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why would God reveal himself in texts?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
According to the Hebrew bible, only about 3000 people worshipped the golden calf out of the two-three million people that were at Sinai. Your error comes from paying more attention to a movie named "The Ten Commandments", than the actual bible.
So you're saying that Moses smashed the tablets engraved by God's own hand over the actions of 0.1% of the people assembled?
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
According to the Hebrew bible, only about 3000 people worshipped the golden calf out of the two-three million people that were at Sinai. Your error comes from paying more attention to a movie named "The Ten Commandments", than the actual bible.
I loves me some Cecil B. DeMille. However, in that movie, the earth swallows up the bad guys. This is from the bible:
Exodus 32: 25And when Moses saw that the people were broken loose, (for Aaron had let them loose for a derision among their enemies,) 26then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Whoso is on Jehovah’s side, let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. 27And he said unto them, Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, Put ye every man his sword upon his thigh, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. 28And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
So, Team Moses committed great bloodshed for all the pro-cow folks, like I said.

So the "two-three million people" all read the account and signed off on it? ;)
And why does it sound like the story of King Josiah is telling us that everything other than a law book was made up? It was a law book the priests supposedly discovered in a wall, so where did the other books come from?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
We have one narrative because everyone agreed upon what they had experienced.


Don't you mean the king had the text redacted to meet his personal theistic agenda, based on a compilation of previous traditions most know as pseudohistory we know never took place?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
i mean back in the days when sacred texts were written how many people were actually able to read? like 1 in a 1000? less than that? it's the same as if in todays standards god would reveal his words in C++ computer code.
Peace be on you.
== Here is list of Books of various religions [to see how they began]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text#Sacred_texts_of_various_religions


== For Holy Quran, it was revealed in about 23 years, right from start the revelation was preserved by two methods:
""The Quran was revealed by God to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over a period of about 23 years. The revelations were conveyed to the Prophet in small segment by the angel Gabriel who made the Prophet recite the revealed verses in his presence.

From the very outset, the Prophet employed two independent but mutually complementary methods for preserving the revelations. The two methods used for this purpose were memorisation and inscription. Besides ensuring independently the transmission of the revelation, the two methods also served as internal checks, thus ensuring its accurate preservation.""
https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000054.html
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
And why does it sound like the story of King Josiah is telling us that everything other than a law book was made up? It was a law book the priests supposedly discovered in a wall, so where did the other books come from?

You seriously think that the entire population of Jews had just one single copy of the bible. Most Jews didn't even live close to Jerusalem. How could they all be reading daily Torah portions if they had to travel over a day to get to that one single book? Plus wouldn't it be a bit crowded, having thousands of Jews huddled around trying to read that one single book? I mean, just use a little logic here.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You seriously think that the entire population of Jews had just one single copy of the bible. Most Jews didn't even live close to Jerusalem. How could they all be reading daily Torah portions if they had to travel over a day to get to that one single book? Plus wouldn't it be a bit crowded, having thousands of Jews huddled around trying to read that one single book? I mean, just use a little logic here.

The books evolved yes. But these writings were sacred to these people. And King Josiah probably did have his monotheistic reforms.

And we know the text took on major redactions during this period.


So Kelley is actually making great points.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
You seriously think that the entire population of Jews had just one single copy of the bible. Most Jews didn't even live close to Jerusalem. How could they all be reading daily Torah portions if they had to travel over a day to get to that one single book? Plus wouldn't it be a bit crowded, having thousands of Jews huddled around trying to read that one single book? I mean, just use a little logic here.
I missed where there were ancient Jewish publishing houses. They didn't find that scroll/law book in some random dude's bedroom wall ... it was a priest's, IIRC. We are so used to ubiquitous literary presence that we forget it took years to make even a single book.
History of Printing
History of Scribes
Early writing
Before the printing press
Not only were books rare because of the time it took to make them, but not only the audience but many copiers were illiterate. Do you know the frustration of helping non-English speakers with corporate documentation, only to be told "what is 'a'"? Spanish uses the same alphabet English does, with some extra squiggly symbols as well. I had to help people who didn't know their own frickin' alphabet. You want me to believe that ancient people were highly literate with mass produced literature? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ten bucks says that the reason people kept worshipping other gods in the bible is that they never read the texts the priests made up in the first place.

edit:
I can see how this conversation went:
People: Yay, other gods!
Priest: No! You cannot have another god!
People: Uh ... we've been having this setup since before your granddaddy was born. What changed?
Priest: I have a sacred book.
People: Can we see it?
Priest: No, I'll just tell you what it says.
People *snatches scroll*: This is a bunch of squiggles.
Priest: IT IS A SACRED TEXT ... WORDS STRAIGHT FROM GOD'S MOUTH!
People: God doesn't need texts to talk to us. That's what "prayer" is for, as well as ritual and dreams an' stuff.
Priest: This is sacred!
People: We think the priests need to justify their paycheck again. Hence "texts" were invented to prove to us that squiggles equal divine mandate.
Priest: Kill them all!
People: Holy crap!
 
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Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If there are any deities interested in communicating with humans without any layers of confusion and to reach the largest possible audience, there are much better methods than what has been done previously.

As it stands now, some people claim divine revelation, then then those claimed revelations get passed down orally and then into texts. And now we have a bunch of texts, many of which contradict each other, or are demonstrably incorrect in some areas, or that in some cases advocate for types of genocide and things of that nature.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
If there are any deities interested in communicating with humans without any layers of confusion and to reach the largest possible audience, there are much better methods than what has been done previously.

As it stands now, some people claim divine revelation, then then those claimed revelations get passed down orally and then into texts. And now we have a bunch of texts, many of which contradict each other, or are demonstrably incorrect in some areas, or that in some cases advocate for types of genocide and things of that nature.

So true.

It also goes way beyond just that. We see the text in full as evolving human nature and only human nature in the text.

Nothing in any text shows any sign of higher power or intellect then humans.

It was written by humans, for humans, in human language and understanding, most of the time in rhetorical prose and obvious mythology, we can usually trace back to previous human traditions.


The beauty in these text and the epic nature that has made them stand the test of time, is because of its 100% human origin. People miss so much without a real education this passes over the top of most peoples heads. :(
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Because we don't have multiple versions of the Hebrew bible.

Do you mean the fact that Exodus is part of the Hebrew bible entails that everyone alive back then accepted the narrative ? What if the narrative was written many years after the events had transpired ?
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Do you mean the fact that Exodus is part of the Hebrew bible entails that everyone alive back then accepted the narrative ? What if the narrative was written many years after the events had transpired ?

What about it?
 
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