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Why can't Lucifer ever be redeemed?

McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Rapture Era said:
Not making threats, just facts according to the scriptures. I'm not trying to make an argument, but the reality of truth according to the scriptures stands on its own. You can reject and make fun of it all you want. The moment you die, you will find out whether this is true or false, but by that time it will be too late if you are wrong. Just sayin. Eternity is a long time!
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Repeating the same bold empty threat after claiming it to be the "truth" does not change anything other the comedic level of your posts.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Rapture Era said:
Yeah I see what you are saying, but its important to see that Satan doesnt have access to the throneroom of God but he does have access to God because he is accusing us day and night. For those of us who have accepted Jesus as our personal savior, God looks at us through the lenses of Jesus so to speak and tells Satan to get lost. But this doesnt stop Satan from doing it constantly day and night as is described in scripture. I think its a standing order for Satan to have access to God until God destroys him at the end of the millennium.
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Good point. So glad we have an advocate.
 
Rapture Era

Rapture Era

Active Member
Super Universe said:
That's a good question. If you're trying to say that the source determines the validity of information, even a child can be right and even a college professor can be wrong. Is the bible truth?

There was a couple driving across the US with their two children. They pulled off the freeway to get some gas and a bite to eat. Leaving the restaurant they couldn't find their way back to the freeway so they pulled up next to a man at a bus stop. "Hey, can you tell us how to get back on the freeway heading west". The man gave them directions and they drove off. The man said to the lady in the vehicle "I don't think we should follow those directions." The lady said "Why not, he seemed like he knew what he was talking about". The man said "Didn't you notice he had sunglasses and a white cane. He's blind." And the lady replied "Oh, you're right."
The blind man had just gone blind from old age cataracts but he had lived in that city his entire life and gave them accurate directions.
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Thats real nice but you haven't answered my question. How do you account for this?
The Urantia Book Spiritual Scam | Religious figures (modern)
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
The only 'Satan' is the one in your head. We project both our idols and our demons onto an external image of some 'other', thinking them to be real.
 
Repox

Repox

Truth Seeker
Rapture Era said:
He is cast out of the throne room of God, but he has access to God in heaven. He doesnt want to escape the universe, he wants to be worshiped like God. Thats why towards the end of the tribulation, he will set himself up in the Temple to be worshiped.
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I agree that Satan wants to be worshipped like God, but I don't think he is in heaven. I also don't think he spends a lot of time with humans. Satan is immortal, humans are mortal creatures. Satan spends a lot of time trying to escape the universe. It is interesting, if you check scientific records, you'll find strange anomalies (dark ugly scares) on the boundary of the universe. Science calls it "Axis of Evil."
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
godnotgod said:
The only 'Satan' is the one in your head. We project both our idols and our demons onto an external image of some 'other', thinking them to be real.
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I would disagree since my wife lived around that which was not "projection". But its OK for you to have a different viewpoint.
 
ensnaturae

ensnaturae

New Member
Super Universe said:
You know that love exists? Who doesn't believe that love exists?
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Your previous comment about love...indicates to me that you do not share my interpretation of that word..
*God is love? Yes, but the human idea of love is immature and unevolved"........*

Jesus was/is *human*..with the whole gamut of human feeling and emotion, and the liberty to respond to his own thoughts and feelings.
So, NO!! The *human idea of love" ...is NOT.."immature and unevolved".!!! As you wrote first.....it is as he presented it! There is nothing at all immature and unevolved...in recognising and understanding the most profound need of love...and nothing at all immature and unevolved in his KNOWING FOR SURE...that his chances of avoiding the most horrible, painful death ..were remote...impossible even..once he began his path as "son of god"... He knew what would happen ...he knew that he was standing absolutely alone, against some of the most cruel, most powerful men of his time. He was an outsider, bearing rejection, hate, the death wishes of the powerful...and KNOWING..that he did...
I do not think that you have, yet, seen the truth of the love in his life. He was fearless, on behalf of the poor, rejected, outcast, and you too.
You quote bits of a book, as if this is all the evidence there is, but of course that is not so! The evidence, is in the experience. It is in recognition. I mean..recognition of one man, alone, with god, taking the lonliest, most frightful path to torture and death, in full awareness of what he was doing, and the pain he knew he must face... I don't have the smallest interest, in this or that interpretation of bits of book. There is no miracle, no spirituality, no religious practice or vision...that has more strength and power than that Love that knows no boundaries. The *story* is not the source of power. Strength comes from knowing, from experiencing, the qualia? Of Love and loving. Everyone who felt touched by it ..everyone who feels touched by it now..has that power burnt into his heart. Its a flame ...just like a flame...that will never be extiguished.
So, Satan? All those bad good or indifferent spirits, angels? All the magic layered on by primitive religious practices with its heavy threats and promises of heavens and hells? There's nothing in any of it..nothing at all, to be afraid of. Just mythology, tales of imagination, all fears, sadness, mistakes, all just washed away in that light, that warmth.


Super Universe said:
You know that love exists? Who doesn't believe that love exists?

Even in the most basic JC story, love is there? So, when He killed the fig tree, that was love? When He tore up the money lenders tables, that was love? When He initially refused to help the woman who's child was possessed or mentally disabled, that was love? When He said "I come to bring the sword", that was love? Jesus was a complicated being, we all are. No one is all good with no bad parts at all.

When you give your life because of love? Jesus had to bestow upon the earth to experience what it was like to be human so that when He finished He could judge who could enter heaven. The door to heaven was not opened until Jesus finished His earthly bestowal. So, He was never going to stay here forever. He did not have to die the way He did though, He chose not to interfere and allow the crucifixion to continue so the angels would develop more respect for Him.

When someone purposely stomps on your toe, that's not love.
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Repox

Repox

Truth Seeker
Rapture Era said:
He is cast out of the throne room of God, but he has access to God in heaven. He doesnt want to escape the universe, he wants to be worshiped like God. Thats why towards the end of the tribulation, he will set himself up in the Temple to be worshiped.
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There is no throne room of God. There are no different rooms or levels in heaven. There is God, heaven and twelve angels surrounding God. In order to eliminate Satan, who was attacking the other angels, God created the universe as a prison and put Satan inside. Since then, Satan has never been back to heaven. Satan has, however, made numerous escape attempts to return to heaven. His goal has been to replace God. Satan is not real smart, he can't help himself, he keeps attacking God's creatures and causing havoc. I don't understand why someone would become a Satanist. I guess they like to suffer a lot. As far as rebelling from god, what can they gain? They can never create anything, or compete with God in order to become gods. They just fall into oblivion.
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Repox said:
There is no throne room of God. There are no different rooms or levels in heaven. There is God, heaven and twelve angels surrounding God. In order to eliminate Satan, who was attacking the other angels, God created the universe as a prison and put Satan inside. Since then, Satan has never been back to heaven. Satan has, however, made numerous escape attempts to return to heaven. His goal has been to replace God. Satan is not real smart, he can't help himself, he keeps attacking God's creatures and causing havoc. I don't understand why someone would become a Satanist. I guess they like to suffer a lot. As far as rebelling from god, what can they gain? They can never create anything, or compete with God in order to become gods. They just fall into oblivion.
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You should make that into a series.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
KenS said:
I would disagree since my wife lived around that which was not "projection". But its OK for you to have a different viewpoint.
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I assume you meant 'living around evil'. That is not the same as the existence of a real devil called 'Satan'. Or are you saying you lived around Satan?
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
godnotgod said:
I assume you meant 'living around evil'. That is not the same as the existence of a real devil called 'Satan'. Or are you saying you lived around Satan?
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More like demons which are subject to Satan
 
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