Is Christianity logical?

[Kemosloby]

Okay.

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No matter where you move the goal post, in Christianity people are still corrupted with sin. People go about sinning, even if they don't know it, even if they don't want to sin. "Sin dwells within me". What problem do you have with that? Do you disagree that you are not perfect?

 

[Nakosis]

I believe recognizing truth is illogical. It implies that one already knows the truth in order to recognize it but when and how did that happen?

That' s the point of logic, a method to determine the truth of something. Not infallible since it's necessary to trust the premise(s) involved. For example if the premise is that the Bible is true, the logical truth of that is going to be a lot different than say a premise that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points.

I don't believe you can refute the logic but that is what the Bible tells us that we are all pathetic.

We are what we are. That we are pathetic is a personal judgement. I don't think your pathetic. I think you are doing the best you can giving what's available to you. I don't think doing your best is pathetic at all.

 

[Nakosis]

No matter where you move the goal post, in Christianity people are still corrupted with sin. People go about sinning, even if they don't know it, even if they don't want to sin. "Sin dwells within me". What problem do you have with that? Do you disagree that you are not perfect?

Certainly not. Being what I am is perfect because I couldn't be anything else. God wants you to be somebody else? Well that's not reality. God then has an imperfect idea of what reality is about.

Christianity gives people an imperfect idea of reality then expects folks to live up it. When you can't be other than what you are, Christianity explains this as your fault because of sin. Karma on the other hand is the idea that you can't be what you are not so don't sweat it. I'm sure I'm taking some liberties with that definition but that's basically how I see it.

 

[Kemosloby]

Certainly not. Being what I am is perfect because I couldn't be anything else. God wants you to be somebody else? Well that's not reality. God then has an imperfect idea of what reality is about.

Christianity gives people an imperfect idea of reality then expects folks to live up it. When you can't be other than what you are, Christianity explains this as your fault because of sin. Karma on the other hand is the idea that you can't be what you are not so don't sweat it. I'm sure I'm taking some liberties with that definition but that's basically how I see it.

Christianity tells you to try and be perfect so that you realize that you can't no matter how hard you try. Then it has Jesus who forgives you for not being perfect, and says not to judge others who are imperfect because you yourself are imperfect. So it's a bit more thorough than you typical Gen. X, slacker solution, such as Karma.

 

[Nakosis]

Christianity tells you to try and be perfect so that you realize that you can't no matter how hard you try. Then it has Jesus who forgives you for not being perfect, and says not to judge others who are imperfect because you yourself are imperfect. So it's a bit more thorough than you typical Gen. X, slacker solution, such as Karma.

So Christianity tells you to be something you cannot, then has Jesus forgive you for not doing something you wouldn't be able to do anyway?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but it sounds like a scam.

Ok, then you go out and convince other folks to try and be "perfect" and when they find they can't be other than what they are tell them Jesus forgives for it.

I get it, if you went around telling people they were perfect as they are, who'd need Jesus to forgive them right?

 

[Kemosloby]

So Christianity tells you to be something you cannot, then has Jesus forgive you for not doing something you wouldn't be able to do anyway?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but it sounds like a scam.

Ok, then you go out and convince other folks to try and be "perfect" and when they find they can't be other than what they are tell them Jesus forgives for it.

I get it, if you went around telling people they were perfect as they are, who'd need Jesus to forgive them right?

It's how you recognize you're a sinner. The ten commandments for instance. They never made people perfect, the never were intended to. Ponder this line. "The law was given so that sin would increase"

 

[Stevicus]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

I can see that there might be some merit in the idea of seeking a higher power, although it might be illogical to say that you've found that higher power without any real evidence or genuine basis for believing it.

As for logic itself, I think Mr. Spock said it best when he said, "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."

 

[DanielR]

to cite Kierkegaard "it's paradox" and that's the point

 

[Aberamentho]

If 1

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

If +1+1+1=1, + God was once a fetus, infant, man, who was killed by the Romans and some Jewish collaborators in His own Priesthood, came back to life and Ascended to Heaven, "for your sins" sounds logical.

Christianity might be the religion for you.

Jesus said his power was given him by God so is not God. There is no such thing as a Trinity either, not in the Bible.

 

[Nakosis]

It's how you recognize you're a sinner. The ten commandments for instance. They never made people perfect, the never were intended to. Ponder this line. "The law was given so that sin would increase"

If only that law was never given right?

So I guess I'm curious now. If you wouldn't mind providing some passages which you feel are important were Jesus specifically talks about sin. You don't have to, I could look it up later.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

I think trying to connect logic and religion is missing the point of both.

 

[Kemosloby]

If only that law was never given right?

So I guess I'm curious now. If you wouldn't mind providing some passages which you feel are important were Jesus specifically talks about sin. You don't have to, I could look it up later.

Look some up, never know what you'll find. I can't find the one im thinking of anyway, where Jesus says to the Pharisee " I know what is in a man".

 

[Skwim]

No matter where you move the goal post, in Christianity people are still corrupted with sin. People go about sinning, even if they don't know it, even if they don't want to sin. "Sin dwells within me". What problem do you have with that? Do you disagree that you are not perfect?

It was you who moved the goalposts when you redefined sin as, ". . . something inside of people that makes them not right." A broad, almost meaningless definition.

More commonly,

"Christian hamartiology describes sin as an act of offence against God by despising his persons and Christian biblical law, and by injuring others. In Christian views it was an evil human act, which violates the rational nature of man as well as God's nature and his eternal law. According to the classical definition of St. Augustine of Hippo sin is "a word, deed, or desire in opposition to the eternal law of God."
Source: Wikipedia​

.

 

[Kemosloby]

The moving of goalposts referred to your redefinition of sin as, ". . . something inside of people that makes them not right." A broad, almost meaningless definition.

.

It has no meaning to you because you know what it is. It's the source of evil within a man. The cause of sin. One is a noun and the other a verb but both part of the same beast. "When I sin, it's not I who sin, but sin which dwells within me"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No matter where you move the goal post, in Christianity people are still corrupted with sin. People go about sinning, even if they don't know it, even if they don't want to sin. "Sin dwells within me". What problem do you have with that? Do you disagree that you are not perfect?

Perfect by what universal standard?

 

[Skwim]

It has no meaning to you because you know what it is. It's the source of evil within a man. The cause of sin. One is a noun and the other a verb but both part of the same beast. "When I sin, it's not I who sin, but sin which dwells within me"

Okey dokey. Then taking your definition of sin as " . . .something inside of people that makes them not right" we can call diarrhea a sin. But more then this . . . .

BILLY.... [holding his head]. Mommy, I've got a headache after I bumped my head this afternoon!
MOMMY:..."That's okay Billy, its just a sin."
DAD.... [spinning around to face MOMMY]. "SIN! In his head? My god Margaret don't just stand there. Get the exorcism kit.
BILLY.... [panicking at the idea]. That's okay. I think it's gone now.
DAD.... Hurrumph! Another lost opportunity to battle Satan.
MOMMY....Don't worry dear, I'm sure tomorrow there'll be something else inside one of us that doesn't make us right. Baby Snooks just pooped in her diaper again and

she doesn't seem happy about. Maybe ol' Mr. sin is about to pay her a visit.​

.​

 

[David T]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

It's logical to understand nature is big you are little. Any notion that there is a trancendent imposing itself on nature either religiously "god" or "laws of physics" are reductive notions that are identical. You cannot possibly understand God if you do not understand nature, you are tiny, it is big. You cannot possibly understand nature if you do not understand God. You are tiny GOD is big. Not so hard except for that blasted ego of tbe intellect seems to trip us all up and we then create all sorts of nonsense in science and in religion.

 

[Kemosloby]

Okey dokey. Then taking your definition of sin as " . . .something inside of people that makes them not right" we can call diarrhea a sin. But more then this . . . .

BILLY.... [holding his head]. Mommy, I've got a headache after I bumped my head this afternoon!
MOMMY:..."That's okay Billy, its just a sin."
DAD.... [spinning around to face MOMMY]. "SIN! In his head? My god Margaret don't just stand there. Get the exorcism kit.
BILLY.... [panicking at the idea]. That's okay. I think it's gone now.
DAD.... Hurrumph! Another lost opportunity to battle Satan.
MOMMY....Don't worry dear, I'm sure tomorrow there'll be something else inside one of us that doesn't make us right. Baby Snooks just pooped in her diaper again and

she doesn't seem happy about. Maybe ol' Mr. sin is about to pay her a visit.​

.​

That's just silly.

 

[ratiocinator]

People go about sinning, even if they don't know it, even if they don't want to sin. "Sin dwells within me". What problem do you have with that? Do you disagree that you are not perfect?

If everybody is a sinner and has no choice about it, then that's god's fault - and it has no business judging us for it. Should have done a better job of creating us...

 

[Kemosloby]

If everybody is a sinner and has no choice about it, then that's god's fault - and it has no business judging us for it. Should have done a better job of creating us...

Fruit, forbidden. Decided listening to God was not necessary. etc etc.