where the left was anti conformity). But I am getting off on a tangent. Anyway to close (if anyone is still reading or awake), It's my opinion that the atrocities perped by middle east terrorists such as ISIS and other groups are just part of a battle plan that has been on going for over a thousand years. They are attempting to force the world into an Islamic caliphate while destroying Christianity. They have hit on a very effective formula which is nothing less than an integrated battle plan with propaganda and terrorism as indispensable part.

Anyway I am sure some here agree with me many don't. But History does not lie. Its the same old thing Christendom vs those who would destroy us.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Crusades were not created out of a vacuum. They were created as a result of hundreds of years of Arab aggression before the first crusader mounted a battle horse. I bet some of you didn't hear that in far left progressive liberalism 101!
Why do you think that this is some sort of "liberalism" problem?
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Why do you think that this is some sort of "liberalism" problem?

Sorry that was a typo, Or it may or read like one. What I meant is its my opinion that, PCism, anti Christianism', etc are the default teaching style of far left 'progressive' professors who hold the majority of teaching positions.

; {>
 
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Interesting factoid: the crusades were partially an early effect of the long process towards European secularism and the separation of Church. Disagreements between the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor (particularly Henry IV and Pope Gregory VII) led to a clear acknowledgement of separate spheres of influence.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Anyway I am sure some here agree with me many don't. But History does not lie. Its the same old thing Christendom vs those who would destroy us.

I see history as a narrative. A fiction with a smattering of evidence to make it more believable. I doubt we'll ever be certain of any true motivations of why historical folks committed the acts they did.

No need for me to justify the Crusades any more than a Muslim needs to justify the Ottoman Empire. I was not there, had nothing to do with it.

I'm an atheist. I represent no other atheist. I've no need to justify the actions of anyone atheist other than myself. So what's the point of justifying historical Christians or Muslims? None of their actions goes to your credit, none of the blame.

You're a Christian for whatever your personal reason are. Not because of what folks did in the past. No need for you to justify the history of your religion to anyone. You only need to justify yourself and your own actions. If you can do that, then your good.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
I am under the impression that [at least some of] the Crusades was the Popes' way of wresting control of the people from the hands of the king by riling them up for his cause.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
DISCLAIMER DESPITE MY AP WRITING STYLE OF MY THREADS TITLE! my personal view of the Crusades is they were unnecessarily murderous, as well as pillaging when they entered Jerusalem. They were barbaric, unchristian, and evil. Just as bad is that they were carried on in the name of a religion that preached of peace, love, and forgiveness. I believe that most Christians of today agree with me. For evidence is the large numbers of Christians who have recently taken long pilgrimages in the path of the Crusaders while repenting for the Crusader's acts. We and they ask for forgiveness and give penance for the Crusader's barbaric, unchristian, and evil atrocities.

(some material from the web all material and claims can be sourced upon request)

Onward;

The Crusades were not created out of a vacuum. They were created as a result of hundreds of years of Arab aggression before the first crusader mounted a battle horse. I bet some of you didn't hear that in far left progressive liberalism 101! Ever wonder why the (CHRISTIAN) Crusades are demonized as murdering goons by not just the 'Berkleite universes' but by most non-Christian sponsored Universities. A blind man could see colleges of today are little more than ultra, ultra, oh so far, far and away examples of leftist indoctrination machines which produces good little leftists. Like some kind of monstrous cookie cutters these Leftist U schools create students built conform (compare that to the 60's where the left was anti conformity). But I am getting off on a tangent. Anyway to close (if anyone is still reading or awake), It's my opinion that the atrocities perped by middle east terrorists such as ISIS and other groups are just part of a battle plan that has been on going for over a thousand years. They are attempting to force the world into an Islamic caliphate while destroying Christianity. They have hit on a very effective formula which is nothing less than an integrated battle plan with propaganda and terrorism as indispensable part.

Anyway I am sure some here agree with me many don't. But History does not lie. Its the same old thing Christendom vs those who would destroy us.

So, are you proposing that the West launch another Crusade into the Middle East? Or perhaps a crusade against far left progressive liberalism?

I'm not necessarily judging the Crusaders, and I agree that the Crusades did not arise out of a vacuum. The Middle East has always been some kind of battleground, since it's in a strategic location and the crossroads of three continents. And then it's also "holy ground" to some.

Regardless of whatever battle plan ISIS and other groups are supposedly carrying out, our problem here in the West is that we never really had any coherent plan at all. We merely respond and react to whatever the enemy du jour happens to do - whether it's ISIS, Iran, North Korea, or wherever. It's not just far left progressive liberalism. There are some reasonable criticisms that US foreign policy is often willy-nilly, reckless, and incoherent.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I bet some of you didn't hear that in far left progressive liberalism 101!
Oh good grief!
Sorry that was a typo, Or it may or read like one. What I meant is its my opinion that, PCism, anti Christianism', etc are the default teaching style of far left 'progressive' professors who hold the majority of teaching positions.
Instead of taking stories that often come from UC Berkely and assuming that to be pretty much every college and university and professor and college student, go to some yourself and get to know the faculty and students.
DISCLAIMER DESPITE MY AP WRITING STYLE OF MY THREADS TITLE!
Your thread title is not in proper AP format.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What I meant is its my opinion that, PCism, anti Christianism', etc are the default teaching style of far left 'progressive' professors who hold the majority of teaching positions.
I have seen little evidence for this. Yes, there are some pretty "far-out" leftist professors, but most of them that I have ever dealt with don't fit what you say.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
To be fair, they pretty much were...

Yes they were like the crystal meth soaked German SS troops and wild eyed Magic mushroom eating Viking shock warriors of that period. They were elite warriors at least in skill, but had no clue to what Christianity was about (actually they did know but thought they would be forgiven for doing what they thought was Gods will, kind of like the Muslim terrorists of today....But they and the ISIS types were and are WRONG!)

As I said I certainly do not condone their blood lust, it sickens and angers me. However, the point of the thread was that if you ask a hundred people about the crusades 75% would not know that their crusade was retaliation for hundreds of years of Muslim aggression and to win back large areas of Christendom seized by war rape and pillage by Islamic forces. I wasn't taught that ! I got the Islamic rewriting of history that called the Crusades unprovoked outright robbery etc. As Judge said I don't like to be told its raining by someone peeing on my leg.

; { >
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Those were unchristian people calling themselves Christian and what they did was terrible


Yes I said the same.

but here is me defending what they did and attacking liberals for teaching that they were bad guys

Again I was attacking professors that were lying to advance an agenda. They lied to me and those lies influenced my early political views. It would not of mattered if they had been far right conservative professors. ? I hope I dont have to go over this a third time.....
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
None of my "liberal progressive education" has ever made this claim. Not during high school, not during college, never.

Yeah right, ok, I have no reason to question your integrity (it would be nice if this respect was reciprocal) you were lucky. Btw, what did your college professors say about the reasons for crusades. Were your liberal minded teachers religious friendly? I am just curious.

: {>
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Interesting factoid: the crusades were partially an early effect of the long process towards European secularism and the separation of Church. Disagreements between the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor (particularly Henry IV and Pope Gregory VII) led to a clear acknowledgement of separate spheres of influence.

I don't agree that the above would justify a crusade but who knows? The Christians were suffering the brunt of Islamic Imperialism (yes I said imperialism) and expansion for centuries, and that was enough to go to war.

; {>
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
timeline of Muslim aggression that resulted in the Crusades. To verify simply google any event that seems questionable.

450 years before the 1st Crusade......

— The Crusades were a delayed response for CENTURIES of Muslim aggression, that grew ever fiercer in the 11th Century. The Muslims focused on Christians and Jews…forcing conversions, plundering and mortally wounding apostates.

— The Crusades were a DEFENSIVE action, first called for by Pope Urban II in 1095 at the Council of Clermont.

— The Crusades were a response against Jihad, which is obligatory against non-Muslims entering “Muslim lands’”. (Muslim lands are any lands invaded and conquered by Islam.)

— The Crusades were jihad-provoked and not imperialistic actions against a “peaceful”, native Muslim population. The Crusades were NOT for profit, but rather to recover the Holy Land brutally invaded and conquered by Muslims…who conquered for profit and as a notch on their superiority belt.

— The lands conquered by the Crusaders were NOT colonized under the Byzantine Empire. The Empire withdrew its support so the Crusaders renounced their agreement.
 

Flame

Beware
I have seen little evidence for this. Yes, there are some pretty "far-out" leftist professors, but most of them that I have ever dealt with don't fit what you say.

I agree with Metis. There are some far out professors but I've never talked or listened to any history professor worth their salt that fit what you're saying.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
BTW, I think it's best not to stereotype the Crusades and the actors in it one way or the other without doing the homework first, so here: Crusades - Wikipedia

I may not be an expert on the Crusades however near east history has always held an interest for me. After becoming disillusioned with my atheistic world view I traveled and studied for over ten years eventually stealing a Theology related masters degree, and a few year later I became a Christian. Btw Wikipedia is a good resource, but I wouldn't write a thesis or desertion using information from it as an exclusive source.

Thanks for your reply~

: { >
 
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