Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[Deeje]

Neither was the "wheat" of Jesus' parable sown in the 19th century.

No, because there has always been "wheat"...they were to grow together until the "harvest", when the two no longer resembled one another.
The harvest is very near when the weeds will be gathered up first and disposed of.

Jehovah has always had his witnesses. (Isaiah 43:10)

 

[Olinda]

apostate (n.)

mid-14c., "one who forsakes his religion or faith," from Old French apostate (Modern French apostat) and directly from Late Latin apostata, from Greek apostasia "defection, desertion, rebellion," from apostenai "to defect," literally "to stand off," fromapo- "away from" (see apo-) + stenai "to stand."

I gave you a definition Deeje, it’s you who are trying to give us a translation. I think I’m on pretty solid ground here.

BTW, since you say the bible states otherwise, can you provide us with the Greek or Hebrew word you’re translating into English as “apostate” so readers can actually see whether they agree?


I would never have brought up if you hadn’t first broached the subject at post #657. In fact, apostates and apostasy were the furthest things from my mind.

Also, I’m confused as to why you say this has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit when this Watchtower.org article tells us otherwise:

View attachment 14297​

Source

So first you told us that the Watchtower isn’t a prophet when it says it is, and now you claim apostasy has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit when the Watchtower says it does.

Obviously, this continues to raise some concerns and alarm bells, however unwarranted, regarding your claim to be a Jehovah Witness.

BTW, I’ve been told by other Witnesses that apostates are people who have come to know the truth but then deviate, or turn aside from the light provided by God’s "Spirit directed" organization. Do you agree, or would you still insist this is "off topic" because apostasy "...has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit"?

@Deeje , I've been following with interest. I especially look forward to your reply to this post from @Oeste !

 

[Deeje]

Are you admitting you don't know if you are in the truth or not, since only God and Jesus know?

I am admitting nothing. I said only Jesus knows who is a sheep and who is a goat...so that is not my call.
Labels do not matter with God because he knows the heart....we don't. That is why we preach to all without judging. It gives Jesus a basis upon which to render his judgment. Jesus is appointed to separate the sheep from the goats. To some, he grants everlasting life, (Matthew 25:34) and to others, he is going to give a stinging rejection. (Matthew 25:41; 46; Matthew 7:21-23) It will be those who have not removed themselves from Babylon the great who will suffer that rejection. If you adhere to doctrines that originate in Babylon, even if you do not claim to be any particular denomination, you are part of Babylon the great. (Revelation 18:4-5)

They sure do apply to me also, but I don't belong to any church or organization that claims to be God (Guardians Of Doctrine) or "substitutes" for Christ, and that if I don't belong to the group they started, I have no hope of salvation.

If anyone is not obedient to the teachings of Christ, regardless of their attachments, they have no hope of salvation. That applies to all who claim to be Christians...including me.
It doesn't matter what you call yourself...its what Jesus calls you that matters. He does not deal with individuals who have formed their very own religion. How do you apply Hebrews 13:17? Are you keeping watch over your own soul then?

I see it this way, the 'slave' claims that the Covenant Jesus made with the Apostles was "only with them" the anointed, because He was speaking to them, so when Jesus was speaking to the Apostles about preaching the Gospel, it meant for just them to preach, because He was speaking to them.

Yes he was back then, but as the anointed dwindle in number, (because they are a finite number, they must) the "other sheep" render assistance by taking their place out in the field. It is the duty of all Christians to preach. Since the last of the apostles died at the end of the first century, and the numbers of the anointed must become fewer and fewer as they leave this earthly scene and take up their positions as kings and priests in heaven, (Revelation 20:6) those of the earthly class who will survive the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14) carry on with the global preaching right to the end....are you doing that djh?
Are you single-handedly preaching to the whole world?

And every name for Jesus is recorded in the Bible, and not one of them was Michael!

Which is why it isn't a doctrine for JW's. It is a belief without a direct statement....just like the trinity, but we don't make a song and dance about it or build our whole belief system on it...we just believe it is true because of what is said in other parts of the Bible...which have already been discussed with you in detail. It is a distinct possibility because Jesus is not, and never has been Almighty God.

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje , I've been following with interest. I especially look forward to your reply to this post from @Oeste !

You want popcorn?

Its a long thread.....

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No, because there has always been "wheat"...they were to grow together until the "harvest", when the two no longer resembled one another.
The harvest is very near when the weeds will be gathered up first and disposed of.

I wonder about a Gardener who knows everything and yet doesn't know the difference between a crop and basic grass. Of course, this is the God who had to have blood smeared on the doors to identify HIS OWN PEOPLE prior to a rebellion. Oh well.

I said only Jesus knows who is a sheep and who is a goat...so that is not my call.

But goats are cute. Who doesn't like goats?

It will be those who have not removed themselves from Babylon the great who will suffer that rejection. If you adhere to doctrines that originate in Babylon, even if you do not claim to be any particular denomination, you are part of Babylon the great. (Revelation 18:4-5)

I agree that many denominations will have a talking to from God. I just add one more denomination than you do, I think.

He does not deal with individuals who have formed their very own religion.

Well, there goes just about all of them.

Are you single-handedly preaching to the whole world?

I would much rather let my light shine and leave the marketing to God. Far too many salespeople are peddling religious ideas that are simply going to get people in trouble. I also want to see preaching that does NOT include the seemingly obligatory demand to join a particular congregation. It screams self-serving, to me. I would much rather say what the Light means to me and for people to search their hearts and follow the path they feel is right for them, even if it's not the path I took or even anything close to the path I took.

 

[james2ko]

Sorry, but there is not one verse in the whole of scripture that gives Jesus the name that belongs exclusively to his God and Father.

Don't apologize, you're actually right. There is not one verse that gives Jesus the name that belongs exclusively to his God and Father, but several (Psalms 110:1,5; Matthew 22:43-45--Peschitta). Again, it does not make Him "The" Jehovah, but the scriptures clearly indicate He is also identified by the family name as "a" Jehovah (Ephesians 3:14-15).

In the Lord's Prayer Jesus said "hallowed by THY name"...not "hallowed be OUR name".

Christ also said "Your" kingdom come, which Christ indicated elsewhere was also His own (Luke 22:30; John 18:36). Utilizing your inadequate reasoning, Christ should have also said "our" kingdom come. It is obvious Christ emphasized a focus toward his Father, not himself, which did not exclude him from also being "a" Jehovah. Just as it did not exclude the kingdom from also being his own.

Almighty God has one name YHWH (Jehovah" Exodus 3:15 ASV)....Jesus has many names all of them given to him by his God...YHWH isn't one of them.

The context actually states His name [shem] is "I AM" or "I will be" (Ehyeh-Exodus 3:13-14). His "shem" is also "Jealous" (Exodus 34:14). If Jehovah has only one shem, this entity speaking cannot be the only one named Jehovah. Yet, as you claim, this entity identifies Himself exclusively as Jehovah. Have you once again tangled yourself in your own net?

I sort of get the feeling I made your ignore list (physically or mentally). If so, that is perfectly understandable. You are certainly not the first and will not be the last. No human being likes to face the truth when they have believed lies (inadvertent or otherwise) for 40+ years. For the benefit of lurkers, I will continue posting rebuttals to your rhetoric as the spirit guides me.

If you have placed me on ignore, keep in mind, "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him (Pro 18:17).

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The sheep are led one way...the goats are led another. Which is which?

Only God and his appointed judge knows.

Are you admitting you don't know if you are in the truth or not, since only God and Jesus know?

I am admitting nothing. I said only Jesus knows who is a sheep and who is a goat...so that is not my call.

So you don't know if you're a sheep or a goat? Like I asked, are you admitting, that you don't know if what you are taught and believe is the truth, since you don't know if you are a sheep or a goat?

Labels do not matter with God because he knows the heart....we don't. That is why we preach to all without judging. It gives Jesus a basis upon which to render his judgment.

You believe that "preaching to all" is what gives Jesus a "basis upon which to render His judgement"?

I believe it to be this,

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (ESV Strong's) 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jehovah has always had his witnesses. (Isaiah 43:10)

Then why, when God and Jesus came to inspect the churches and found the Bible students to be the faithful ones, did Rutherford decide he needed to get away from them and start his own little church? If God has "always" had His witnesses, why are there "Jehovah's Witnesses" which was started by one man? Why weren't these witnesses organized before Rutherford came on scene?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Daniel did Not use the name Jesus - Daniel 12:1 - as the great prince standing up at the future time - Daniel 12:2,13

Because he wasn't talking about Jesus in that verse, so why would he use the name Jesus? Look at Daniel 10:5-9,

Daniel 10:5-9 (ESV Strong's) 5 I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude. 7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision, but a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves. 8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision, and no strength was left in me. My radiant appearance was fearfully changed, and I retained no strength. 9 Then I heard the sound of his words, and as I heard the sound of his words, I fell on my face in deep sleep with my face to the ground.

Who is David describing in verse 6? It isn't Michael.

The man David described in verses 6, said to David,

Daniel 10:12-13 (ESV Strong's) 12 Then he said to me, “Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. 13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me

The man described in verses 6 was the one that said Michael would stand up in 12:1

 

[Deeje]

I sort of get the feeling I made your ignore list (physically or mentally). If so, that is perfectly understandable. You are certainly not the first and will not be the last. No human being likes to face the truth when they have believed lies (inadvertent or otherwise) for 40+ years. For the benefit of lurkers, I will continue posting rebuttals to your rhetoric as the spirit guides me.

There is actually no point in responding to some of the things you post, James. I don't have you on ignore, I just think what you postulate is nonsense...but then you think what I post is nonsense, so why bother? Be as right as you feel you are...it isn't my place to burst your bubble.

There is a "spirit" that directs all of us, but we know that there is more than one spirit. Whose spirit directs you? Whose spirit directs me? Let's see.....we will have that question answered soon enough.

If you have placed me on ignore, keep in mind, "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him (Pro 18:17).

...you flatter yourself...are you "the other one" in your own estimations? Who am I to argue?

Don't apologize, you're actually right. There is not one verse that gives Jesus the name that belongs exclusively to his God and Father, but several (Psalms 110:1,5; Matthew 22:43-45--Peschitta). Again, it does not make Him "The" Jehovah, but the scriptures clearly indicate He is also identified by the family name as "a" Jehovah (Ephesians 3:14-15).

That response is an example of the nonsense.

Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Genesis 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

Is there a relationship between Father and son?....there usually is and do they belong to the same "family"..again that is the case usually. What you describe makes Jesus "a theos" not THE theos".

Christ also said "Your" kingdom come, which Christ indicated elsewhere was also His own (Luke 22:30; John 18:36). Utilizing your inadequate reasoning, Christ should have also said "our" kingdom come. It is obvious Christ emphasized a focus toward his Father, not himself, which did not exclude him from also being "a" Jehovah. Just as it did not exclude the kingdom from also being his own.

Again this is nonsense.

There is no such thing as "a" Jehovah. (see above) That is your own personal take on things.
It IS God's kingdom, but Jesus is the King appointed to rule in it, which makes it his kingdom too. He shares rulership with his Father, always under his instruction as he was on earth.

The context actually states His name [shem] is "I AM" or "I will be" (Ehyeh-Exodus 3:13-14). His "shem" is also "Jealous" (Exodus 34:14). If Jehovah has only one shem, this entity speaking cannot be the only one named Jehovah. Yet, as you claim, this entity identifies Himself exclusively as Jehovah. Have you once again tangled yourself in your own net?

Or you are attempting to catch people in a net that has no mesh.

How on earth can you make that statement true when there is no verse in the Bible that supports it?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because he wasn't talking about Jesus in that verse, so why would he use the name Jesus? Look at Daniel 10:5-9,
Daniel 10:5-9 (ESV Strong's) 5 I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude. 7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision, but a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves. 8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision, and no strength was left in me. My radiant appearance was fearfully changed, and I retained no strength. 9 Then I heard the sound of his words, and as I heard the sound of his words, I fell on my face in deep sleep with my face to the ground.
Who is David describing in verse 6? It isn't Michael.
The man David described in verses 6, said to David,
Daniel 10:12-13 (ESV Strong's) 12 Then he said to me, “Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. 13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me
The man described in verses 6 was the one that said Michael would stand up in 12:1

I did Not refer to Daniel chap. 10 but to the later chapter of Daniel 12 when Jesus becomes the ' great prince ' and Not just one of the chief princes in chapter 10.
Jesus did Not ' stand up ', so to speak, while on Earth. He became one of the chief princes around that time until the coming time of action.
Jesus will ' stand up ' in action at the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33; Daniel 12
Jesus had to wait to become THE ' chief prince or great prince '.- Daniel 12
( David prefigured Jesus as Messiah - Ezekiel 34:23-24, and David will become a future ' prince ' on Earth - Isaiah 32:1; Psalms 45:16 ).
Jesus had to wait - Psalms 110; Matthew 24:30; Hebrews 10:13; Revelation 12:7; Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 26:20; Joel 2:31; Revelation 7:14

So, Michael ( Jude 1:9 ) helps the angel in Daniel 10:13
But in Daniel 12 Michael stands up (in action) at our now the ' time of the end ' and beyond, to end all badness on Earth.

 

[Deeje]

So you don't know if you're a sheep or a goat? Like I asked, are you admitting, that you don't know if what you are taught and believe is the truth, since you don't know if you are a sheep or a goat?

No....for the second time....I am saying that the designation of a sheep or a goat is made by Jesus, not me. If I am "doing the will of the Father" I have nothing to worry about, but if I only think I am, regardless of what label I put on myself, then the rude shock awaits those who are goats but who assume that they are sheep. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Then why, when God and Jesus came to inspect the churches and found the Bible students to be the faithful ones, did Rutherford decide he needed to get away from them and start his own little church? If God has "always" had His witnesses, why are there "Jehovah's Witnesses" which was started by one man? Why weren't these witnesses organized before Rutherford came on scene?

Why do you comment on things you know nothing about?

There was a lesson for those of the Bible Students who began to follow the man and not the Christ. Our loyalties cannot be divided so we no longer rely on one man to do anything in our organization. There is always a body of men as there was in the first century. We adjust as we learn.

Rutherford was a different kind of leader who made it clear that we follow Jesus Christ, so those who followed the man stayed where they were and did not progress and do not preach about God's Kingdom "in all the inhabited earth" as Jesus instructed...in fact, most people do not even know that they exist.

The "Witnesses" that God raised up through history have always revealed something about God's unfolding purpose. His Witnesses today have one message for all mankind, whether they listen is not up to us....we are just the messengers and it is this "witness" that forms the basis for Jesus to judge us. (Matthew 24:14)
Are you out on a limb all by yourself djh,

if so, how do you point people in the right direction if you have no brotherhood and no leaders? Are you a church of one, who is single-handedly going to preach to all the world? How do you meet with fellow believers who accept what you accept as truth? (Heb 10:34-35; 1 Corinthians 1:10) How do you obey those leaders when you don't have any? (Heb 13:17)

God does not operate through loners who formulate their own beliefs....he operates through one group of individuals who all live by the same standards and have the same beliefs....all of them set by his word. He is a God of order, not chaos.

 

[james2ko]

There is actually no point in responding to some of the things you post, James. I don't have you on ignore, I just think what you postulate is nonsense...but then you think what I post is nonsense, so why bother? Be as right as you feel you are...it isn't my place to burst your bubble.

1. I knew that would finally invoke a response. You are so predictable. Calling my replies nonsense and conceding there's no point in responding is indicative of "cognitive dissonance".

The behavior "...is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual..."usually caused when, "......confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values....source. It's perfectly normal. Just take a deep breath then exhale slowly and you'll be just fine.

...you flatter yourself...are you "the other one" in your own estimations? Who am I to argue?

2. Good to see you've finally brought your self-righteous, Pharisaical attitude down a notch. Good girl.

Is there a relationship between Father and son?....there usually is and do they belong to the same "family"..again that is the case usually. What you describe makes Jesus "a theos" not THE theos".

3. And what the Peschitta of Matthew 22:43-45 from Psalms 110:1,5 is describing makes Jesus "a" Jehovah.

That response is an example of the nonsense. Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Genesis 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

4. The real nonsensical response is the fact EL, elohim, or God do not appear in the verses from which you are responding (Psalms 110:1, 5 and Matthew 22:43:45). A perfect example of JW's canned, irrelevant responses. You know Christ called Himself Jehovah in the Peschitta of Matthew 22:43-45 and you can't admit it because it would make you and your organization look really bad. What a shame.

Again this is nonsense. There is no such thing as "a" Jehovah. (see above) That is your own personal take on things. It IS God's kingdom, but Jesus is the King appointed to rule in it, which makes it his kingdom too. He shares rulership with his Father, always under his instruction as he was on earth.

5. So according to your own poor reasoning, why didn't Jesus say "our" kingdom come?

Or you are attempting to catch people in a net that has no mesh. How on earth can you make that statement true when there is no verse in the Bible that supports it?

6. I quote Exodus 3:13-14 and Exodus 34:14 debunking the lie about Jehovah being His "only" name and you reply with an ad hominem and a nonsense reply of quoting no supporting verses ??? More evidence of cognitive dissonance. The sad part is you'll continue spreading the lie.

There is a "spirit" directs all of us, but we know that there is more than one spirit. Whose spirit directs you? Whose spirit directs me? Let's see.....we will have that question answered soon enough.

7. Based on your responses, it seems there may be a spirit of deceit in your midst. This soon enough for ya...

 

[Deeje]

1. I knew that would finally invoke a response. You are so predictable. Calling my replies nonsense and conceding there's no point in responding is indicative of "cognitive dissonance".

So you are baiting me now...and you wonder why I don't respond....?

Your ego is bigger than mine...I admit it.

Based on your responses, it seems there may be a spirit of deceit in your midst. This soon enough for ya...

So you are my judge and jury now too....OK....whatever floats your boat. I didn't even read what was in between 1 and 7.

Bye.....

 

[Olinda]

Thanks, @Deeje (munch). It is a long thread and covers a lot of area, but I'm sure you'll get to it!

 

[james2ko]

So you are baiting me now...and you wonder why I don't respond....?

I don't have to wonder. The reason you don't respond is the same reason the pompous, elitist religious leaders stop responding to Jesus---someone came along and proved them wrong after thinking they were the only truth in town and they didn't like it. Neither do you.

Your ego is bigger than mine...I admit it.

I think it's more like the truth I present is bigger than yours and it's making you feel uncomfortable and your self-confessed, inflated ego will never allow you to admit it.

So you are my judge and jury now too....OK....whatever floats your boat. I didn't even read what was in between 1 and 7.

That's because after 40+ years of believing a lie the truth is difficult to face. Nevertheless, still love ya, though--in a tough, brotherly way..

 

[djhwoodwerks]

If I am "doing the will of the Father" I have nothing to worry about, but if I only think I am, regardless of what label I put on myself, then the rude shock awaits those who are goats but who assume that they are sheep

Aren't "all" members of the org a priest and a teacher? What did Paul say about that?

1 Corinthians 12:17-20 (ESV Strong's) 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

1 Corinthians 12:27-30 (ESV Strong's) 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

Why do you comment on things you know nothing about?

There was a lesson for those of the Bible Students who began to follow the man and not the Christ. Our loyalties cannot be divided so we no longer rely on one man to do anything in our organization. There is always a body of men as there was in the first century. We adjust as we learn.

It seems as if I know more that you about this topic. I am able to research it, you're not allowed to. All you know about Rutherford is what has not been hidden by the 'slave'.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I did Not refer to Daniel chap. 10 but to the later chapter of Daniel 12 when Jesus becomes the ' great prince ' and Not just one of the chief princes in chapter 10.

Exactly, you use chapter 12 to say that Jesus "becomes" the great prince, without considering Who's talking to Daniel in chapter 10. How can Jesus "become" the great prince, when He is "now" King of kings? Will He get a demotion for a little while and then become King again?

 

[james2ko]

2 Timothy 4:1 The Kingdom is referred to as Jesus's. Again, this means that there isn't a distinction in Kingship. Unless there is more than one Kingdom,, Jesus is JHVH / It makes sense if Jesus is JHVH, it makes sense if Jesus is God, and it makes sense if there is one Kingdom.

Mat 26:29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."​

This is Jesus speaking. I believe the kingdom will also belong to the Father.

There is only 'one God'.The distinction between the 'father', and the 'son', is one of form, aspect.This is clear because, there is only one Kingship /only one God.And, matches what Jesus directly tells us , that He is one with the father / John 10:30 Technically, the correct word for this belief, is modalism. //one God, different aspects or forms.So, if you are making a distinction in Kingship, or 'persons', i respectfully have to disagree.

Since the kingdom will also be the Father's, I believe the Father will also be King (1 Timothy 1:17;1 Timothy 6:15-16) and Christ co-regent king with subordinate kings under Christ. (Revelation 17:14)

​

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is only 'one God'.
This is clear because, there is only one Kingship /only one God.
And, matches what Jesus directly tells us , that He is one with the father / John 10:30

Who is greater according to Jesus at John 10:29 ? ______
Who is greater according to Jesus at John 14:28 ? ______

Is Jesus praying we all become God at John 17:11 B ; John 17:21-23 ? ______
Or is Jesus praying we all be ' one ' in unity, purpose, goal, agreement, union, etc., but Not that we all be 'one' God.

After the thousand years, who does Jesus hand back the kingdom to according to 1 Corinthians 15:24 ? ______

What is Jesus' heavenly position according to Revelation 3:12; Revelation 3:21 ? ______________________