Archaeology and the Bible

[Kenny]

Can anybody think of any other book -- other than the Bible -- which, while fictional (or rather, not necessarily historical), contains descriptions of actual, real stuff? How about, for example E.L Doctorow's "Ragtime?" There are many historical figures and events in that book -- accurately described and not much exaggerated. Does that make "Ragtime" into some sort of gospel truth?

We can, of course, do the same with Homer and with Virgil. Why are the Iliad and the Odyssey, or the Aeneid, not "gospel religious truth?" After all, Schliemann found Troy based on nothing but reading the Iliad and believing that the author knew something about the time he was describing. Does that make Zeus real? Or does it give Achilles real immunity to weapons except at his ankle? I really don't think so.

Yes...

There was an Anglo-Spanish war where the Spanish Armada was destroyed. However, even though we have some archaeological evidence of the same, we must conclude that whatever is written is about that time is simply fictional using actual names and places.

After all "We can, of course, do the same with Homer and with Virgil. Why are the Iliad and the Odyssey, or the Aeneid, not "gospel religious truth?" After all, Schliemann found Troy based on nothing but reading the Iliad and believing that the author knew something about the time he was describing. Does that make Zeus real? Or does it give Achilles real immunity to weapons except at his ankle? I really don't think so."

Somehow I think there comes a point when we must question, when does one decide that reality is reality?

 

[Sapiens]

I didn't know that they wrote fiction back in the days of the Judges and Kings.

Then you learned something today, good for you.

I guess you never read Homer? I recommend his writings to you.

 

[Kenny]

Then you learned something today, good for you.

I guess you never read Homer? I recommend his writings to you.

Ok... Let me see if I understand correctly...

Although we have the following archaeological discovery of the Elba Tablets:

The Ebla Tablets - Sodom and Gomorrah - Former Things - Biblical Archaeology and The Bible

And, although it lists all the cities correctly as what was written in the account in Genesis and verifies the geopolitical condition of that time...

I am to assume that it was some guy who wanted to invent a story (although no one was buying stories) and just happened to write everything correctly and invented Abraham while he was at it?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I didn't know that they wrote fiction back in the days of the Judges and Kings.

Though later, I would argue that such books as Jonah and Esther were intentional fiction.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am to assume that it was some guy who wanted to invent a story (although no one was buying stories) and just happened to write everything correctly and invented Abraham while he was at it?

You are to assume that founders' tales and etiological narratives are written in and with an historical context. It is, in fact, this adherence and reflection of historical context that gives the pericopes their power and longevity, often across generations of oral transmission.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I am always amazed how many times archaeology confirms what was written in the Tannakh.

Once again, another stone is turned and another discovery is found:

"The palace was built for the Assyrian King Sennarcherib, expanded by his son Esarhaddon, and renovated by his grandson King Ashurbanipal, according to the Telegraph, which notes that the palace was partly destroyed during the sack of Nineveh in 612 B.C. Sennacherib’s invasion of the ancient kingdom of Judah is extensively documented in the Bible. Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal are also mentioned in scripture, although feature less prominently."

Biblical king's palace uncovered beneath shrine destroyed by ISIS

Yes, archaeology has confirmed a lot of biblical history, but not the first miracle/revelation.

One biggie I think archaeology is getting wrong, and it's a big one, the location of the Temples was in the old City of David just south of the so-called Temple Mount with the Dome of the Rock. And the big part of the story is the scholars are ignoring the biblical evidence and Josephus, among others.

Maybe even bigger, depending on your religion, is the discovery of of Jesus' and his family's bones and tombs. It's possible that some children actually played soccer with Jesus' skull.

 

[psychoslice]

Archaeology and religion should never be together, its a total contradiction.

 

[sun rise]

Archaeology and religion should never be together, its a total contradiction.

So you ignore the evidence when it exists albeit rarely.

 

[psychoslice]

So you ignore the evidence when it exists albeit rarely.

Ha, what evidence, there's non lol.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Funny how often the alleged "stories and legends" some claim the Bible contains, are confirmed in great detail by archeological discoveries. Far from "distorted", these accounts are accurate history, IMO. It would be strange, indeed, if Pharaoh's army drowned in a sea of reeds. As Exodus 15:4,5 describes; "Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea, And his finest warriors have sunk into the Red Sea. The surging waters covered them; down into the depths they sank like a stone." Hardly a sea of reeds, IMO.

There's no army that is there in the red sea or mass grave lying at its bottom. Just some chariots (parts) had been found near its shoreline.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There's no army that is there in the red sea or mass grave lying at its bottom. Just some chariots (parts) had been found near its shoreline.

There are two ways to address the Exodus: as history

1. there are the various adolescent/sophomoric efforts to mock/dismiss the Charlton Heston Exodus, and
2. there are the many (often competing) efforts to determine the extent to which the book of Exodus informs our understanding of Israelite ethnogenesis.

Whatever rocks your boat ...

 

[Kenny]

You are to assume that founders' tales and etiological narratives are written in and with an historical context. It is, in fact, this adherence and reflection of historical context that gives the pericopes their power and longevity, often across generations of oral transmission.

And it is exciting when, across 4 generations of oral transmission, we find that historical context was indeed, correct.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And it is exciting when, across 4 generations of oral transmission, we find that historical context was indeed, correct.

Yes, very, although one must be careful with the word 'correct.'

 

[Kenny]

Archaeology and religion should never be together, its a total contradiction.

And yet, they are definitely intertwined because Archaeology is about what was happening in the society including their faith.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, archaeology has confirmed a lot of biblical history, but not the first miracle/revelation.

I think that is a matter of perspective.

No where, in the History of all mankind, has a group of people been dispersed throughout the world (not being absorbed into the people that they live with) for 1900 years and come back to the land that they were living in, with their faith, customs and language intact.

That, is a miracle! (in my view). A prophetic utterance mentioned even before they were dispersed. (a double miracle)

One biggie I think archaeology is getting wrong, and it's a big one, the location of the Temples was in the old City of David just south of the so-called Temple Mount with the Dome of the Rock. And the big part of the story is the scholars are ignoring the biblical evidence and Josephus, among others.

Maybe even bigger, depending on your religion, is the discovery of of Jesus' and his family's bones and tombs. It's possible that some children actually played soccer with Jesus' skull.

how so?

 

[rusra02]

"Down to the depths" sounds to me like a bit of creative exaggeration. Hardly surprising in a story handed down through countless generations.
The text, Yam suph, means reed sea; exactly what you'd expect a fleeing people with any knowledge of geography would come across. After all, what kind of idiot would flee to the East, unless, of course, he'd previously arranged for a Dunkirk scale fleet of waiting dhows.

But we quibble. Archaeology? Egyptian Exodus? (you brought it up!) You'd expect the exodus of >2,000,000 people, plus livestock, household goods, &c, to have been one of Egypt's major historical events, especially considering the country's estimated total Egyptian population of only 2,500,000. You'd expect written records of this cataclysm from a dozen different civilizations. Where is it?
You'd expect such a massive population of captive Jews to have left some archaeological evidence in Egypt. Where is it?
The mighty Wiki estimates that two million refugees, marching ten abreast, would have formed a line 150 miles long -- and that's not counting the livestock. Does this sound practicable?
How did two million people manage to feed themselves and their livestock, in a barren desert, for forty years?
How did two million people plus livestock manage to live in a place for forty years and leave no archaeological evidence?

Actually, there is evidence, IMO. Seems as though Egyptologists were looking in the wrong time-period. Check out Patterns of Evidence- the Exodus. I would hardly expect proud Pharoah to record the stunning defeat of Egypt's military forces and Egypt's gods by the hand of their slave's God, Jehovah. As to marching 'ten abreast', the Bible reveals they marched in a diamond shape. No number is given as to how many marched together, but I believe it could be hundreds. As to how such numbers could have been fed and provided water, I refer you to the Books of Exodus and Numbers in the Bible. The historical facts are there.

 

[Polymath257]

Isn't it amazing how the excavations at Troy and other sites confirm the descriptions in the Iliad? I guess that means Athena exists.

 

[Debateable]

OK...

But at what point, after archaeology confirming many items that are written, do we finally say that there is historic value to what was written?

Having some historical references doesn't make it true. Nobody would argue that the Bible is all fiction, but the magic inside is 100% fiction.

 

[Debateable]

Mainly because it was labeled as completely fiction by so many. With so varied of books and authors, one would think that mythology would show up more often.

Because they are speaking to the end premise of the book. It's entirely possible for true events to be used in a work of fiction.

 

[Kenny]

Having some historical references doesn't make it true. Nobody would argue that the Bible is all fiction, but the magic inside is 100% fiction.

Of course... you can't substantiate your position.

But if it is true, historical references will confirm it.