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Analysis of Roman Catholicism

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Thorwald Johansen

Member
I read the thread concerning whether or not RC is valid, and the various postings concerning this topic. We have to consider the validity of RC....is it Christian, or not?

One of the ten commandments, is, "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

Jesus told us, that we don't know how to pray, and thus, He gave us The Lord's Prayer. If you note, The Lord God Almighty, is the only one who we pray to. Jesus, Himself, never instructed us to pray to Himself, so we must glorify the Lord God Almighty, only. Compare this to the RC religion, where they create their own man-made 'saints', pray to them and to Mary, assuming they will provide intercession to God. This is against scripture. We know that The Holy Ghost makes intercession for us, and asking God for things in Christ's name, will provide intercession.

John 14:21-23 is an interesting set of scriptures. Do you know of any minister who has experienced this scripture [personal manifestation of (seeing) Christ]? These scripture verses are real/true. I have experienced them, and much more. Others have also.

Taking into account the above, should we not seek wisdom from God, directly, instead of allowing any minister to 'represent' us? Just a thought!
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Jesus never made the "sign of the cross" or prayed with Rosary beads. These are man made inventions. Did God give man the authority to do this?
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
The only individual who can definitively state if the RCC is "valid" is its claimed author and fountainhead - its god.

The rest of us can only give our personal opinions as to whether it is "valid" for us as individuals. It has no validity for me.
 
T

Thorwald Johansen

Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
Jesus never made the "sign of the cross" or prayed with Rosary beads. These are man made inventions. Did God give man the authority to do this?
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The various RC beliefs/practises are explained to the general public, as being instructions given to the church directly by the Apostles. There is no way to verify them, as being from God or not. These 'instructions' are not in the scriptures, but are assumed by RC to be valid 'additions'. This is the answer I got, when I communicated with various RC clergymen. Calling themselves 'Father' and 'Holy Father', is against scripture, also.

RC puts church clergymen on pedestals where they do not belong.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Thorwald Johansen said:
The various RC beliefs/practises are explained to the general public, as being instructions given to the church directly by the Apostles. There is no way to verify them, as being from God or not. These 'instructions' are not in the scriptures, but are assumed by RC to be valid 'additions'. This is the answer I got, when I communicated with various RC clergymen. Calling themselves 'Father' and 'Holy Father', is against scripture, also.

RC puts church clergymen on pedestals where they do not belong.
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One difference is that you, as a Protestant, uphold your scriptures as your final authority.

In many respects as I see it, they uphold their living apostles (bishops) as their final authority; and since the scriptures were given through the first apostles, I suppose they may reason that their living apostles are also superior to and authoritative over their scriptures (the latter of which does not only include the bible, but also other pronouncements by the living apostles/bishops).
 
T

Thorwald Johansen

Member
buddhist said:
The only individual who can definitively state if the RCC is "valid" is its claimed author and fountainhead - its god.

The rest of us can only give our personal opinions as to whether it is "valid" for us as individuals. It has no validity for me.
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columbus said:
No we most certainly do not. Catholicism is Christian period.
The RCC is huge, ancient, and has a ton of baggage. But it is definitely Christian.

It is much easier to take issue with Christianity itself than Catholicism.
Tom
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buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
syncretic said:
Dude... the original Apostles were tested on their prophecy etc...
you can't possibly think it's the same thing. That goes for most clergy, in general.

Different paradigms
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I'm not saying that's what I personally believe - I'm not Christian or Catholic.

I'm just stating what I perceive them to believe; e.g. that their laying on of hands, etc. transmits the apostolic office and authority.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Thorwald Johansen said:
If you change the Word of God, you worship a different god. The Word of God, IS GOD!!!!!
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I'd suspect that they might say that their bishop-apostles speak the "Word of God", just like the first apostles supposedly did. Besides, the Bible itself shows much evidence of change in the biblical god - many passages showing him repenting/changing, not to mention changing his first covenant into a newer covenant.
 
T

Thorwald Johansen

Member
buddhist said:
I'd suspect that they might say that their bishop-apostles speak the "Word of God", just like the first apostles supposedly did. Besides, the Bible itself shows much evidence of change in the biblical god - many passages showing him repenting/changing, not to mention changing his first covenant into a newer covenant.
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So the Apostles have been given the power [above Christ] to change The Word???? I doubt it. They are only 'messengers'. Apostles are 'anointed by God'. What proof does anyone have, that anyone within the RC church, has been 'anointed by God'? They are only 'teachers'. The original anointed Apostles are gone from this earth.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Thorwald Johansen said:
So the Apostles have been given the power [above Christ] to change The Word???? I doubt it. They are only 'messengers'. Apostles are 'anointed by God'. What proof does anyone have, that anyone within the RC church, has been 'anointed by God'? They are only 'teachers'. The original anointed Apostles are gone from this earth.
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What proof do we have today that the "original apostles" were anointed? ;)
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
syncretic said:
No, you're wrong. You didn't understand my answer, and asking the question, revealed to me, that you aren't reading Scripture in a manner that would give you the answer.
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Why should I uphold your scriptures as my final authority? I'm not even Christian :D
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
What proof do we have that the original Apostles even existed, much less believed and taught what modern Christians do?
Tom
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I don't have any proof. It was a rhetorical question from a non-Christian.

All I see for myself is one group claiming their book is right, and another group (presumably) claiming that their leaders are right.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
buddhist said:
I don't have any proof. It was a rhetorical question from a non-Christian.

All I see for myself is one group claiming their book is right, and another group (presumably) claiming that their leaders are right.
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It was a bit of a rhetorical answer really. Lots of the posters use Scripture to back up claims. Implausible claims that are only supportable to those who already accept the authority of Scripture, and more particularly their version of Scripture.
Tom
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Thorwald Johansen said:
If you change the Word of God, you worship a different god. The Word of God, IS GOD!!!!!
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With all due respect this is theological nonsense. The New Testament, despite being believed to be inspired by the Spirit, is not the word of God but accounts of spirit inspired human disciples of Christ about the activities of Jesus and the Spirit in the developing community, to be used as guides to future disciples to orient them in their own discipleship. The WORD was the Old Testament (see John) and has now been enfleshed in Jesus and continues in incarnate form as the Spirit within the living Christian community and hence is no longer in any book or writing. The evangelical literalists are doing what Jesus accused the pharisees as doing, confusing a guiding map with the actual territory and idolizing a book (as the Muslims do and the orthodox Jews do).
 
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