What Are Muslims in Your Country Like?

[Debater Slayer]

I'm asking this question because I'm seriously approaching the point of distrusting Muslims as a religious group overall—that is, to the point of distrusting most Muslims. Just now I was looking at comments (in Arabic) on an article about the Orlando shooting, and on top of the fact that the article referred to the gay nightclub as a "deviant nightclub," many of the comments celebrated the incident and called the shooter "a true man."

I would just like to know how most Muslims are in the U.S. or, if you are from another Western country, how most Muslims are in your country—the ones you have met and known, at least.

I'm not going to criticize Muslims or Islam in this thread, because I might let out more cynicism than I would like and because I would rather not criticize either at this particular sensitive time. I'm just trying to gain understanding because I'm quite jaded due to my experiences with the vast majority of Muslims I have ever met, including relatively "moderate" ones.

And what bothers me as much or possibly more is when I see far-left liberals defending Islam and Muslims in general, even Muslims in the Muslim world who express sentiments like what I mentioned above, instead of acknowledging any problems whatsoever with either. It's one thing to refuse to criticize Islam and certain (albeit very large groups of) Muslims for the time being (which is what I'm doing or at least trying to do right now) or to even remain neutral overall, but to defend both?

Yeah, I need some more perspective here primarily out of sheer need to curb jadedness and cynicism. Reading those comments quite literally made me sick in my stomach, and I'm trying not to fall for such general distrust toward such a large religious group.

 

[Father Heathen]

The only Muslims I've actually known personally were co-workers from many years ago (~15). One was a Shia Iraqi who immigrated as a refugee during the early 90's. He was a very kind, friendly, lighthearted guy. Everyone got a long with him. He prayed at work when the time called for it and he observed halal diet, but he also dated a non-muslim girl who had tattoos. Didn't strike me as very strict or extreme at all. The other guy was also friendly and always joked around. I believe he was from UAE. I think he was even less devout. One day he was staring at a vending machine that had items such as soup and sandwiches. He was looking at one in particular and he turned to me and asked "Ey Vill, what kinda sandvich is that?" "Oh, well that's pork." He stares at it a while longer. "**** it, I'm hungry." And there was another at the same place, from Yemen, who was very friendly but kinda odd. Every day he would greet me like "Ah, Will, my bestest friend. One day you're be president." Or "One day I'll buy you a drum set." and he would like pick up loose debris like wood chips or paraffin shavings and just chew on them. Or he would be walking along, then stop regardless of where he happened to be, slightly stoop and arch his back, then let loose with some flatulence, then causally continue strolling along like nothing happened. Sometimes he body odor was so bad it was gag inducing.
More recently I've worked with two Egyptians, but they were christian (I presume Coptic). Very polite and humble guys.

 

[lovesong]

It may be because of the school I went to, my particular neighborhood, or any number of things, but I have only gotten to know a few Muslims, or at least people that I knew were Muslim. Although one girl I knew was very rude, most of them seemed like perfectly fine people. In fact, one of my closest friends at college is most likely Muslim (he never explicitly said it, but his parents are immigrants from a country that is over 99% Muslim according to google, so it's a fair assumption). On a side note, I saw a woman wearing a burqa for the first time in person today! I don't know whether to be ashamed that I haven't experienced that kind of diversity or glad that burqas are so uncommon around here (hijabs are pretty common in surrounding neighborhoods, so it's not for a lack of Muslim presence).

 

[Debater Slayer]

The only Muslims I've actually known personally were co-workers from many years ago (~15). One was a Shia Iraqi who immigrated as a refugee during the early 90's. He was a very kind, friendly, lighthearted guy. Everyone got a long with him. He prayed at work when the time called for it and he observed halal diet, but he also dated a non-muslim girl who had tattoos. Didn't strike me as very strict or extreme at all. The other guy was also friendly and always joked around. I believe he was from UAE. I think he was even less devout. One day he was staring at a vending machine that had items such as soup and sandwiches. He was looking at one in particular and he turned to me and asked "Ey Vill, what kinda sandvich is that?" "Oh, well that's pork." He stares at it a while longer. "**** it, I'm hungry." And there was another at the same place, from Yemen, who was very friendly but kinda odd. Every day he would greet me like "Ah, Will, my bestest friend. One day you're be president." Or "One day I'll buy you a drum set." and he would like pick up loose debris like wood chips or paraffin shavings and just chew on them. Or he would be walking along, then stop regardless of where he happened to be, slightly stoop and arch his back, then let loose with some flatulence, then causally continue strolling along like nothing happened. Sometimes he body odor was so bad it was gag inducing.
More recently I've worked with two Egyptians, but they were christian (I presume Coptic). Very polite and humble guys.

Very funny stuff there... especially "**** it. I'm hungry."

All of them sound quite easygoing. I like that.

 

[Father Heathen]

As far as seeing Muslims out and about in public, it's fairly common here (it's a fairly diverse metropolitan area), but they don't bother anyone and no one pays them any mind. They just blend into the fabric like everyone else.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It may be because of the school I went to, my particular neighborhood, or any number of things, but I have only gotten to know a few Muslims, or at least people that I knew were Muslim. Although one girl I knew was very rude, most of them seemed like perfectly fine people. In fact, one of my closest friends at college is most likely Muslim (he never explicitly said it, but his parents are immigrants from a country that is over 99% Muslim according to google, so it's a fair assumption).

Thanks! How devout would you say most Muslims you have known are?

On a side note, I saw a woman wearing a burqua for the first time in person today! I don't know whether to be ashamed that I haven't experienced that kind of diversity or glad that burquas are so uncommon around here (hijabs are pretty common in surrounding neighborhoods, so it's not for a lack of Muslim presence).

Are niqabs common at all (as opposed to burqas)?

 

[Debater Slayer]

As far as seeing Muslims out and about in public, it's fairly common here (it's a fairly diverse metropolitan area), but they don't bother anyone and no one pays them any mind. They just blend into the fabric like everyone else.

Have you gotten the chance to know how a lot of them feel about issues like same-sex marriage, gender equality, etc.?

 

[LuisDantas]

Muslims here in Brazil tend to be rather discreet and keep to themselves.

Most have a strong link to immigration, and often have a hard time with Brazilian Portuguese (or their recent ancestors do). Conversion to Islam isn't really very frequent here except as part of marriage plans, from what I have seen. And yes, they do at the same time reassure us that Muslim women are free to marry as they please and that it is unproper for a Muslima to marry a non-Muslim. That seems to have led to the existence of "non-practicing" Muslims, although I would not know how many and I have some reason to believe that it is a thorny subject matter.

To a very large extent, it is still an ethnic belief here, even in this land that seems to dissolve ethnical boundaries rather quickly (one of the very few Brazilian traits that I am proud of, mind you).

I don't think conversion to Islam is very frequent at all here. Personal communication gives me reason to believe that Shia/Sunni tensions are very much a reality even here, to a significant extent due to the Muttah practice - which, it must be said, is not seen with any particular sympathy by either side, but is still perceived at least sometimes as a somewhat Halal form for young Muslims to deal with their carnal desires. As is to be expected, that is not all that reassuring to their parents. In practice, it seems that Brazilian Muslimas are largely expected to marry while still virgins. Remarriage after divorce seems to be technically possible, but strongly discouraged. Actually, I get the sense that Muslims in Brazil are more confused by the idea of remarriage after divorce and its likely consequences then truly inclined to seriously consider it.

Overall, they feel a lot like particularly traditional theists with a strong attachment to traditional family roles and to the Qur'an. I somewhat trust that it is because that is what they tend to be.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I live in Columbus, Ohio.

We have a very large immigrant population from all over the world. The Muslims we have here are mostly from Somalia, North African countries, the Middle East and Pakistan along with American converts. They're very diverse. The Arab Muslims are mostly more Westernized, I've noticed. Many of the Pakistanis are more Westernized, too. A lot of the women don't even wear the veil. The Arabs are pretty cool. At the smoke shop I go to, it's run by a Palestinian from East Jerusalem and his family. He's a great guy and his family is awesome. The African Muslim community tends to be more conservative and relatively insular. They tend to keep to themselves but aren't a threat. Sometimes they're rude and there's tensions between them and other groups in mixed neighborhoods (a lot of black and white people in my area do not like them at all), but that's about it. I've noticed some women wearing the niqab and that does bother me. The hijab doesn't bother me at all, though.

 

[Shimi]

It makes me so sad to hear this. Hopefully I can help ease your distrust and disgust.

I play cricket, which here in the US is generally played by mostly Muslims and Hindus (religiously speaking). So I have met my fare share of Muslims in real life, as well as a few here on RF. Virtually all of those I have met have come across to me as good people. They are kind, caring, and generally just fun to be around. I have found them to be more friendly than most Americans, and I do not say that lightly.

I know this is just my experience, but I do hope it helps.

 

[Father Heathen]

Have you gotten the chance to know how a lot of them feel about issues like same-sex marriage, gender equality, etc.?

I haven't.

 

[lovesong]

Thanks! How devout would you say most Muslims you have known are?



Are niqabs common at all (as opposed to burqas)?

The one Muslim girl that I mentioned was rude was pretty devout until midway through high school, when she traded her hijab for a miniskirt and the high school drinking scene. I've never known any very devout Muslims personally, and my friend observes none of the rules. He drinks, smokes (weed), does other similar activities, I've seen him eat many pork chops over the course of the year as well! And no, I've never seen anyone wearing a niqab around here either, which is why the burqa surprised me today! Maybe they would be more common going into the city though.

Edit: Wait! I have seen a niqab in person! One time I saw a woman in a niqab in the mall, the memory just slipped my mind because she was wearing a denim jacket over it. Wouldn't that just counteract the whole purpose since it reveled her figure and was less modest?

 

[jeager106]

I've met only a few Muslims here in N.E. Ohio.
They, like me, were in recovery from alcohol addiction.
That deadly condition made us all the same.
Religious differences mean nothing.
We all cared for one another.
Religion be damned.
People that suffer together are closer connected.
After A.A. meetings we all hold hands and pray together giving thanks
to our Higher Power for our sober lives.
We almost always refer to "God" as our Higher Power.
A Power greater than ourselves.
H.P. for short.

 

[idav]

I'm asking this question because I'm seriously approaching the point of distrusting Muslims as a religious group overall—that is, to the point of distrusting most Muslims. Just now I was looking at comments (in Arabic) on an article about the Orlando shooting, and on top of the fact that the article referred to the gay nightclub as a "deviant nightclub," many of the comments celebrated the incident and called the shooter "a true man."

I would just like to know how most Muslims are in the U.S. or, if you are from another Western country, how most Muslims are in your country—the ones you have met and known, at least.

I'm not going to criticize Muslims or Islam in this thread, because I might let out more cynicism than I would like and because I would rather not criticize either at this particular sensitive time. I'm just trying to gain understanding because I'm quite jaded due to my experiences with the vast majority of Muslims I have ever met, including relatively "moderate" ones.

And what bothers me as much or possibly more is when I see far-left liberals defending Islam and Muslims in general, even Muslims in the Muslim world who express sentiments like what I mentioned above, instead of acknowledging any problems whatsoever with either. It's one thing to refuse to criticize Islam and certain (albeit very large groups of) Muslims for the time being (which is what I'm doing or at least trying to do right now) or to even remain neutral overall, but to defend both?

Yeah, I need some more perspective here primarily out of sheer need to curb jadedness and cynicism. Reading those comments quite literally made me sick in my stomach, and I'm trying not to fall for such general distrust toward such a large religious group.

Honestly I thought it was a christian cause thats what we get a lot of around the four states around me. Florida, I think tourists so no telling. I hate that I am even thinking religion right away but I see a correlation that shouldn't be dismissed. Here in this country its 50% bigotry and the other 50% aren't as vocal, its like two different Jesus's.

 

[idav]

This is the kind of stuff we see a lot of.
In November 2015, Robert Lewis Dear killed three and injured nine at the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado.[119]
November 29, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect was apprehended.
September 4, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.[I 51]

 

[StarryNightshade]

Unfortunately, I haven't spoken to many muslims personally, so I don't have a large frame of reference. However, there are two I'd like to mention.

One was the Imam at the mosque back at home. Very nice guy, humble, devout, and just wanted what was best for his congregation. He's Syrian and is horrified with what's going on over there and thoroughly condemns ISIS with every fiber of his being. However, he is still vey conservative theologically and socially; speaking on the deviance of LGBT and how one must do everything right to please God and get into heaven. Still, with that said, even if he believed it to be sinful, he never condoned any violence against anyone.

Another was an Iraqi Shia girl who I met a couple of weekends ago. She immigrated to the US to attend university and was an amazing person to talk to. She's pro-LGBT, pro-woman's rights, pro-secularism, and pretty much pro-anything that wasn't allowed in Iraq. While she doesn't practice Islam that strictly (she didn't fast or pray often, but still wore hijab) she still identifies as muslim and said that living outside of a place which enforced the religion has made her faith stronger.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Muslims here in Brazil tend to be rather discreet and keep to themselves.

Most have a strong link to immigration, and often have a hard time with Brazilian Portuguese (or their recent ancestors do). Conversion to Islam isn't really very frequent here except as part of marriage plans, from what I have seen. And yes, they do at the same time reassure us that Muslim women are free to marry as they please and that it is unproper for a Muslima to marry a non-Muslim. That seems to have led to the existence of "non-practicing" Muslims, although I would not know how many and I have some reason to believe that it is a thorny subject matter.

To a very large extent, it is still an ethnic belief here, even in this land that seems to dissolve ethnical boundaries rather quickly (one of the very few Brazilian traits that I am proud of, mind you).

I don't think conversion to Islam is very frequent at all here. Personal communication gives me reason to believe that Shia/Sunni tensions are very much a reality even here, to a significant extent due to the Muttah practice - which, it must be said, is not seen with any particular sympathy by either side, but is still perceived at least sometimes as a somewhat Halal form for young Muslims to deal with their carnal desires. As is to be expected, that is not all that reassuring to their parents. In practice, it seems that Brazilian Muslimas are largely expected to marry while still virgins. Remarriage after divorce seems to be technically possible, but strongly discouraged. Actually, I get the sense that Muslims in Brazil are more confused by the idea of remarriage after divorce and its likely consequences then truly inclined to seriously consider it.

Overall, they feel a lot like particularly traditional theists with a strong attachment to traditional family roles and to the Qur'an. I somewhat trust that it is because that is what they tend to be.

From the Muslims you have met, how many would you say are devout believers in the sense of adopting mainstream Islamic teachings on things like same-sex marriage, gender equality, etc.? Those are the main issues I'm wondering about, because it has been my experience that even most relatively moderate Muslims can be very rigid when it comes to those particular issues. I'm wondering if things are very different outside the Middle East.

 

[suncowiam]

They tend to be very good at soccer.

Hey, you asked!

 

[Debater Slayer]

The one Muslim girl that I mentioned was rude was pretty devout until midway through high school, when she traded her hijab for a miniskirt and the high school drinking scene. I've never known any very devout Muslims personally, and my friend observes none of the rules. He drinks, smokes (weed), does other similar activities, I've seen him eat many pork chops over the course of the year as well! And no, I've never seen anyone wearing a niqab around here either, which is why the burqa surprised me today! Maybe they would be more common going into the city though.

Edit: Wait! I have seen a niqab in person! One time I saw a woman in a niqab in the mall, the memory just slipped my mind because she was wearing a denim jacket over it. Wouldn't that just counteract the whole purpose since it reveled her figure and was less modest?

I'm not sure it would counteract the purpose of niqab; I've rarely seen it done here too. I don't know for sure, though.

Thanks for your answer.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It makes me so sad to hear this. Hopefully I can help ease your distrust and disgust.

I play cricket, which here in the US is generally played by mostly Muslims and Hindus (religiously speaking). So I have met my fare share of Muslims in real life, as well as a few here on RF. Virtually all of those I have met have come across to me as good people. They are kind, caring, and generally just fun to be around. I have found them to be more friendly than most Americans, and I do not say that lightly.

I know this is just my experience, but I do hope it helps.

Thanks! Yes, it helps give me additional perspective.

Just curious: Are the Muslims who play cricket mostly from Pakistan and India? I know cricket is pretty popular there.