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Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

Animore

Active Member
Please read this in full. Take your time. It's not a challenge just giving you an insight.



This would all have to rest on if the opposing party believes scripture is a common foundation to build our debate on. Since scripture isn't a universal means to establish debates (but personal, by no means), are there other sources that support your points about whether he is delusional, teacher, messiah, or true messiah?

Then, once you find the sources that "say" this, can you cross-reference these claims with miracles that take place that are not based on synchronicity and a person's belief?

For example, I am a Spiritualist (I commune with the spirits for lack of better words). I follow The Buddha (not formally a Buddhist yet), I believe that our source of knowledge and what we perceive as the heart are from the mind. That's our foundation.

I can give you testimony of my grandmothers holding me back from getting hit by a car. I can give you a testimony that my prayers to the spirits helped my father in his health from liver failure.

What does that mean to you in a debate?

Even more so, I can give you sutras (Buddha's discourses) that explain the nature of life and where our motivations etc come from. I can explain the role of what a Buddha is from a Mahayana perspective. I can even relate it to reality.

What does this mean to you?

In the former, I can't give you outside sources that support my point just as you can't with god. Spirits and god (and Jesus/spirit/god) does not exist the way we can prove it historically. We can only say "other people say this" or say "because X happened then it must be true."

What does that mean to other people here that will challenge your OP?

On the other hand, I can back up Buddhist teachings with outside sources and how it relates to reality even if people don't see it from the teachings of The Buddha.

That can't be done in Christianity. Buddhism is a mind-faith. Christianity is a heart-faith.

So to say you can claim Jesus/spirit/god exists historically is a claim just as Paul made a claim and every other person.

Once we realize these spirit-tual beliefs are personal and not objective (like Buddhism), then we don't need to find ways for others to understand why and how they exist and are true. They come from us (or from god or from Joe Smoe). Once we stop making people understand spirit-uality, then what is there more to say?
You make an honest point, and I can respect your beliefs. It is a fair point when you say you can't prove a religion that stems from the heart, and I get that. Thanks for the input.
 

Animore

Active Member
Everyone, I apologize if I seem lie I'm attacking any of you. This was not my intention. I'm going to stop replying, you can't really prove a religion that stems from the heart. God bless.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Everyone, I apologize if I seem lie I'm attacking any of you. This was not my intention. I'm going to stop replying, you can't really prove a religion that stems from the heart. God bless.

It's alright to talk about it and how you feel about it, etc. Outside of RF, it's alright to evangelize in a healthy manner to those who want to listen. Just be mindful that not everyone will understand and/or accept what you believe. As long as both sides are open to communication, then you're fine.
 

von bek

Well-Known Member
Everyone, I apologize if I seem lie I'm attacking any of you. This was not my intention. I'm going to stop replying, you can't really prove a religion that stems from the heart. God bless.

Check out the threads here on RF. Some debates get pretty heated, downright nasty at times. There is a pretty diverse group of religions represented in the forum. Miscommunication and misunderstandings occur.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Everyone, I apologize if I seem lie I'm attacking any of you. This was not my intention. I'm going to stop replying, you can't really prove a religion that stems from the heart. God bless.
Does this mean you're leaving RF?
I hope not.
There are lots of other threads.
Tom
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A question just out of the blue. If there is historical evidence for Jesus, what would that mean for people of other faiths and/or lack thereof?

If my friend and mother wrote stories about me and how they relate to me, and even wrote of the miraculous things I did in 2016, and then in the year 4355 a group of people looked at the crusted work my family and friends wrote, and they think "lo! and behold! We have found the Messiah."

I exist. So what? How does my mother and friend's claims support the facts of what I did? They can write their relation to me, experience, et cetera but it's all personal. It's not historical. Maybe an archaeologist may find one of my slippers laying in the dusk, and, like the book they found, what does that mean? How does that prove anything happened beyond my existence from the archaeologist finding and the stories and personal experiences from my mother's and friend's view?

Of course it may be personal to the people who look at me as the Messiah but why go beyond that? What is the need to prove that I historically exist? and even if they found my shoe, why is there a need to prove just because I exist, what my mother and friend claims I did is true?

If we made up an example, what examples would someone give to that will prove what my mother and friend says is true?

and even more so

what does that mean to the person who believes something different?
 

meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
A question just out of the blue. If there is historical evidence for Jesus, what would that mean for people of other faiths and/or lack thereof?

If my friend and mother wrote stories about me and how they relate to me, and even wrote of the miraculous things I did in 2016, and then in the year 4355 a group of people looked at the crusted work my family and friends wrote, and they think "lo! and behold! We have found the Messiah."

I exist. So what? How does my mother and friend's claims support the facts of what I did? They can write their relation to me, experience, et cetera but it's all personal. It's not historical. Maybe an archaeologist may find one of my slippers laying in the dusk, and, like the book they found, what does that mean? How does that prove anything happened beyond my existence from the archaeologist finding and the stories and personal experiences from my mother's and friend's view?

Of course it may be personal to the people who look at me as the Messiah but why go beyond that? What is the need to prove that I historically exist? and even if they found my shoe, why is there a need to prove just because I exist, what my mother and friend claims I did is true?

If we made up an example, what examples would someone give to that will prove what my mother and friend says is true?

and even more so

what does that mean to the person who believes something different?
They may or would not trust
mark has its burning.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems you're blind. The scripture is my historical proof, but just for you, I'll add more. I'll get back to you.
Surely you have seen a movie. The scriptures about Jesus might be a production, a story. I do not believe Jesus must be real as in scripture to believe in him.
Why is it necessary, according to you?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Hello everyone. This is my first. Please don't hate. I've come not just to establish an old-fashioned debate, but to help some people establish some faith and maybe help someone through a tough time. First off, obviously, the debate is going to be centered around Jesus, the existence of Him (I say Him because it is my OP, and it is my personal beliefs that He is God) as God, as well as the Son of God, as well as overwhelming historical, theological, archaeological, and scientific evidence favoring the proof of God. Let's start with the simple one.
Just wanted to point out a few problems.
Let's start out with your inability to recognize what constituents a proof text.

#1: The Scripture

Now, this is an obvious one. Obviously the Scriptures. I know, it's not the best start, but it's laying down the foundations. Let's start with the prophecies.

The Messiah will be the offspring (descendant) of the woman (Eve) Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4
Genesis 3:15 doesn't mention anything about a messiah. Whatsoever. In fact, its actually saying that people would hate snakes. And snakes would bite people. That's all its saying. Its only your NT that reinterpreted the verse into a messianic prophecy. But the actual verse has nothing to do with that and this is apparent from the lack of mention of a key point: a messiah.

The Messiah will be a descendant of Abraham, through whom everyone on earth will be blessed Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Acts 3:25,26
And of course again, there's no mention of any messiah here as well. The verse is actually quite vague about how the nations of the world would be blessed through Abraham. But there's no reason to assume it has anything to do with a messiah. Maybe if you mention his name at the local Bazaar you get 10% off. Couldn't really prove that to be wrong. And of course NT verses don't count because they were written after the fact with the self-serving intent of reading Jesus into the text.

The Messiah will be a descendant of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:2 and Luke 3:33
Not really sure why you feel it necessary to interpret this verse as referring to the Messiah. Its obviously a reference to when David would be crowned king, after the Tabernacle that was at Shiloh is destroyed. The word "come" in the phrase "until Shiloh comes" can also mean to "come to a close", as in Isa. 60:20.
Of course, Luke isn't going to help here.

The Messiah will be a prophet like Moses Deuteronomy 18:15-19 Acts 3:22,23
I don't know how it is in your Bible, but in my book, there's no mention about a messiah whatsoever. This prophecy was already long fulfilled in Joshua and every subsequent prophet. Its barely even a prophecy as much as G-d letting everyone know how things are going to be running for a while. Acts of course not with any standing.

The Messiah will be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
This is even more confusing. David wrote the Psalms. Why in the world would you think its talking about the Messiah and not David who is writing it... Of course Luke won't be very helpful here either.

The Messiah will be raised from the dead (resurrected) Psalm 16:10,11 Matthew 28:5-9; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:4-7; John 20:11-16; Acts 1:3 and 2:32
The Messiah will what?!?! Have you read this Psalm? What happened to the first words of the Psalm: "A letter of David"? There's nowhere in the Psalm where he mentions that he's speaking for someone else. This is very odd. Although not as odd as a bunch of NT prophecies that were written after the fact being used to prove the fact.

The Messiah crucifixion experience Psalm 22 (contains 11 prophecies—not all listed here) Matthew 27:34-50 and John 19:17-30
This one must have been a mistake, since the crucifixion is mentioned even once in the whole Psalm! I'm sure you meant some other...I don't know.

The Messiah will be sneered at and mocked Psalm 22:7 Luke 23:11,35-39
No, this is David who has this problem. That's...that's why the Psalm starts off "A Psalm of David". He's writing about his experiences. You know, he actually didn't lead such a great life. Not sure what your thing with Luke is all about.

The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39;
Well this is embarrassing. You've made a mistake in the translation here. כארי ידי ורגלי means "like a lion [at] my hands and feet." Meaning his hands and feet are being broken as though bitten by a lion. The same term is found in Isa. 38:13 שויתי עד בקר כארִי כן ישבר כל עצמותי "[As] I make myself until morning like a lion, so all my bones break". It could happen to anyone, don't feel bad. Although I'd start getting embarrassed at all these Luke quotes...

John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27
The forgotten quotes.

The Messiah’s bones will not be broken (a person’s legs were usually broken after being crucified to speed up their death) Psalm 22:17 and 34:20 John 19:31-33,36
Well, Psalm 20 is obviously not saying that, as we've already established that it was David talking, not the Messiah. It also doesn't mention anything about bones not being broken. But we won't let silly points like that get in the way.
As for Psalm 34, I'm not sure how to tell you this, but David is actually making a comparison to how G-d treats the righteous and the wicked. I'm not sure how you didn't catch that. Not having his bones broken is part of the way G-d protects the righteous. Not one of the righteous' bones are broken, but the wicked are killed by evil. See its a comparison. Kind of a weird place to squeeze in a Messiah.
We'll just pretend you didn't quote John, since that's not going to be very helpful.

Men Will Gamble for the Messiah’s clothing Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23,24
Somehow we ended up back at Psalm 22!! I thought we had already moved on! Right, so uhm... this was the Psalm that David clearly wrote his name on, so lets just move on...
The Messiah will accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:59,60 and Mark 14:56,57

The Messiah will be hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 and 69:4 John 15:23-25
I'm really sorry to keep having to point this out, but you may not have noticed the opening line of the Psalm "A Psalm of David, Fight [O] G-d, my fights..." Right. Its David talking here. That's David. He's the one, well, he's the one that actually wrote most of these Psalms. So for later proofs, you may want to read the...you know, the whole chapter. So that you get an idea of who the person that's doing the talking is. This way you'll also be able to get an idea of who the subject is.

The Messiah will be betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 John 13:18,21
I'm not sure if your familiar with tenses, but this verse was written in the past tense. And since David wrote it (as we can see from the title), it would have happened way before Jesus was even a twinkle in a soldiers eye. So let's just chalk this Psalm up to more complaining by David and keep going.

The Messiah will ascend to heaven (at the right hand of God) Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9; 2:33-35; 3:20-21; 5:31,32; 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20,21; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet 3:22 . . . list goes on an on.
You have to admit, this one really doesn't make any sense. In the context we see David describing things going on in the desert. Do we know of any event in the desert where someone went "up" took something and brought it back down for people, some of whom may have often been rebellious? If you guessed Jesus, you're wrong! It was Moses. Yes. Moses went up a mountain and he brought back down the Torah which he proceeded to teach Israel. They were known to be rebellious.

The Messiah will be given vinegar and gall to drink Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23; John 19:29,30
Gosh! What's with you and reading the messiah into everything?!? Don't forget to read the title of the Psalm and keep an eye out for personal pronouns in the first person!!!

Great kings will pay homage and tribute to the Messiah Psalm 72:10,11 Matthew 2:1-11

Hmmm. You may have missed the opening line where Solomon claims this work and then prays for the "son of the king", who is - obviously - himself, the son of king David. Its easy to miss, so don't worry.

The Messiah is a “stone the builders rejected” who will become the “head cornerstone” Psalm 118:22,23 and Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42,43; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-8
This verse is pretty vague. There doesn't seem to be any reason to interpret it as referring to the Messiah. Seems like it could be talking about David just as easily. Or even Israel really. Let's just skip this one.

The Messiah will be a descendant of David Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16 Luke 1:32,33
Welllll!!!! There's something we can agree on. Although you kind of ruined it with Psa. 132. That verse is talking about all of David's progeny that say on the throne, obviously. Not just one individual. So it doesn't really say anything about a messiah. But hey, the rest is good!!

The Messiah will be a born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
Oh, a common mistake among Christians. Don't feel bad, a lot of you guys make this mistake. But the word actually just means "young woman" without any indication of her virginal status. Some times it clearly refers to a virgin, but sometimes it doesn't. Pro. 30:19 would be an example of that.

The Messiah’s first spiritual work will be in Galilee Isaiah 9:1-7 Matthew 4:12-16
This is confusing. How did you get from a prophecy about Hezekiah being a good king, to a Jesus in the Galilee. It doesn't even mention the Galilee...

The Messiah will make the blind see, the deaf hear, etc. Isaiah 35:5-6 Many places. Also see Matthew 11:3-6 and John 11:47
Hey! Its another thing we can agree on! Cool!!

Cont...
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
The Messiah will be beaten, mocked, and spat upon Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67 and 27:26-31
I thought we were doing well and then you go and ruin it! This is Isaiah talking. Its his book of prophecies, remember!!

The “Gospel according to Isaiah” Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
You see, this is weird, because Isaiah is clearly referring to Israel but MMLJ usually talk about Jesus. Not sure what happened there...

People will hear and not believe the “arm of the LORD” (Messiah) Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37,38
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah will be rejected Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 27:20-25; Mark 15:8-14; Luke 23:18-23; John 19:14,15
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah will be killed Isaiah 53:5-9 Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37-39; Luke 23:46; John 19:30
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah will be silent in front of his accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 26:62,63 and 27:12-14
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah will be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:59,60; Mark 15:46; Luke 23:52,53; John 19:38-42
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah will be crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32,33
No, Isaiah is referring to Israel here.

The Messiah is part of the new and everlasting covenant Isaiah 55:3-4 and Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13
The Messiah has nothing to do with the new covenant. That's just silly.

The Messiah will be our intercessor (intervene for us and plead on our behalf) Isaiah 59:16 Hebrews 9:15
Its a nice thought, but the verse doesn't actually say that. It has G-d seeing that there is no one to pray for Israel, and so G-d does the saving without anyone praying for it. Isn't that a great kindness?

The Messiah has two missions Isaiah 61:1-3 (first mission ends at “. . . year of the LORD’s favor”) First mission: Luke 4:16-21; Second mission: to be fulfilled at the end of the world
What a mess! This is Isaiah talking again. He's the one who's spreading these wonderful prophecies to a downtrodden people. Don't make stuff up! Read the words!!!

The Messiah will come at a specific time Daniel 9:25-26 Galatians 4:4 and Ephesians 1:10
Well, its true that the Messiah will come on a specific date, as it would be impossible for someone to not do an act in a finite period of time. But that has nothing to do with Daniel

The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:4-7
You silly guy, you. That's David's home town, not the Messiah's!! The Messiah is often called the "son of David", so he's also the son of the guy from Bethlehem. What a silly mistake.
The Messiah will enter Jerusalem riding a donkey Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:1-11
Well, you're not wrong exactly, but I wonder if you really understood what Zecharia was saying.

The Messiah will be sold for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12,13 Matthew 26:15 with Matthew 27:3-10
This was a parable. I think you may have missed that.

The Messiah will forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7 Matthew 26:31,56
You may want to go through that passage again. This passage is talking about false prophets trying to blend into society during a time that people will reject false prophets.

The Messiah will enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1 Matthew 21:12 and Luke 19:45
I think you didn't read the verse well. It says that G-d will send and angel (probably Elijah considering the last verse) to clear house. And then G-d will enter the House. Nothing there about a Messiah entering the Temple with authority.

There, after e got all of those clobber passages out of the way, if you're still not convinced, let's just look for a moment at the similarities of the gospels proclaimed in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I added in this bit because it's important to note that many people point out contradictions in the Bible. (Really, they aren't contradictions, but just aren't specific quoting, noted by the punctuation in early Scripture, but that's not important) The gospels are similar in a huge variety of ways, but just different enough to tell they had different witnesses.
Didn't really see anything important there.

#2 Who could He be?

So it always has come down to three possibilities of who Jesus is...

-A liar
-A delusional psychotic
-Someone who never made claims of Messiahship
-The one true Messiah, the Christ come into the world

Well let's assess the first possibility, that he is a liar.

There's a simple answer to this one: he couldn't be a great teacher if he was liar. Yes, theoretically, he could just make up some phony bologna parables and life lessons and pretend to follow him, but there's key point that takes that out: all those around saw that He had committed no sin. That would mean he followed some moral philosophy, and it would make perfect sense if it would be what He preached.
As has been claimed about Muhammad and the Bab. Maybe they're all telling the truth?

So now that we saw that He wasn't a liar, let's go on to the next possibility- delusions.

A simple answer for this as well. In all of the times the disciples and citizens of each town saw him, there was no evidence to show that he suffered from any mental disorder. The only argument for this would be that, supposedly, the burning passion for God's house is only a symptom o his disorder. Except all that was described that in an act of burning desire to purify God's house, He trashed the area in righteous anger. He did not attack anyone, and if he did it was to get them out of the temple.
Well, let's just be clear. The people who wrote the gospels wouldn't have really known about people's reactions since they're writing way after the fact.

Now let's look at the third possibility-He never made claims of Messiah-ship.

To give a rebuttal to this point, we must give a quick look at Jesus dying at the cross. Just a quick fact: two atheist historians concluded that Jesus's dying on the cross is an actual certainty. Well, why did He die on the cross? Because of His claims of Messiah-ship.
Oh, he definitely claimed it.

That leaves only one possibility left: He is the chosen Messiah.

I'm going to abruptly end this now. Ready for hate replies.
That doesn't follow at all.

Just want to say, that I'm just trying to help people fix their faith.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
I do not doubt the existence of a physical, human Jesus. However, there's still no evidence that he's a messiah, or that he holds any spiritual significance. I don't trust anything the bible says because it has been rewritten millions of times. The possibility that someone added the prophecies after they have occurred is very real.

Even if the Christian mythology were true, I would not follow it's teachings.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
It is much like many of the ancient stories: did the battle of Marathon actually occur? Any of the events recounted by Julius Caesar? The wars of the Vedic era? What evidence, beyond the stories of classical writers, do we actually have of many of these people and events from antiquity? Even if we do have some actual physical evidence of some event that matches the story, is that any guarantee that the story is true? Just because we find evidence of the city of Troy and that there was once a great battle there, does that mean the events recounted in Homer actually occurred, just the way he said?

Now then, if there were multiple independent accounts and artifacts of Jesus, for example...and by independent I mean not associated with the Christian church of the first century CE or later...that supports the story--but the details are still undocumented, must be taken on faith. Most of the events of Jesus' life and his supposed deeds would not even have been part of temporary records of the time. It's difficult enough to prove the deeds and sayings of people today, much less a century ago, much less two millennia ago...
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
And since David wrote it (as we can see from the title), it would have happened way before Jesus was even a twinkle in a soldiers eye.

I would have given you a "Like" on this post, but this comment was, all things considered unnecessary.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Hello everyone. This is my first. Please don't hate. I've come not just to establish an old-fashioned debate, but to help some people establish some faith and maybe help someone through a tough time. First off, obviously, the debate is going to be centered around Jesus, the existence of Him (I say Him because it is my OP, and it is my personal beliefs that He is God) as God, as well as the Son of God, as well as overwhelming historical, theological, archaeological, and scientific evidence favoring the proof of God. Let's start with the simple one.

#1: The Scripture

Now, this is an obvious one. Obviously the Scriptures. I know, it's not the best start, but it's laying down the foundations. Let's start with the prophecies.

The Messiah will be the offspring (descendant) of the woman (Eve) Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4
The Messiah will be a descendant of Abraham, through whom everyone on earth will be blessed Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Acts 3:25,26
The Messiah will be a descendant of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:2 and Luke 3:33
The Messiah will be a prophet like Moses Deuteronomy 18:15-19 Acts 3:22,23
The Messiah will be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
The Messiah will be raised from the dead (resurrected) Psalm 16:10,11 Matthew 28:5-9; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:4-7; John 20:11-16; Acts 1:3 and 2:32
The Messiah crucifixion experience Psalm 22 (contains 11 prophecies—not all listed here) Matthew 27:34-50 and John 19:17-30
The Messiah will be sneered at and mocked Psalm 22:7 Luke 23:11,35-39
The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39;
John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27
The Messiah’s bones will not be broken (a person’s legs were usually broken after being crucified to speed up their death) Psalm 22:17 and 34:20 John 19:31-33,36
Men Will Gamble for the Messiah’s clothing Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23,24
The Messiah will accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:59,60 and Mark 14:56,57
The Messiah will be hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 and 69:4 John 15:23-25
The Messiah will be betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 John 13:18,21
The Messiah will ascend to heaven (at the right hand of God) Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9; 2:33-35; 3:20-21; 5:31,32; 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20,21; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet 3:22 . . . list goes on an on.
The Messiah will be given vinegar and gall to drink Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23; John 19:29,30
Great kings will pay homage and tribute to the Messiah Psalm 72:10,11 Matthew 2:1-11
The Messiah is a “stone the builders rejected” who will become the “head cornerstone” Psalm 118:22,23 and Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42,43; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-8
The Messiah will be a descendant of David Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16 Luke 1:32,33
The Messiah will be a born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
The Messiah’s first spiritual work will be in Galilee Isaiah 9:1-7 Matthew 4:12-16
The Messiah will make the blind see, the deaf hear, etc. Isaiah 35:5-6 Many places. Also see Matthew 11:3-6 and John 11:47
The Messiah will be beaten, mocked, and spat upon Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67 and 27:26-31
The “Gospel according to Isaiah” Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
People will hear and not believe the “arm of the LORD” (Messiah) Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37,38
The Messiah will be rejected Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 27:20-25; Mark 15:8-14; Luke 23:18-23; John 19:14,15
The Messiah will be killed Isaiah 53:5-9 Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37-39; Luke 23:46; John 19:30
The Messiah will be silent in front of his accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 26:62,63 and 27:12-14
The Messiah will be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:59,60; Mark 15:46; Luke 23:52,53; John 19:38-42
The Messiah will be crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32,33
The Messiah is part of the new and everlasting covenant Isaiah 55:3-4 and Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13
The Messiah will be our intercessor (intervene for us and plead on our behalf) Isaiah 59:16 Hebrews 9:15
The Messiah has two missions Isaiah 61:1-3 (first mission ends at “. . . year of the LORD’s favor”) First mission: Luke 4:16-21; Second mission: to be fulfilled at the end of the world
The Messiah will come at a specific time Daniel 9:25-26 Galatians 4:4 and Ephesians 1:10
The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:4-7
The Messiah will enter Jerusalem riding a donkey Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:1-11
The Messiah will be sold for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12,13 Matthew 26:15 with Matthew 27:3-10
The Messiah will forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7 Matthew 26:31,56
The Messiah will enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1 Matthew 21:12 and Luke 19:45
Just as point of logic: Remarks made after the fact, particularly those appearing in the New Testament in reference to Jesus, do not qualify as prophecies. And, it must be remembered that scriptures, NT scriptures in particular, were chosen for inclusion in the Bible because they confirmed (either literally or through changing the wording of the Tanakh) or at least did not contradict the message determined by those trying to establish its legitimacy. The construction of the Bible was not an unbiased undertaking.


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columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I do not doubt the existence of a physical, human Jesus.
I don't see how anyone could.
The name we spell Jesus is the anglicized version of the Latin version of the Greek version of an Aramaic name that was very common in 1st century Judea.
Saying there was no Jesus is like saying there is no Jim in contemporary USA.
Tom
 
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