Can science disprove the existence of God?

[MrMrdevincamus]

God can enter time and space, but time and space is part of the creation

In Christ God took on a human nature and so was welded together, so to speak a human nature but sinless and unfallen with a divine nature

I agree with much of your comment, have you read any of William Craig work? I think you may like it. Here is his site;
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/
ReasonableFaith.org - Official Site
www.reasonablefaith.org
Video / Audio Debates, Talks, and Interviews. Reasonable Faith Podcast Conversations with William Lane Craig. Defenders Podcast Class on Christian doctrine and ...

oops I gotta change that editor~

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

The bible is so full of allegory, metaphor, simile, parable, figure of speech, myth, etc., that it is not just a simple matter of it being either true or false..though some do see it that way.. The serious student though will try to understand what it means.in the context of their own life and destiny....that is my approach. What other people believe is just where they are at....be they theist or atheist

I understand your thinking even though I wouldn't approach study or worship in the manner you subscribe. If it works for you cool. Its true that scholars actually categorize biblical books as historical or or prophetic or books of poetry etc. Parable is a style more than a category though. I look at my christian faith as how can I employ the teachings of Jesus in my life. And to work on those areas that I fail, and I do fail and sin. So God/Jesus is my moral anchor and of definer of reality.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I understand your thinking even though I wouldn't approach study or worship in the manner you subscribe. If it works for you cool. Its true that scholars actually categorize biblical books as historical or or prophetic or books of poetry etc. Parable is a style more than a category though. I look at my christian faith as how can I employ the teachings of Jesus in my life. And to work on those areas that I fail, and I do fail and sin. So God/Jesus is my moral anchor and of definer of reality.

The means to an end is not different from the end... the starting point and/or present state does not matter, so long as we seek God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength...persistently...our divine destiny is assured.. Head knowledge of scripture for it own sake is not the point....for at the end of the day, God alone knows...

 

[gnostic]

....for at the end of the day, God alone knows...

Know what? What does God know?

To me, if God is real, then God is stupid as a stump?

The Abrahamic religions are examples that if God was real, then he likes nothing more than brag his self-importance and spreading superstitions, like that in the Book of Job.

This book showed that God was no more intelligence than a superstitious man of that time. The Book of Job showed that God had no answers, just empty bragging and using intimidation, to get what he wants, being worshipped...what does sound like to you? Sounds like a bully.

None of the scriptures of other religions, showed that God or gods was any more revolutionary in thoughts and ideas.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Know what? What does God know?

To me, if God is real, then God is stupid as a stump?

The Abrahamic religions are examples that if God was real, then he likes nothing more than brag his self-importance and spreading superstitions, like that in the Book of Job.

This book showed that God was no more intelligence than a superstitious man of that time. The Book of Job showed that God had no answers, just empty bragging and using intimidation, to get what he wants, being worshipped...what does sound like to you? Sounds like a bully.

None of the scriptures of other religions, showed that God or gods was any more revolutionary in thoughts and ideas.

You are saying just what can be expected for anyone who is ignorant of their own severe lack of learning......"stupid as a stump"....how erudite is that?

Concerning the Book of Job, how appropriate you chose it for it is all to do with pointing out how little mankind can know of God...

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

The means to an end is not different from the end... the starting point and/or present state does not matter, so long as we seek God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength...persistently...our divine destiny is assured.. Head knowledge of scripture for it own sake is not the point....for at the end of the day, God alone knows...

Beautifully said and I agree! If you mean by the ends heaven and being with God eternally! The means to find God are the religions, prayer, faith, and other things we the religious use to worship and to love God. Those means may not be an 100% accurate representation of how God really is or heaven or the devil really is. That's because all matter (the material atom based universe) is inherently flawed. We call it sin and other things science calls it quantum uncertainty and other things. However we as sentient beings know enough about Gods desires and Gods will to serve him and attain eternal life via his word and messengers. By messengers I mean angels prophets miracles dreams and visions god sent. God bless you and yours my friend.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Beautifully said and I agree! If you mean by the ends heaven and being with God eternally! The means to find God are the religions, prayer, faith, and other things we the religious use to worship and to love God. Those means may not be an 100% accurate representation of how God really is or heaven or the devil really is. That's because all matter (the material atom based universe) is inherently flawed. We call it sin and other things science calls it quantum uncertainty and other things. However we as sentient beings know enough about Gods desires and Gods will to serve him and attain eternal life via his word and messengers. By messengers I mean angels prophets miracles dreams and visions god sent. God bless you and yours my friend.

Yes, I mean heaven and being with God eternally. God bless you and yours my friend..

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Know what? What does God know?To me, if God is real, then God is stupid as a stump?
The Abrahamic religions are examples that if God was real, then he likes nothing more than brag his self-importance and spreading superstitions, like that in the Book of Job.

This book showed that God was no more intelligence than a superstitious man of that time. The Book of Job showed that God had no answers, just empty bragging and using intimidation, to get what he wants, being worshipped...what does sound like to you? Sounds like a bully.

None of the scriptures of other religions, showed that God or gods was any more revolutionary in thoughts and ideas.

The Christian God has to interact with man and he doses so by the bible. You say god is stupid because he is boastful. Well stupid and boastful are two different things. Btw God isn't boastful he is VENGEFUL and jealous. God has human emotions and he says so! Why? Here is a peice from the web;

One scholar put it this way;"The Bible speaks unashamedly of Yahweh's passion, presenting him as an intense and passionate Being, fervently interested in the world of humans. Not only is there no embarrassment on the part of the OT at Yahweh's possession of emotion, but rather, it is celebrated (see for example, 2 Sam 22:8, 9, 16; Ps 145:8). In fact, his passion guarantees not only that he is intensely interested in the world but that he is a person. This in turn opens up the possibility for communion at the heart of the universe. Therefore, his passion was seen to be continually linked with the implementation of his resolve, and in this, interaction with the world. The God of the OT desired fellowship and interaction with the other persons in his world, and his anger was seen to be part of the actualization of that desire. [NIDOTTE:4.280, s.v. "Anger: Theology"]

So yes, God gets angry just as a parent does at unruly children. Christians know this and are proud of the OT God.The bible showed that God is beyond intelligent. He created the universe, let a thousand Einsteins try that!
Lastly what other religions are you talking about and what is the value in being revolutionary?
If you are really interested in what God is like I suggest a basic course in general theology. It may open your eyes set you free and save your life, your eternal life. This life is just like Jesus or the Native Americans, the Egyptians and other religions say it is, ie 'a flash in a pan', and that aint long my friend!

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Yes. Yes it can. It can also confirm god. However the problem then lies with definition and qualities. One would have to determine what qualities a god has so that they can be tested. If god doesn't have any measurable qualities...by what definition does it exist?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Yes. Yes it can. It can also confirm god. However the problem then lies with definition and qualities. One would have to determine what qualities a god has so that they can be tested. If god doesn't have any measurable qualities...by what definition does it exist?

If I agreed to your criteria I might ask science to state the particulars of the 'inside' or the 'center' of a super massive black hole singularity. If science can not state such particulars using the same guidelines you want to apply to the existence of God, shouldn't we reject the theory that singularities exist?

Btw, singularities are one of many such items that can also be called a double standard for proving the existence and nuances of God as well as supernatural events.

 

[viole]

I agree that modern science especially theoretical physics have pointed out where to find God....and maybe the 'father of all lies' ie Satan.

That explains why > 90% of the members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics. They did indeed pointed out where to find God: in the imagination of people. Namely from the same place the claim that physics proved God comes from.

By the way, if Satan is the father of lies, how do you know that the Jesus tales are not one of his lies? For sure, the God of the NT seems to have a completely different attitude than the God of the OT.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Monk Of Reason]

If I agreed to your criteria I might ask science to state the particulars of the 'inside' or the 'center' of a super massive black hole singularity. If science can not state such particulars using the same guidelines you want to apply to the existence of God, shouldn't we reject the theory that singularities exist?

Btw, singularities are one of many such items that can also be called a double standard for proving the existence and nuances of God as well as supernatural events.

It is not universally accepted as fact that singularities exist. It is theorised that the big bang came out of a singularity but only with good evidence. It is the general opinion of a good portion of the astrophisics community that there is something flawed with the model as singularities cannot exist. Yet the math gathered from the data can be extrapolated to mean just that.

Singularities are based in mathmatics and evidence. God is not. Name me any such scientific theory that is purely based in blnid faith as god is?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

That explains why > 90% of the members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics. They did indeed pointed out where to find God: in the imagination of people. Namely from the same place the claim that physics proved God comes from.

By the way, if Satan is the father of lies, how do you know that the Jesus tales are not one of his lies? For sure, the God of the NT seems to have a completely different attitude than the God of the OT.

Ciao

- viole

I agree that modern science especially theoretical physics have pointed out where to find God....and maybe the 'father of all lies' ie Satan.That explains why > 90% of the members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics. They did indeed pointed out where to find God: in the imagination of people.

By the way, if Satan is the father of lies, how do you know that the Jesus tales are not one of his creations. For sure, the God of the NT seems to have a different attitude than the GOd of the OT.

Ha ha, over 90% of members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics ? Now, now Ms did you have to go back over 16 years to dig up evidence to support your own atheist/agnostic opinions? Yes, I have researched that sensational claim which a was in reality a misled attempt to demoralize and demean those that believe in god and to add to an already formidable fraudulent anti religious database.

In any case the figures you cite was from a rigged survey and published in an pop publication meant for armchair scientists. Nature magazine reported on this questionable 'survey', which resembles recent media coverage (attack) on our president elect, in other words more propaganda than fact. The questions asked in this 'survey' were highly structured and forced the scientists down a guided path which guaranteed them to say they were atheist or agnostic. This ridiculous figure you and a zillion other atheists use as anti God 'evidence' has been bandied about in many forms since the 1990's. The survey was anti metaphysical propagandist fluff meant to placate the atheist readership and to sell magazines. I am surprised that you would attempt to use such obviously fraudulent data to support your personal opinions. Still, I will do you one better and give you some source info. Yes its a religious website but the sources it refers to are legit and most are secular orientated.

As for your last question, if the devil has tricked us all into being Christians and is about what Jesus taught, he might not be such a bad fellow after all!

 

[viole]

I agree that modern science especially theoretical physics have pointed out where to find God....and maybe the 'father of all lies' ie Satan.That explains why > 90% of the members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics. They did indeed pointed out where to find God: in the imagination of people.

By the way, if Satan is the father of lies, how do you know that the Jesus tales are not one of his creations. For sure, the God of the NT seems to have a different attitude than the GOd of the OT.

Ha ha, over 90% of members of the academy of science are atheists or agnostics ? Now, now Ms did you have to go back over 16 years to dig up evidence to support your own atheist/agnostic opinions? Yes, I have researched that sensational claim which a was in reality a misled attempt to demoralize and demean those that believe in god and to add to an already formidable fraudulent anti religious database.

In any case the figures you cite was from a rigged survey and published in an pop publication meant for armchair scientists. Nature magazine reported on this questionable 'survey', which resembles recent media coverage (attack) on our president elect, in other words more propaganda than fact. The questions asked in this 'survey' were highly structured and forced the scientists down a guided path which guaranteed them to say they were atheist or agnostic. This ridiculous figure you and a zillion other atheists use as anti God 'evidence' has been bandied about in many forms since the 1990's. The survey was anti metaphysical propagandist fluff meant to placate the atheist readership and to sell magazines. I am surprised that you would attempt to use such obviously fraudulent data to support your personal opinions. Still, I will do you one better and give you some source info. Yes its a religious website but the sources it refers to are legit and most are secular orientated.

Very well, then I would be very thrilled to know what part of teoretical physics points to a God.

Please, no internet links. We could make a case for a flat earth wih internet sources. Just tell me what you think.

As for your last question, if the devil has tricked us all into being Christians and is about what Jesus taught, he might not be such a bad fellow after all!

If that is the case, I am not sure. At least long term. You will probably find out in the hereafter when God asks you how you could believe such a lie.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rapture Era]

For Evolution (molecules to man) to be true, how does one get past abiogenesis? Science today is showing its not possible. The information in a cell is very complex. Where did this information come from? Where does the information in DNA come from? Seems to me that science is leaning toward creation. If thats so, it is not disproving God but looking a little deeper at Him.

 

[ArtieE]

For Evolution (molecules to man) to be true, how does one get past abiogenesis? Science today is showing its not possible.

Can you link to some scientific studies saying "it's not possible"?

 

[Rapture Era]

Can you link to some scientific studies saying "it's not possible"?

Try this, then, show how it is possible please. Theories dont count.
Why Abiogenesis Is Impossible

 

[ArtieE]

Try this, then, show how it is possible please. Theories dont count.
Why Abiogenesis Is Impossible

This whole article is a logical fallacy called argument from incredulity. Argument from incredulity - RationalWiki

http://phys.org/news/2015-03-chemists-riddle-life-began-earth.html

 

[Rapture Era]

Thanks for the link! But you couldnt have read the article I sent you, if you had you wouldnt have sent this one. In the link you sent, it says this;
"Scientists have debated for years the various possibilities that could have led to life evolving on Earth, and the arguments have only grown more heated in recent years as many have suggested that it did not happen here it all, instead, it was brought to us from comets or some other celestial body."
The text in blue says it all, its my point exactly. The text in red? You have got to be kidding me! The evolutionitis bug has reach the bottom with no where to go and science is proving it day by day. So now scientists who absolutely must not believe in God as creator and intelligent design or they will loose funding or tenure or respect from their fellow evolutionist peers are now reaching to the next ridiculous floating device in hopes of saving themselves and their pride from sinking into the abyss of absolute failure are now reaching outward into space! Boy oh boy. Desperate measures for desperate times!
Scientists have a fairly good idea of the multitude of chemical steps in putting together a DNA molecule; but, not only can DNA not be synthesized "by nature" at the seashore, highly trained technicians cannot do it in their million-dollar laboratories! If you took a cell and punctured it with a sterile needle, all the components would spill out. That cell would not put itself back together even in a perfect solution for a cell to live. So just because you have the components needed for cell life (and they dont even have that), its no good in and of itself. Those are just the facts. Creation by intelligent design is the only viable answer. Use your common sense and do some critical thinking. Scientists cant come remotely close to producing life, what makes you think life could spontaneously come from non life and be able to know to reproduce after its own kind? It doesnt even know what it is! Remember, evolution must start at the molecular level and it is meaningless, purposeless and has no intelligence. Its impossible!
Oh by the way, your argument from incredulity? Right back at ya!

 

[ArtieE]

Thanks for the link! But you couldnt have read the article I sent you, if you had you wouldnt have sent this one. In the link you sent, it says this;
"Scientists have debated for years the various possibilities that could have led to life evolving on Earth, and the arguments have only grown more heated in recent years as many have suggested that it did not happen here it all, instead, it was brought to us from comets or some other celestial body."
The text in blue says it all, its my point exactly. The text in red? You have got to be kidding me! The evolutionitis bug has reach the bottom with no where to go and science is proving it day by day. So now scientists who absolutely must not believe in God as creator and intelligent design or they will loose funding or tenure or respect from their fellow evolutionist peers are now reaching to the next ridiculous floating device in hopes of saving themselves and their pride from sinking into the abyss of absolute failure are now reaching outward into space! Boy oh boy. Desperate measures for desperate times!

The idea of panspermia is hardly new. It was proposed by Anaxagoras in the 5th century BC and in modern times first by Berzelius in 1834 long before Darwin published On the Origin of Species.

It would appear you don't know the difference between evolution and abiogenesis. Evolutionists are the people who believe life evolved. Their theories would work no matter whether life came from space or was created by gods or aliens or arose naturally on earth. You may have noticed that there are plenty of theists that are evolutionists. Abiogenesis is the theory of how life arose on earth. If you are saying that life couldn't have arisen on earth it's the abiogenesis people you are claiming are wrong, not evolutionists.