comments on the Qur'an whether good or bad

[anonymous9887]

Still avoiding the topic. It doesn't matter what he planned first. He allowed evil and knowingly created a creation which will choose evil.

You suffer the problem of evil just like everyone else. Islam actually offers the answers.

Also to be very honest, again I think god has control over his foreknowledge powers, as in he can use it as he sees fit. So he respects free will, but at the same time he knows it's possible that man could obey. Of course god can choose to look into his unlimited foreknowledge when he chooses to.

 

[firedragon]

1. The scripture you quoted was from leviticus, so that was towards the assembly of the Israelites. You have to remember also that Jehovah was way more active back then, when he would appear to them by angels and the many deliverances. So the more proof there is the more responsibility you have because you have experienced more.
2. What paul said is correct they will not inherit the kingdom. But there are individuals that didn't hear the kingdom message, so they will probably receive a resurrection from the dead. There are many reason why one might be pardoned, but in general if people have evidence of a god and they love the darkness rather then the light, that is on them, but even still, god will consider each individuals circumstances, everyone is different. Also there are several occasions in the OT were Jehovah did proclaim his name in the entire earth. So people did hear about his mighty acts, but chose to rebel, as well as some surrendered to the Israelites.

However, the bible pronounces death sentence to Homosexuals. Thats the bottom line. All this explanations do not negate that.

If humans inherited a sinful nature because of Adam and eve, then as per the bible the women will suffer more. The serpent will crawl on his stomach and eat dirt. Did he not crawl on his stomach earlier when he was created? And when did serpents eat dirt?

We should all inherit sin equally right. Then why does the bible (e.g. 1 Corinthians) degrade women this way?

"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man"

And that is after Jesus dying for our sins.

 

[anonymous9887]

However, the bible pronounces death sentence to Homosexuals. Thats the bottom line. All this explanations do not negate that.

If humans inherited a sinful nature because of Adam and eve, then as per the bible the women will suffer more. The serpent will crawl on his stomach and eat dirt. Did he not crawl on his stomach earlier when he was created? And when did serpents eat dirt?

We should all inherit sin equally right. Then why does the bible (e.g. 1 Corinthians) degrade women this way?

"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man"

And that is after Jesus dying for our sins.

1. This is not an actual serpent, this is satan, he is referred to as the serpent revelation 12:9.
2. This is to show respect for the headship arrangement and this is only for worship. God created woman as a compliment to the man's work, the man should treat her with respect, but the man has a responsibility as the head, and that shows respect for the man's authority, and is only for spiritual activities.

 

[anonymous9887]

However, the bible pronounces death sentence to Homosexuals. Thats the bottom line. All this explanations do not negate that.

If humans inherited a sinful nature because of Adam and eve, then as per the bible the women will suffer more. The serpent will crawl on his stomach and eat dirt. Did he not crawl on his stomach earlier when he was created? And when did serpents eat dirt?

We should all inherit sin equally right. Then why does the bible (e.g. 1 Corinthians) degrade women this way?

"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man"

And that is after Jesus dying for our sins.

Yes it pronounces death for unrepentant homosexuals.
And there was more of a reason to in leviticus.

 

[firedragon]

Yes it pronounces death for unrepentant homosexuals.
And there was more of a reason to in leviticus.

Does it say unrepentant homosexuals?

What about the women in 1st letter to the Corinthians.

And whats the reason in leviticus etc.

Paul, I do not wish to go on like this. Just that you seem to not answer any of these problems directly. No problem, but you can say something conclusive.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

1. This is not an actual serpent, this is satan, he is referred to as the serpent revelation 12:9.
2. This is to show respect for the headship arrangement and this is only for worship. God created woman as a compliment to the man's work, the man should treat her with respect, but the man has a responsibility as the head, and that shows respect for the man's authority, and is only for spiritual activities.

1. I know that it was the satan Paul. But then why would God say that forever the serpent will crawl on his stomach and eat dirt? Alright, lets leave it at that.
2. Aman ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. - 1 Corinthians 11:7.

Its fine, lets just drop this.

Paul, so far I have not come across anyone who gives a proper solution for the question of Theodicy. You cant especially talk about from the biblical narrative.

 

[anonymous9887]

1. I know that it was the satan Paul. But then why would God say that forever the serpent will crawl on his stomach and eat dirt? Alright, lets leave it at that.
2. Aman ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. - 1 Corinthians 11:7.

Its fine, lets just drop this.

Paul, so far I have not come across anyone who gives a proper solution for the question of Theodicy. You cant especially talk about from the biblical narrative.

I gave you answers, and it is the best answer next to god doing this on purpose to us.

 

[anonymous9887]

Does it say unrepentant homosexuals?

What about the women in 1st letter to the Corinthians.

And whats the reason in leviticus etc.

Paul, I do not wish to go on like this. Just that you seem to not answer any of these problems directly. No problem, but you can say something conclusive.

Peace.

I am answering your questions, but I refuse to isolate a scripture from the entire message. You want me to isolate a scripture, and that's not the way it's done scripture interprets scripture.

 

[firedragon]

I am answering your questions, but I refuse to isolate a scripture from the entire message. You want me to isolate a scripture, and that's not the way it's done scripture interprets scripture.

You are right. No one should isolate scripture. But the bible has at least 40 authors. Depends on which bible, and how deep you dig into. Each author is different. Has a different theology. So, what are you supposed to do? If you take the whole bible as one scripture, alright, how about the completely contrasting teachings then?

Let me ask you again, if we all inherited original sin, till Jesus redeemed us, why did God discriminate human beings with defects?

 

[anonymous9887]

Does it say unrepentant homosexuals?

What about the women in 1st letter to the Corinthians.

And whats the reason in leviticus etc.

Paul, I do not wish to go on like this. Just that you seem to not answer any of these problems directly. No problem, but you can say something conclusive.

Peace.

1 corinthians 6:9-11

 

[firedragon]

1 corinthians 6:9-11

What about the Leviticus narrative. Unrepentant? I told you that Homosexuals are given the death penalty. That is in Leviticus. It does not say unrepentant. But you quote me 1 Corinthians.

Also, in Corinthians, it does not say unrepentant. I know some translations have added certain words to escape insults but in the Greek scripture that is not there. What about Malakoi or soft men?

 

[anonymous9887]

You are right. No one should isolate scripture. But the bible has at least 40 authors. Depends on which bible, and how deep you dig into. Each author is different. Has a different theology. So, what are you supposed to do? If you take the whole bible as one scripture, alright, how about the completely contrasting teachings then?

Let me ask you again, if we all inherited original sin, till Jesus redeemed us, why did God discriminate human beings with defects?

I'll answer, but I'm at work, so I'll try to answer asap

 

[firedragon]

I'll answer, but I'm at work, so I'll try to answer asap

Sure Paul. No worries at all. And you dont need to be so nice, you can just answer when ever you feel like. Though anyone will appreciate your mannerisms.

Cheers mate. And Peace.

 

[David1967]

Yes I am putting how comparing how the god of the bible deals with the people and how the god of the Qur'an deals with the people.
The bibles god(not all denominations have the same beliefs)
But I can show you my beliefs with the bible.
1. He created everything good.
2. He created humans perfect
3. He originally planned a paradise for us
4. Our God does not test us with evil
5. Gehenna is figurative, if we do not make it we will not be tortured eternally. We will be asleep (so to speak) forever.
6. His plan makes perfect sense in the 1000 year reign.

The Qur'an makes or maybe it's the people making him sound like a tyrant.

Paul, With all due respect. That's not an entirely fair statement about the Quran. Some people may indeed make God sound like a tyrant, but from what I've read, the God of the Quran seems (to me anyway) much like the God of our Old Testament. As far as your opinion that God doesn't test us with evil. The book of Job tells of a pretty harsh test.

 

[firedragon]

Paul, With all due respect. That's not an entirely fair statement about the Quran. Some people may indeed make God sound like a tyrant, but from what I've read, the God of the Quran seems (to me anyway) much like the God of our Old Testament. As far as your opinion that God doesn't test us with evil. The book of Job tells of a pretty harsh test.

If I may, Ill show you the difference between the portrayal of God in the OT vs the Quran.

Old Testament.

Read Numbers chapter 31.

The LORD said to Moses, “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites.After that, you will be gathered to your people.” So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the LORD’s vengeance on them.

Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.”So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Vengeance. Plunder. Total annihilation. Murder of all married women and non virgins, save the virgins only. All the boys should be killed. Wonder why the virgins are saved!

Quran.

War is only allowed if you are not the aggressor. You are supposed fight for those who are oppressed. Or those who break a treaty etc. You have to have just cause. Even then when your enemy ceases their oppression, you are to stop and be merciful. You are allowed to fight only until there is no more persecution.



And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not aggress, God does not love the aggressors. And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters. And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is for God. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked. -Quran 2:190-193

You can see that the Quran does not tell you to be the victim but it establishes that you must not be the aggressor. You are allowed to fight back if someone aggressively fights with you. But even then, you are asked to forgive and cease fighting if the enemy seizes his fight. You are allowed to fight only until the persecution stops.

You must fight if someone is weak, being persecuted and are oppressed.

And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak among the men and women and children say: “Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from yourself a Supporter, and grant us from yourself a Victor!” - Quran 4:75

One example.

 

[anonymous9887]

Paul, With all due respect. That's not an entirely fair statement about the Quran. Some people may indeed make God sound like a tyrant, but from what I've read, the God of the Quran seems (to me anyway) much like the God of our Old Testament. As far as your opinion that God doesn't test us with evil. The book of Job tells of a pretty harsh test.

Ok I agree it can seem that way. But the truth is understanding why god acted as he did, and did the people receive warning. I have studied the god of the old testament, and everything done is reasonable although I am still studying certain questions.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have asked my questions
1. Did god create everything good yes or no?
2. Can a human being be perfect, stand sinless before god? If so provide evidence and person.
3. Did god create us incapable of being perfect, or are we capable of it? Again please provide evidence even in the Qur'an.

Since you are Bible reader, what answer did you get from the Bible of your questions. Please
Regards

 

[anonymous9887]

What about the Leviticus narrative. Unrepentant? I told you that Homosexuals are given the death penalty. That is in Leviticus. It does not say unrepentant. But you quote me 1 Corinthians.

Also, in Corinthians, it does not say unrepentant. I know some translations have added certain words to escape insults but in the Greek scripture that is not there. What about Malakoi or soft men?

Read vs 11 it says that what some of you were.
1. You are applying what applied to the nation of israel to the standard of the entire word bad exegesis with all do respect.

 

[anonymous9887]

Since you are Bible reader, what answer did you get from the Bible of your questions. Please
Regards

Read the thread, I have mentioned it plenty of times. If you have specific questions of things already stated please ask.

 

[firedragon]

One thing about the Bible, it is consistent, non-contrasting. From Genesis to Revelation.
What is 'contradicting', is the teachings, not the text. Ie, different churches with their own interpretations, so forth.

anyways, ''original sin'', is not in the Bible as you mean it. It is not ''inherited sin''.

Not contradicting?
Alright, lets see if I may.

I am the LORD, the God of the whole human race. Is anything too hard for me? - Jeremiah. (God is all powerful)
The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron. - Judges

That's just a contradicting view of God. I do not like to quote contradictions in the bible like that generally. Is it 4,000 or 40,000 stalls that Solomon had? But I would like to know what your theory is, why do we have that contradiction. One God, One prophet, two different stories. God would not make a mistake in any detail right? This is an irrevocable difference. Why do you think?

Then comes Jesus. He taught us the Kingdom of Heaven right. Starting from John the baptist in Matthew 3:2, then Jesus in Matthew 4:17 (From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”) among many examples from the Gospels.

But Paul teaches a different theology.
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace. - Acts 20:24.

That is only one verse.