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An Eruv near where I live - thoughts please.

Altfish

Veteran Member
I live very close to an area in the UK where the Jewish community wish to create a large eruv.

What are people's thoughts on this?

For those who do not know what an eruv is, it is basically a way of creating an artificial 'walled city' using posts and wire that allows the most orthodox of Jews to live almost normal lives on their Sabbath.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
I live very close to an area in the UK where the Jewish community wish to create a large eruv.

What are people's thoughts on this?

For those who do not know what an eruv is, it is basically a way of creating an artificial 'walled city' using posts and wire that allows the most orthodox of Jews to live almost normal lives on their Sabbath.
All it does is make it permissible to carry something outdoors. In Brooklyn where I grew up, many Jews hold by the opinion that its impossible to put an eiruv there so I grew up not even using it. They usually try to blend it in by using already present structures and such as much as possible. The string is placed fairly high up out of sight, so its not something noticeable really unless you go out of your way to look for it.

It doesn't create a walled city as that's only relevant for which day of Purim you keep and it refers to cities that were already walled long ago. What it does is kind of combine (eiruv means to mix) all the properties of a certain type of land status into private property.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Now now you two not everyone knows what an Eruv is and OP probably read it on some news site.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
It doesn't create a walled city as that's only relevant for which day of Purim you keep and it refers to cities that were already walled long ago. What it does is kind of combine (eiruv means to mix) all the properties of a certain type of land status into private property.
I realise that, the phrase I used was..."...a way of creating an artificial 'walled city' using posts and wire..."
I didn't mean that it was like something that Trump would build.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Very helpful, instead of face palming why not explain it and educate me??

It is a major issue in my area, please explain why it will not affect me.
The issue is one of carrying on the sabbath. One is allowed (I am grossly oversimplifying complex law, please excuse) to carry within a "private" property as delineated by a surrounding wall. The rabbinic "wall" is, at a minimum, a string strung around an area. Communities, therefore, choose to put up a string/wire, often using poles and wires which already exist, to create this fictional "private property" so that people can carry permitted items on the sabbath.

The construction is minimal, the impact on those who don't abide by it as a law is non-existent. The only concern people have is that it, by making the community more convenient for religious Jews, will encourage religious Jews to move in.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
The only concern people have is that it, by making the community more convenient for religious Jews, will encourage religious Jews to move in.
Oh, so that's the problem. I was wondering what possible problem someone could have.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Oh, so that's the problem. I was wondering what possible problem someone could have.
There were huge fights in certain areas because the non-religious Jews saw it as attracting religious Jews who

a) made them feel less Jewish
b) changed the make up of the town government
c) made the place seem less "nice" to live in

others see it as an entanglement of government into religion by having the government endorse the law of eiruv.

Off the top of my head...
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
an article which includes a picture of why it is hard to see an eiruv

http://wamu.org/programs/metro_conn...tect_boundaries_and_traditions_for_local_jews

(not endorsing everything about the article)
The poles and wire don't bother me, they will be lost in the existing telegraph poles and lampposts. It is the likely change of character of the area.
The area is mixed we have Jews, Muslims, Christians, no-believers, etc. all living together with no favouritism given to any creed or culture. The creation of the eruv will encourage Jews to move to the area, it will become an enclave.
There was one created in the Prestwich area of north Manchester; over 10,000 Jews now inhabit the area with 20 synagogues. Many shops shut on Saturday, try buying none kosher meat in the area.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
The poles and wire don't bother me, they will be lost in the existing telegraph poles and lampposts. It is the likely change of character of the area.
The area is mixed we have Jews, Muslims, Christians, no-believers, etc. all living together with no favouritism given to any creed or culture. The creation of the eruv will encourage Jews to move to the area, it will become an enclave.
There was one created in the Prestwich area of north Manchester; over 10,000 Jews now inhabit the area with 20 synagogues. Many shops shut on Saturday, try buying none kosher meat in the area.
Yes, it would be horrible to have so many Jews and synagogues, and the imposition of making it difficult to buy non-kosher meat is a sorry state, indeed.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Oh, so that's the problem. I was wondering what possible problem someone could have.
Personally, I have concerns with the idea of private individuals climbing utility poles or hanging things on them. It would be easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to get hurt or to hurt someone else.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Personally, I have concerns with the idea of private individuals climbing utility poles or hanging things on them. It would be easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to get hurt or to hurt someone else.
Because there are numerous halachic (of Jewish Law) matters involved, the community usually calls in someone who has experience in hanging them up to set it up.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
others see it as an entanglement of government into religion by having the government endorse the law of eiruv.
I can see that angle.

If you're putting stuff on poles without the pole owner's permission, that's a problem.

If the pole owner is a government and it's supporting and endorsing a religion by granting permission, that's a problem, too.

I agree that the erev tends to be nondescript from the ground: when I was staying in a hotel in Montreal, I would never have noticed the string if it weren't for a notice on the hotel desk warning patrons that only the back door of the hotel, and not the front door, leads into the erev - that prompted me to look for it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Because there are numerous halachic (of Jewish Law) matters involved, the community usually calls in someone who has experience in hanging them up to set it up.
Being an expert in Jewish law doesn't help you know how close you can get to a high-voltage line without being in danger.
 
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